incorrect payoff

How often does this happen?

I'm playing at a 5x table (5x on all numbers, not just 6/8)

I am playing $20 on the pass and come and putting out $100 odds.

This has happened at least 2 times to me at different casinos:

I have $20 with $100 odds on a point of 6 (off of a come roll).

I have another $20 on the come.

A 6 hits. The correct payoff is $140 on the 6 + my $120 back. So that's $260 total.
The dealer knows I want another $100 on the odds for the $20 come bet as well as another $20 come bet. So in order to do the "on/off", he has to pay me $140.

But I get paid $160 instead. I don't say a word. I figured this extra $20 helps pay for about 80 rolls of negative EV pass/come bets, or about half an hour of play.

My questions are:
1. Is this ethical of me not to say anything? Of course it isn't! But would you do anything different?
2. How often will dealers make this mistake?

to be 100% honest, i would not take it if i saw it.


My reasoning is not that i want to be a goody two shoes, it is because dealing craps
can be hard and i expect them to pay attention and pay me correctly and if i point out
that error. it well help that dealer do a better job.

There are some dealers that make mistakes on purpose if you dont tip them, and i have
also seen dealers do you a favor like keep a come bet working after a 7 on the come out
if you are tipping them, so i feel if i am honest with them on mistake they do a better
job of making sure you get paid.

dicesetter

I must ask, are you sure he isn't rolling up the $20 on the come that should have gone to the six in that $160. I would not say a thing in your shoes.

I know that I have missed mistakes both ways--some significant ones going my way and, I am sure, some going the other way--that I thought about afterwards and did not say anything about because it would be a mess to fix (and my memory isn't that good; I could even be wrong!). An example is having several come bets w/ odds out, point is made, there is a "7" on the come out, and nothing happens. I am paying less than full attention (okay, I do drink at the tables and I also talk to other folks...so my attention is not "fixed" on the game at all times) and I forget or did not see it happen...but then I realize my pass bet got paid on the "7" and I am now getting paid on winning come bets.

However...when I see a mistake on a pay out, I look at it and ask the dealer (nicely and quietly) to check it again. I have, of course, been wrong on that too, but at least the dealer gets a chance to fix it before the dice move again.

Quote: Frogger

How often does this happen?

I'm playing at a 5x table (5x on all numbers, not just 6/8)

I am playing $20 on the pass and come and putting out $100 odds.

This has happened at least 2 times to me at different casinos:

I have $20 with $100 odds on a point of 6 (off of a come roll).

I have another $20 on the come.

A 6 hits. The correct payoff is $140 on the 6 + my $120 back. So that's $260 total.
The dealer knows I want another $100 on the odds for the $20 come bet as well as another $20 come bet. So in order to do the "on/off", he has to pay me $140.

But I get paid $160 instead. I don't say a word. I figured this extra $20 helps pay for about 80 rolls of negative EV pass/come bets, or about half an hour of play.

My questions are:
1. Is this ethical of me not to say anything? Of course it isn't! But would you do anything different?
2. How often will dealers make this mistake?

Are you sure it wasn't $20 return from new come bet because that bet is not available on new comeout roll after your six was made?
1) 6 was the point.
2) 6 was made. you get $40 for your flat bet, along with $120 for your odds (total 160)
3) your $20 come went to 6
4) your 100 odds went to the 6 (assuming you want it working because odds are "off" on comeout unless requested working.
5) you should get 160 back and have your chips total 120 on the 6.

I'm guessing you were misinformed that your 20/come doesn't play during comeout roll and it was returned to you without your knowledge.

Quote: Frogger

How often does this happen?

I'm playing at a 5x table (5x on all numbers, not just 6/8)

I am playing $20 on the pass and come and putting out $100 odds.

This has happened at least 2 times to me at different casinos:

I have $20 with $100 odds on a point of 6 (off of a come roll).

I have another $20 on the come.

A 6 hits. The correct payoff is $140 on the 6 + my $120 back. So that's $260 total.
The dealer knows I want another $100 on the odds for the $20 come bet as well as another $20 come bet. So in order to do the "on/off", he has to pay me $140.

But I get paid $160 instead. I don't say a word. I figured this extra $20 helps pay for about 80 rolls of negative EV pass/come bets, or about half an hour of play.

My questions are:
1. Is this ethical of me not to say anything? Of course it isn't! But would you do anything different?
2. How often will dealers make this mistake?

After the point was made he paid you. Unless he didn't bring you into the number (with odds not working of course) and perhaps just paid you and took you off? That would be the only time $160 in that spot is OK.

We have had this conversation to death on another thread. If you feel you can gain more by being honest then you should. If you want to do a hit and run for $20, that is your prerogative too!

Two ways I can think he did the wrong payout:

1) He sees you have a total of $120 action on the 6 (20 flat, 100 odds) and is going to pay you $140 for it (since a $120 place on 6 pays $140), brings $140 to the come, then has a brain fart and thinks, "whoah I forgot to add the extra $20 [flat bet]", thinking, somehow, that the odds pays $140 in retrospect, kind of.

2) When cutting out $140 [without a black chip], a dealer will typically drop 1 green in the come, place 3 reds on top, then size into it with green. (1 green + 3 red = 40, and sizing into it with green [4 chips], is 100). However, he could have f**** up and accidentially placed 2 green in the come, put 2 reds on top ($60), then sized into it with 4 green ($100) for a total of $160. Or, perhaps he had a "dirty stack" and one of the 3 red chips was actually a green chip.


Or perhaps, like what Tom said, he paid you $140 correctly, and if you weren't paying attention, you grabbed all the chips in your area ($20 come + $140 payout), and didn't have a $20 come bet for the next roll.

Quote: RS

Two ways I can think he did the wrong payout:

1) He sees you have a total of $120 action on the 6 (20 flat, 100 odds) and is going to pay you $140 for it (since a $120 place on 6 pays $140), brings $140 to the come, then has a brain fart and thinks, "whoah I forgot to add the extra $20 [flat bet]", thinking, somehow, that the odds pays $140 in retrospect, kind of.

2) When cutting out $140 [without a black chip], a dealer will typically drop 1 green in the come, place 3 reds on top, then size into it with green. (1 green + 3 red = 40, and sizing into it with green [4 chips], is 100). However, he could have f**** up and accidentially placed 2 green in the come, put 2 reds on top ($60), then sized into it with 4 green ($100) for a total of $160. Or, perhaps he had a "dirty stack" and one of the 3 red chips was actually a green chip.


Or perhaps, like what Tom said, he paid you $140 correctly, and if you weren't paying attention, you grabbed all the chips in your area ($20 come + $140 payout), and didn't have a $20 come bet for the next roll.

The third possibility is that he was too damn tired to think straight. Happens a lot to people who work weird hours. I wouldn't worry about it unless someone says something, and in that moment, I doubt anyone would.

1. It's about as ethical as setting up a game that is designed to be lost by the player.. If you are overpaid my advice is act ignorant and not admit you knew about the overpayment.
2. It's fairly common I think. The most egregious thing i've seen is a dealer habitually paying don't come odds at 1:1

Quote: chrisr

The most egregious thing i've seen is a dealer habitually paying don't come odds at 1:1

I've had that happen many times. Once the boxman caught it and reminded the dealer. There was no request for money back from the player for previous seven out's.(I wasn't the player)

No, the $20 come stayed in place. This happened to me three times with three different dealers in different casinos