Life as a darksider

Was in Vegas last week playing at Main Street Station. Nice tables with attractive 20x odds. At a table of 8 or so I am the lone darksider (just the way I like it). And the table is stone cold: PSO after PSO. With a DP and DC bet with heavy odds, I am making a nice killing while everybody else is wallet-digging every 10 minutes. Anyway, a lady at the table innocently asks the dealer "what is he doing to win all this money?" Now at the table, I don't say a word - I just mind my business and make money. So I let the dealer answer and she says something to the effect of:

"he's betting against the table. Most people don't play that way. I don't play that way, as it is no fun. It's a bad way to play."

I held my tongue, but had these replies in my head:
"No fun? I'm having a blast."
"A bad way to play? My rack is full and you are wallet-digging. Who's the dummy here?"

I do understand why some players see darksiders in a negative light. However, I don't feel that I am betting against the table. I am betting against the house. Bad/unlucky shooters at the table are simply my mechanism with which to do that.

Actually I love hot shooters. By all means, bring them to the table and I will bet the Pass Line. Until then, I live on the dark side.

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I do somewhat agree it's less fun: I like throwing things at people and, if I win, that means I don't get to throw things anymore. =(

Yes, the biggest problem I have on the darkside is that when I am having a good run, all of the other players seem to disappear.

I have to agree that playing the don't is less fun.

For me, the fun part of craps is pressing when I'm winning. It's a lot harder to press when you are playing the don't.

If you're flat-betting, then, sure, play the don't.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I have to agree that playing the don't is less fun.

For me, the fun part of craps is pressing when I'm winning. It's a lot harder to press when you are playing the don't.

If you're flat-betting, then, sure, play the don't.

A few months ago, I had the fortune of being at a table where a shooter established and made 8 points in a row (2300:1 shot per the wiz). I was lucky enough to have switched to the lightside, and I admit it was more of a rush than I ever get on the dark. Cleared well over $1K. But the problem is that this situation comes around too infrequently for me to play the lightside right out of the chute. My betting paradigm does have a transition point from the dark to the light, but 95% of the time I have to limit my fun to collecting chips on the darkside.

Its bank craps. The house books the bets, not the individual players.
Sure a dark sider may have a dampening influence from time to time.... so what. Any such dampening is due to the ignorance of the players and a fixation on a statistical difference so slim its almost non-existent.

I often play the dark side, but I'm not some gloating pest about it.

I always play the don'ts ... I'm not betting 'against the shooter', I am betting 'with the dice'.
When my DP/DC goes to the 4/10, I start out with a $30 lay with a $4 HW. Then, each roll, press that number an additional $2 as the shooter is 'that much closer' to hitting the 7. When everyone is making their place wins on the 6/8, I cheer with them and high-5 along with them. When the 7 hits, I moan along with them about how much I hate this game...

Quote: jkluv7

I always play the don'ts ... I'm not betting 'against the shooter', I am betting 'with the dice'.
When my DP/DC goes to the 4/10, I start out with a $30 lay with a $4 HW. Then, each roll, press that number an additional $2 as the shooter is 'that much closer' to hitting the 7. When everyone is making their place wins on the 6/8, I cheer with them and high-5 along with them. When the 7 hits, I moan along with them about how much I hate this game...

Interesting. I tend to think just the opposite. That is, once I lay my odds on a DP/DC point, I leave it active for no more than 5 rolls. If the shooter has not sevened out by that time, I remove the odds (but leave the line bet, of course).

Another 'interesting' thing I have observed is when a Don't player gets picked off a few times that he takes down all his Don't bets, including the flat bets.

In this case, for the outside numbers, it would be far more advantageous to leave the flat bets on the Don't side and Place these bets as well. On a 7-out, it is the same as if you had taken the bet down, but if the number hits again, you make some money on the place, which then can be taken down for a win.

One cannot add a bet with a negative EV and be better off. If you do the exact math on the different outcomes, you will see that. If I lose a big Odds bet on the don't side, I will remove my other odds bets, but I never remove my line bet(s), as I have the mathematical advantage on them.

The same thing happens in Baccarat. When a player bets thousands on the Bank side, anyone betting on the Player side is pretty much shunned. Craps and Baccarat are both unbeatable house games though, so I suppose the kinds of people that play them are going to be superstitious.

Quote: darthvader

One cannot add a bet with a negative EV and be better off. If you do the exact math on the different outcomes, you will see that. If I lose a big Odds bet on the don't side, I will remove my other odds bets, but I never remove my line bet(s), as I have the mathematical advantage on them.

You are correct with what you have written, but that is not what jkluv7 was doing. jkluv7 is correct with his play.

He said some Don't players will give up on a shooter and take down all of their Don't bets (he was talking just the base bet).
jkluv7 is saying a better play would be for the Don't to instead leave the bet up, and PLACE the same number, for the same amount.
jkluv7 is correct. That is a much better play, and the is a win, no lose approach.

How can you add a bet(s) to the table that have a HE, and make it a better play?
Simple. Pulling down your Don't bets is a huge mistake, and a negative advantage play. Pulling it down gives you No Action.
Placing the number for the same amount, also results in No Action for a 7 out, but, if the number rolls, you will get paid a little bit.

Let's look at a typical play a Don't player makes.

$30 Don't Come bet
Number rolled is a 6, so the DC player takes the bet back, and does not let it travel to the table.
If a 6 rolls, he loses nothing. If a 7 rolls, he wins nothing. He has No Action.

Now, suppose instead of taking the bet down, he lets it travel to the 6, but then also PLACES the 6 for $30.
If a 7 rolls, he wins $30 for the DC, and loses his $30 PLACE bet, which is a net ZERO, same as if he pulled the DC bet back.
If a 6 rolls, he loses his $30 DC, but then he gets paid $35 for the PLACE 6. He can then take the bet down if he wants, but he has an extra $5.

I agree with your analysis. Still rubs me the wrong way, but I have to agree.