Ever win big using the Iron Cross strategy?
I bet $10 on the field, $10 on the 5, $18 on the 6, and $18 on the 8.
I profit $10-30 if a field number hits, $4 if the 5 hits, $11 if the 6 or 8 hits, and lose $56 if the 7 hits.
The house edge per roll ain't that bad... (0.46*36+1.11*10+2.78*10)/56 = 0.99%
I fear the 7 out, so I only bet the Iron Cross once every 3 or 4 rolls.
I know sitting out rolls won't change my odds of losing (1 in 6), but I seem to avoid the majority of 7 outs doing this! :)
After rolling dice on my bed thousands of times, I've managed to profit over $5K.
If I keep winning at home, I'll probably try this system at the tables and limit my bets to 2-3 rolls per shooter.
Anyone else have similar success at the tables using the Iron Cross?
I suggest quitting your day job and using this system full time before everyone catches on and the casino ban this system.
I should be able to make thousands per hour betting orange chips.
I just hope I don't get banned from casinos like Frank did!
Well that's simple just Don't slow down the game or cause trouble. Don't try to make a name for yourself. Casinos used the banning of high profile players because they knew the word would get out, this would make guys like you think its possible to DI and you would come running in the door.Quote: drjohnnyIf I can improve my DI skills to the point of matching Frank Scoblete's SRR of 1:10, I'll just use this system on my own rolls and not have to rely on others to make me money.
I should be able to make thousands per hour betting orange chips.
I just hope I don't get banned from casinos like Frank did!
Best thing that ever happens to games like BJ and craps is making the general public think its possible if you play good you can beat the house. The Best thing for writers and teachers to do is get banned. It seems to add some legitimacy to the DI BS. I'm sure a few guys looking to gain some credibility purposely tried to get banned.
If you are a good writer and can sell books, classes and promote yourself like frank did, then you might have something. SRR on a table at someones house never translates to a real casino environment. SRR numbers are just a bunch of luck.
Seriously don't quit your day job. Ask yourself why none of the great so called DIs play craps anymore.
Quote: drjohnnyI've been experimenting at home the last few days ...After rolling dice on my bed thousands of times
what is it with this? didn't you finally get Wincraps?
WOW! how did I miss this, Is this a joke?Quote: drjohnny
After rolling dice on my bed thousands of times, I've managed to profit over $5K.
I have no doubt you can influence dice on your bed. Sad part is... you are only up 5k. Unless your bed happens to be a craps table, I DON'T SEE THIS ENDING WELL FOR YOU.
Quote: drjohnnyI've been experimenting at home the last few days with the Iron Cross system.
The house edge per roll ain't that bad... (0.46*36+1.11*10+2.78*10)/56 = 0.99%
Fun with numbers.
Depending on the Site, the HE is either 1.136% or 3.87%.
Iron Cross
My WinCraps sims (12,000-1,000,000) always gets close to 3.87%.
Quote: TankoFun with numbers.
Depending on the Site, the HE is either 1.136% or 3.87%.
Iron Cross
My WinCraps sims (12,000-1,000,000) always gets close to 3.87%.
I get a slightly lower HE with my bets because I bet slightly more on the 6/8 and slightly less on the 5 when compared to the traditional Iron Cross.
If this strategy fails miserably at the tables, I'll try $5 pass line with continuous come bets and 20x odds whenever I see a skilled DI.
Quote: AxelWolfWOW! how did I miss this, Is this a joke?
I have no doubt you can influence dice on your bed. Sad part is... you are only up 5k. Unless your bed happens to be a craps table, I DON'T SEE THIS ENDING WELL FOR YOU.
I've been doing random throws for this experiment and avoiding most 7 outs by sitting out the majority of rolls.
Once I start practicing the Golden Touch Craps toss and eventually get my SRR up to Frank's level, I'll be able to bet every single roll with a huge advantage over the house!
Quote: drjohnnyIf I can improve my DI skills to the point of matching Frank Scoblete's SRR of 1:10, I'll just use this system on my own rolls and not have to rely on others to make me money.
