Blockchain;s Ethereum Casinos? Opinion on their rules?

Hello everyone,

Lately, I have been digging a little bit on Online Casino using Blockchain and especially ETH (Ethereum) as their core system.

I have found for example Edgeless (using EDG as currency) to be quite interesting as they mention there is a 0% house edge for the casino. Now, I am just wondering how real that is.

Also, I wanted an opinion on their rules and and if you think they are fair or not. From their Customer Support person:

"House peaks for a Black Jack (like an American Black Jack) 4 decks (all decks are reshuffled after every hand) Dealer stands on soft 17 Player can double on any first 2 cards Player can split to 4 hands Player can split aces Player can hit split aces Player can surrender and get back half of his bet Black Jack pays 3:2 Min. bet limit: 1 EDG Max. bet limit: 1000 EDG."

what do you guys think about this?

Quote: Arrakeen

Hello everyone,

Lately, I have been digging a little bit on Online Casino using Blockchain and especially ETH (Ethereum) as their core system.

I have found for example Edgeless (using EDG as currency) to be quite interesting as they mention there is a 0% house edge for the casino. Now, I am just wondering how real that is.

Also, I wanted an opinion on their rules and and if you think they are fair or not. From their Customer Support person:

"House peaks for a Black Jack (like an American Black Jack) 4 decks (all decks are reshuffled after every hand) Dealer stands on soft 17 Player can double on any first 2 cards Player can split to 4 hands Player can split aces Player can hit split aces Player can surrender and get back half of his bet Black Jack pays 3:2 Min. bet limit: 1 EDG Max. bet limit: 1000 EDG."

what do you guys think about this?

How does a casino make any money with a zero house edge? Unless this is a way to get people there as a promotion or they make fees some other way. I would be thinking it's too good to be true. I can not find very much information about the casino.
nothing much on LBC, The Pogg, or Casinomeister. They claim to have some kind of licence but that's mostly worthless IMO. Apparently, they have some fairness system in place, I have no clue how that works. Here is a slot seed. 0x5fe7f977e71dba2ea1a68e21057beebb9be2ac30c6410aa38d4f3fbe41dcffd2

they seem to have some bonuses and a refer a friend scheme. Agian, with all that, how do they make money?

Here is my question, why do you want to play a break even game anyways? That seems like a low bar to set for yourself if you are messing around online. I have no idea how this casino works. Is the crypto paid from and to your crypto wallet instantly as you play ? You have to fade a bunch of pitfalls just to break even. like if the game is fair, will they pay if you win, what it the site shuts down, what kind of fees will you have, are you willing to fade the crypto market?

I could see if they had something with possible juicy advantage where it might be worth the risk to test things out. I'm all for that since that's ofttimes how people make big scores.

Quote: Arrakeen

I have found for example Edgeless (using EDG as currency) to be quite interesting as they mention there is a 0% house edge for the casino. Now, I am just wondering how real that is.

what do you guys think about this?

I have heard of slots with 0% edge, or at least there being A slot in the bank advertising this.

On one hand, a joint might and I say might be able to make it with 0% edge. This is based on how many people just spin off their slot wins already.

OTOH, it would take forever to do this. And any joint advertising this will attract sharps looking to exploit and not fish looking to just play. IMHO at the least you need the edge of dealer plays last so players may bust first.

Just my thought.

Quote: AZDuffman

On one hand, a joint might and I say might be able to make it with 0% edge. This is based on how many people just spin off their slot wins already.

?

Quote: Arrakeen

<snip>"House peaks for a Black Jack... "<snip>

Arrakeen,

Does it really say "peaks" rather than "peeks"?

Dog Hand

Quote: DogHand

Arrakeen,

Does it really say "peaks" rather than "peeks"?

Dog Hand

Yeah, meant to call that out as well. Almost certainly foreign to English error.

The house edge may be zero, but variance is not. When variance has consumed all the bankroll a played is willing to lose the casino has that money.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

The house edge may be zero, but variance is not. When variance has consumed all the bankroll a played is willing to lose the casino has that money.

This make no sense. Why can't the players win all the money? Why isn't it just a break-even proposition at the end? Sure they might get 100k from one guy and they now have his money. But, what about the guy who wins $100k? The casino's don't have more money than all their players combine anyway. If anything, they will be the ones that end up being on the wrong side of variance. A casino that only offered break even games would go broke due to operating costs.

