100xOdds
100xOdds
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August 19th, 2018 at 4:52:58 AM permalink
was walking past a bj table when the dealer shouted this to the pit boss.
never heard it before so I stopped to see whats going on.

player has a Hard 17.
dealer deals him a 2.
my jaw dropped.

how did he do this?
(don't remember Dealer's up card.)
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
OnceDear
OnceDear
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August 19th, 2018 at 4:59:12 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

was walking past a bj table when the dealer shouted this to the pit boss.
never heard it before so I stopped to see whats going on.

player has a Hard 17.
dealer deals him a 2.
my jaw dropped.

how did he do this?
(don't remember Dealer's up card.)

Player was a lucky ploppy or he saw the hole card or he wore an x-ray eye-patch ( and somewhat gave away that likelihood in his play ).

Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
FinsRule
FinsRule
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August 19th, 2018 at 6:39:05 AM permalink
I did it once. I was losing a lot at $5 blackjack and I was sick of it. I had a 17 against a 10. I drew a 5. The dealer had a 20.

It was funny. There’s probably much worse plays that are made all the time, but everyone had acted like I was a madman.
heatmap
heatmap
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August 19th, 2018 at 6:25:36 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

was walking past a bj table when the dealer shouted this to the pit boss.
never heard it before so I stopped to see whats going on.

player has a Hard 17.
dealer deals him a 2.
my jaw dropped.

how did he do this?
(don't remember Dealer's up card.)



a dealer once told me a story of a table that was so drunk they continually did that and kept winning he said they were doubling down too
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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August 19th, 2018 at 7:48:34 PM permalink
My very first trip to Las Vegas, eons ago, Imperial Palace: I had 18 dealer had 10 showing I wanted another card, dealer hesitated, finally dealer said aloud Hitting Hard 18 and I got my 3. Only other player at the table got up and left in disgust at my taking a low card with such ridiculous play.
KevinAA
KevinAA
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August 19th, 2018 at 9:48:26 PM permalink
You can hit hard 17 v dealer A if the count is negative enough (-3 I think).
BlackjackGuy123
BlackjackGuy123
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August 19th, 2018 at 10:43:19 PM permalink
The index to hit 17 v A is much lower in a S17 game.
unJon
unJon
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August 20th, 2018 at 12:55:11 PM permalink
Fun fact, you would save about 8% in EV by surrendering a hard 17 vs a dealer T vs hitting, and probably reap about the same amount of consternation value at the table. Though maybe not because “the shoe would still be right.”

In an 8 deck shoe, hitting the hard 17 v T costs you almost the same EV as standing on a 12 v T.

Hitting the hard 17 v T costs more than 33 times the EV of standing on a hard 16 v T. Standing on 33 sixteens probably reaps way more consternation value than one hit of hard 17.

Though pulling a James Caan and doubling a hard 18 has to be the gold standard move here.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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August 20th, 2018 at 1:31:15 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Fun fact, you would save about 8% in EV by surrendering a hard 17 vs a dealer T vs hitting,
and probably reap about the same amount of consternation value at the table. Though maybe not because “the shoe would still be right.”

wait..what? surrender if you're dealt '7 + facecard' vs a dealer 10 or A??

why isn't this on the strategy cards??
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
unJon
unJon
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August 20th, 2018 at 1:33:41 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

wait..what? surrender if you're dealt '7 + facecard' vs a dealer 10 or A??

why isn't this on the strategy cards??



Because standing > surrendering > hitting
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Abcfreak
Abcfreak
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August 20th, 2018 at 6:14:29 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

wait..what? surrender if you're dealt '7 + facecard' vs a dealer 10 or A??

why isn't this on the strategy cards??



What they are saying is that if your only option was surrender or hit, youd save 8%EV surrendering. Standing is still the best play.
billryan
billryan
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August 20th, 2018 at 6:24:57 PM permalink
In the event that six cards is an automatic win, I think hitting a five card 17 vs 10 is proper.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
RS
RS
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August 20th, 2018 at 7:21:27 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

In the event that six cards is an automatic win, I think hitting a five card 17 vs 10 is proper.