You need to create a Gambling Guru to show you the way.
Frank penned "The Captain."
You could conjure up "Ironman."
Ah, how art imitates life: Grand Funk Railroad's "I'm Your Captain" vs. Black Sabbath's "Ironman."
There can be only one.
Quote: MrVYou need to create a Gambling Guru to show you the way.
Frank penned "The Captain."
You could conjure up "Ironman."
Ah, how art imitates life: Grand Funk Railroad's "I'm Your Captain" vs. Black Sabbath's "Ironman."
There can be only one.
I was thinking more along the lines of Supertramp's "Dreamer". Oh how I wish it were true.
He basically just bet everything but the seven and caught many lucky rolls while I watched.
He also told stories of making it to the final poker table even though he wasn't a poker player.
The guy was a skinny east indian dude, and his wife was there with him too.
His wife even had a long roll.
He was ANYTHING but a pro, and he was one of the luckiest players I have ever seen in my life that bet that much money.
But going back to the system, it stinks.
The Iron Cross is does one thing: it increases the frequency of getting paid on a given roll. That makes it fun. But it's not smart in the long run.
An edge per roll of 1% sucks even if you are a good DI, why give away 0.5% per roll even before getting to free bets?
If you actually do have an advantage, every fractional percentage edge per roll you give to the house matters.
I have seen people playing Iron Cross when the field has a 2/36 house edge and they STILL talk about it like they discovered the greatest thing ever.
Quote: AhighBut going back to the system, it stinks.
The Iron Cross is does one thing: it increases the frequency of getting paid on a given roll. That makes it fun. But it's not smart in the long run.
Well, if you go strictly by the math... playing craps in general is not smart in the long run since it's a -EV game.
Quote: drjohnnyWell, if you go strictly by the math... playing craps in general is not smart in the long run since it's a -EV game.
What else would you go by, if not "the math?"
Hunches?
Superstition?
Hope and a prayer?
Hope for variance in the short term, anticipate losing in the long run.
If I only have to bet $15 total on the pass line and come bets, the HE per roll should be reduced to (50*2.78+55*0.055+210*0.029)/315=0.47%.
There is an average seven-to-rolls ratio for each variation of the Iron Cross that will result in theoretical advantage play if one chooses to believe that the necessary SRR can be achieved.
It can be achieved in the short run (for example, less than 1,000 rolls).
But when you play this system long enough, it ends up costing you more money than putting more money on the odds and less money on field rolls and tips for "a good stick man."
Here's where this is a good betting system: when you are betting so little that it doesn't change your life except for having so much fun.
Many people who read internet forums on gambling are just taking the gambling too seriously to understand the goal to just want to have fun, though.
The Iron Cross can be fun, though. Try it at Joker's Wild if losing too much money with it is getting in the way of having fun. You will probably find guys at Joker's Wild using it in fact.
Quote: drjohnny
I get a slightly lower HE with my bets because I bet slightly more on the 6/8 and slightly less on the 5 when compared to the traditional Iron Cross.
That's because you're reducing the influence of the 4% HE on the 5, relative to the size of your 6 and 8 bets.
You can reduce the HE still further by betting less on the Field.
With that in mind, eliminating the 5 and Field bets all together will reduce the HE even more.
NoQuote: drjohnnyAnyone else have similar success at the tables using the Iron Cross?
I know there are other (many) Craps betting systems
that can double my starting bankroll more often (faster on average) and with a higher probability before complete ruin
than any iron cross system
using your idea with a $560 bank trying to turn it into $1120 is successful with a prob = 26.79% (damn yuck)
just better than 1 in 4, ah better is good (267,874 out of 1 million player attempts are successful on average)
with a $600 start bank
Just placing the 6&8 for $30 = 41.26%
placing the 6 or 8 for $60 = 43.16%
rounds = roll
proposed iron cross
some place bets 6 & 8 or 6 or 8 (oh, just flat betting too)
I never would use (for real money) any Craps betting system
that can not double any starting bankroll with less than a 40% success rate.