This is assuming players play correctly or its a coin flip game where no strategies are needed.

If a strategy is needed then then casino should be just fine since many players play bad.

ive chimed in about this before but those egdeless casinos "say" that they make their money off of people playing imperfect strategies such as in blackjack

Quote: AxelWolf

... The casino's don't have more money than all their players combine anyway. ...

THAT makes no sense. The players are not pooling their money against the casino.

Focusing on the break-even aspect is short sighted. Sure, if a player goes at it until the sun burns out the expectation is a near-even result given the principal of regression to the mean. If the player has a finite bankroll, no matter how large, there will be a probability it is all gone long before that time. The lesser the bankroll, the sooner that is likely to happen.

Anyone with a bankroll large enough to play long term and hope for good variance before stopping would probably prefer to invest elsewhere. Where profits are guaranteed and easier to get. See other threads about how using some "hit-and-run" strategy over multiple sessions is worthless.

Quote: AxelWolf

... This is assuming players play correctly or its a coin flip game where no strategies are needed. If a strategy is needed then then casino should be just fine since many players play bad.

The OP specifies blackjack. I say it would work for a coin flip, too, just not be as profitable. See other threads about how even playing an +EV game will have times when your bankroll sinks by tens of thousands of dollars.

You have to surrender real money to play. The casino has it. Maybe you get some back or even win. See other threads about how winning is only the first step, and getting paid, the final step isn't a sure thing.

I don't see how this model can miss.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

THAT makes no sense. The players are not pooling their money against the casino.

Focusing on the break-even aspect is short sighted. Sure, if a player goes at it until the sun burns out the expectation is a near-even result given the principal of regression to the mean. If the player has a finite bankroll, no matter how large, there will be a probability it is all gone long before that time. The lesser the bankroll, the sooner that is likely to happen.

Anyone with a bankroll large enough to play long term and hope for good variance before stopping would probably prefer to invest elsewhere. Where profits are guaranteed and easier to get. See other threads about how using some "hit-and-run" strategy over multiple sessions is worthless.

The OP specifies blackjack. I say it would work for a coin flip, too, just not be as profitable. See other threads about how even playing an +EV game will have times when your bankroll sinks by tens of thousands of dollars.

You have to surrender real money to play. The casino has it. Maybe you get some back or even win. See other threads about how winning is only the first step, and getting paid, the final step isn't a sure thing.

I don't see how this model can miss.

You don't see how this model can miss, yet, they have and do. Some casinos fold even with bigger advantages. Their are costs to running an online casino if you actually want some players. Let's not forget, online casinos are vulnerable to hacking, glitches and what not. How many break even/coin flip type sites with only a small advantage stay around for long?

If you read my post is this thread or just about all my posts about online gambling I normally include the fact that you can get stiffed along with with other things that can go wrong.

I have no reason to think an individual player will beat a break even game. I think he will lose, win, or break even at some point.

Quote: AxelWolf

You don't see how this model can miss, yet, they have and do. Some casinos fold even with bigger advantages.

I say the model is viable for returning a profit. If you can’t operate a business the model maters not.

Quote: AxelWolf

Their are costs to running an online casino if you actually want some players. Let's not forget, online casinos are vulnerable to hacking, glitches and what not.

Any business has costs. The man will always be there for his cut of your action. Would the proposed model cover costs? That is a different question, and the answer is entirely dependent on execution. The vulnerability of which you speak is almost always due to incompetence. Businesses don’t stay current with technology. Developers suck at their craft. Operators don’t apply patches. The real vulnerabilities are internal and usually self inflicted. That said, if a nation state decides to Stuxnet your ass, you are screwed.

Quote: AxelWolf

If you read my post is this thread or just about all my posts about online gambling I normally include the fact that you can get stiffed along with with other things that can go wrong.

So you do. I have read many of your posts. The point was mentioned in support of this thread.

Quote: AxelWolf

I have no reason to think an individual player will beat a break even game. I think he will lose, win, or break even at some point.

I agree, but that is a moot point when assessing whether or not the model can be profitable.

I looked at the Blackjack rules Edgeless offered back in Feb 2018 and found they had a house edge of 0.02%. With roulette or slots designing a genuinely 0% game is easy, with blackjack I'm not sure it can be done without changing the game entirely.

It’s funny if you look at their reddit comments they claim that edge less is a marketing term because of strict regulations