Yes. It’s correct to hit with 17 against 8-A. I think I told you that before. :-)
bobbartop
bobbartop
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August 20th, 2018 at 8:51:22 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

In the event that six cards is an automatic win, I think hitting a five card 17 vs 10 is proper.




When I have played on Game Kings with 6-card Charlie it is correct to hit a five-card hard 17 against 9, T, and Ace.

I know it is not the subject of this thread but whenever I hit hard 17 in Spanish 21, the dealer always calls out to the Floor. And that comes up rather frequently.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Tanko
Tanko
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August 21st, 2018 at 6:27:54 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Fun fact, you would save about 8% in EV by surrendering a hard 17 vs a dealer T vs hitting,....



I scan. If I’m dealt a hard 17 against a dealer 10, and there is a scarcity of tens on the table, I will surrender my 17. Worked out well for most of the times I’ve done it.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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August 21st, 2018 at 10:29:12 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

I scan. If I’m dealt a hard 17 against a dealer 10, and there is a scarcity of tens on the table, I will surrender my 17. Worked out well for most of the times I’ve done it.



I don't see how that can be correct.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
billryan
billryan
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August 21st, 2018 at 11:08:04 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I don't see how that can be correct.



It works, except when it doesn't. 17 vs 10 is pretty weak hand.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
unJon
unJon
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August 21st, 2018 at 11:10:31 AM permalink
Is there a +TC where surrendering 17 v T is correct?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Tanko
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August 21st, 2018 at 1:41:31 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I don't see how that can be correct.


A seventeen can’t win unless the dealer busts.

With a 10 upcard, the odds of the dealer busting are only 21.4%. I’m already at a major disadvantage.

If I see too few tens on the table, I assume the dealer has one, which would give him a 77% advantage.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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August 21st, 2018 at 1:51:08 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

A seventeen can’t win unless the dealer busts.

With a 10 upcard, the odds of the dealer busting are only 21.4%. I’m already at a major disadvantage.

If I see too few tens on the table, I assume the dealer has one, which would give him a 77% advantage.




I am editing my former response. I'm still confused, but accept that I might have been wrong. First time in my life.
Last edited by: bobbartop on Aug 21, 2018
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Romes
Romes
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August 21st, 2018 at 1:59:35 PM permalink
If I would have heard seen this happen, I would have waited around 1 more hand and watched the dealer deal...
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
racquet
racquet
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August 21st, 2018 at 4:12:25 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

wait..what? surrender if you're dealt '7 + facecard' vs a dealer 10 or A?? why isn't this on the strategy cards??



Actually, it is. You surrender 10-7 vs an Ace in a H17 game, I sometimes just stand, probably because it draws too much attention to surrender a pat hand. Sitting third base as is my preference, it's even more noticeable when the dealer busts or if you push your (surrendered) 17 against his.

As far as any difference in an 8-deck game versus, let's say, 6-deck, as is mentioned in an earlier post...

Maybe the math analysis can see a difference, but I can't understand, just thinking about it, that an 8-deck, or a 10-deck or 20-deck game is ANY different than 6-deck. Same distribution of cards - 10s, 3s, 4s, etc. Sure, a very high count (or a very low one) can have an effect, but how can 416 evenly distributed cards be any different from 312 cards, unless you're counting?

I understand how basic strategy is different for S17 v H17, but six-deck vs eight deck? I play it the same way, if I play eight-deck, which I won't, usually.
BlackjackGuy123
BlackjackGuy123
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August 21st, 2018 at 4:51:05 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Is there a +TC where surrendering 17 v T is correct?



+5 if it is early surrender.



17 v A is a basic strategy surrender in a H17 game/
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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August 21st, 2018 at 7:16:26 PM permalink
Quote: BlackjackGuy123

+5 if it is early surrender.


17 vs Ace is a basic strategy surrender if it is early surrender.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
BlackjackGuy123
BlackjackGuy123
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August 21st, 2018 at 8:07:35 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

17 vs Ace is a basic strategy surrender if it is early surrender.




Yes, I know
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