But do have some fun trying if you elect to try this out for the fun of it
try is very close to cry
Sally
https://www.math.umass.edu/~lr7q/ps_files/teaching/math456/Week4.pdf
Quote: drjohnnySo never then.You have a Better chance of sleeping with 3 supermodels just before finding Big Foot.Quote: Tanko
whenever I see a skilled DI.♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Something to be said of a complex game with lots and lots of bets, where you can easily palce bets so any outcome pays, is that people will keep looking for a way to beat the game.
It can't be beaten, of course, except by getting "lucky." Not because every combination has been calculated, but because all the bets have a house edge. I know the odds bet doesn't, but that one rides on the pass/come bet which does. And I know an odd casino here or there offers a field bet with zero HE, but that's the rare exception.
What are my chances of doubling a $3K bankroll at the tables if I bet $5 pass line and continuous come bets with 20x odds only on the 5/6/8/9?
Would it make any difference if I didn't ignore the 4/10 and took 20x odds on them too?
Quote: AxelWolfSo never then.You have a Better chance of sleeping with 3 supermodels just before finding Big Foot.
Your post appears to attribute a post to me that I did not make.
I never said "whenever I see a skilled DI".
That was said by drJohnny in his response to my earlier post.
Quote: drjohnnyIf this strategy fails miserably at the tables, I'll try $5 pass line with continuous come bets and 20x odds whenever I see a skilled DI.
yes it looks like I quoted you quoting him or something ill change it when I get to a computer.Quote: TankoYour post appears to attribute a post to me that I did not make.
I never said "whenever I see a skilled DI".
That was said by drJohnny in his response to my earlier post.
More fun with formatting codes. ;-)
Quote: drjohnnymustangsally, your charts depress me.
This is a depressing chart.
And just like the Wizard says "make sure you take your free odds" I gotta say "be careful with those fireworks, it's almost the fourth of July!"
Quote: drjohnnyI've been experimenting at home the last few days with the Iron Cross system.
I bet $10 on the field, $10 on the 5, $18 on the 6, and $18 on the 8.
I profit $10-30 if a field number hits, $4 if the 5 hits, $11 if the 6 or 8 hits, and lose $56 if the 7 hits.
The house edge per roll ain't that bad... (0.46*36+1.11*10+2.78*10)/56 = 0.99%
I fear the 7 out, so I only bet the Iron Cross once every 3 or 4 rolls.
I know sitting out rolls won't change my odds of losing (1 in 6), but I seem to avoid the majority of 7 outs doing this! :)
After rolling dice on my bed thousands of times, I've managed to profit over $5K.
If I keep winning at home, I'll probably try this system at the tables and limit my bets to 2-3 rolls per shooter.
Anyone else have similar success at the tables using the Iron Cross?
To make this even more successful I would marty the cross.
Step 2 would be called Titanium cross
Step 3 would be the Uranium Cross as your bankroll gets nuked.Quote: GWAE
Step 2 would be called Titanium cross
Quote: drjohnnyAhigh, did you ever get your dice throwing machine to produce consistent results?
Nope .. it actually went in the trash about 3 weeks ago. My wife got tired of looking at it under the craps table. It sucked on delivering a consistent shot and I chalked it up to a waste of my time.
Quote: chickenmanStep 3 would be the Uranium Cross as your bankroll gets nuked.
Nice once :)
I am happy your taking the GTC roll and working with it. it is good to work on anything
and get better. However the exact same GTC roll will not work on every table type or
length. That is what causes many people to lose tons of money. They get their roll
looking pretty good on their pracice rig and head for the casino planing to bet a ton
because they have this big advantage.
Well maybe and maybe not... you need to be sure you have an advantage on the
table your playing on.
I have taken a number of gtc classes and i really like them, and i think the guys at
GTC are the best, they really try hard to make you better.
There is also a problem with the results and class progression. (now this is my opinion
and i could be wrong, but it is still my opinion)
The very last class ( which i have not taken) is supposed to show you how to deal
with the differences you will find at the table. However the differences you find at
the table is what causes you to have problems prior to getting good enough
to take the last class. A number of people i have talked to indicate the same thing,
as you progress with your toss ( say using the hardway set) you get to where you
can keep one die on access all the time (for me it was left die) and you get many very
long rolls and you make some money, then when you get good enough to have two
dice with an on axis finish (not say they stay on axis the entire roll) you begin to get
so many 3/4 4/3's that you never want to play the game again, and it makes it
difficult to progress where you can take the so called advanced class.
Beleive me i have nothing against getting as good as you can, but there must be a better way
than leaving a large number of people in no mans land.
dicesetter
ps
To the credit of gtc, they try as hard as possible to pound into our heads that we should not
play until we are sure we have an advantage, that is not as easy as it sounds.
Quote: dicesitterDRjohnny
I am happy your taking the GTC roll and working with it. it is good to work on anything
and get better. However the exact same GTC roll will not work on every table type or
length. That is what causes many people to lose tons of money. They get their roll
looking pretty good on their pracice rig and head for the casino planing to bet a ton
because they have this big advantage.
Well maybe and maybe not... you need to be sure you have an advantage on the
table your playing on.
I have taken a number of gtc classes and i really like them, and i think the guys at
GTC are the best, they really try hard to make you better.
There is also a problem with the results and class progression. (now this is my opinion
and i could be wrong, but it is still my opinion)
The very last class ( which i have not taken) is supposed to show you how to deal
with the differences you will find at the table. However the differences you find at
the table is what causes you to have problems prior to getting good enough
to take the last class. A number of people i have talked to indicate the same thing,
as you progress with your toss ( say using the hardway set) you get to where you
can keep one die on access all the time (for me it was left die) and you get many very
long rolls and you make some money, then when you get good enough to have two
dice with an on axis finish (not say they stay on axis the entire roll) you begin to get
so many 3/4 4/3's that you never want to play the game again, and it makes it
difficult to progress where you can take the so called advanced class.
Beleive me i have nothing against getting as good as you can, but there must be a better way
than leaving a large number of people in no mans land.
dicesetter
ps
To the credit of gtc, they try as hard as possible to pound into our heads that we should not
play until we are sure we have an advantage, that is not as easy as it sounds.
I just wanted to weigh in here too. I have never been sure that I have had an advantage on a single craps table ever for even a single roll.
I have ABSOLUTELY been overconfident based on previous results resulting in MASSIVE LOSSES.
But feel free to take the classes and get some confidence and go for it!
GOOD LUCK!!!
Quote: AhighI just wanted to weigh in here too. I have never been sure that I have had an advantage on a single craps table ever for even a single roll.
I have ABSOLUTELY been overconfident based on previous results resulting in MASSIVE LOSSES.
But feel free to take the classes and get some confidence and go for it!
GOOD LUCK!!!
Ha! I am also spectacularly confident in my ability to walk away with less than I started with at the craps table. It's nice to see that I am not alone. I'm content to play craps for fun and if I walk away with some money once in a while, that's just more to play with the next time.
I am constantly surprised by how many folks (here and elsewhere) seem to be operating under the delusion that they play craps for fun and profit.
course I only use the strategy when I'm
throwing the dice. I use the Flying V and
incorporate a mild negative progression
to recapture any loses.
Have no problem with bouncy tables. I
get heat but that goes with the territory.
Quote: artvandelayI've never lost using the Iron Cross. Of
course I only use the strategy when I'm
throwing the dice. I use the Flying V and
incorporate a mild negative progression
to recapture any loses.
Have no problem with bouncy tables. I
get heat but that goes with the territory.
There's probably some guys who've never lost with the Iron Cross + negative progression at Joker's Wild too.
If you're alright with making $1 to $10 profit and you have $4,000 to lose and just want to say you profited, it can work for a long time.
ENJOY!
You might lose $4,000 chasing after you're up $800 on that 80th trip though.
