Poll

7 votes (58.33%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (8.33%)
2 votes (16.66%)
2 votes (16.66%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (16.66%)
1 vote (8.33%)
5 votes (41.66%)

12 members have voted

Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
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August 13th, 2017 at 8:48:00 AM permalink
I think you mean with7,8,9,10 upcard.
The mountain is tall but the grass grows on top of the mountain.
Switch
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
  • Threads: 12
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August 13th, 2017 at 12:34:11 PM permalink
Quote: QFIT

Unfortunately. I generated indices, and applied Kelly betting; and the game does not appear to be amenable to counting. Clearly beatable with hole-carding.



I did consider that the + count cards (7 thru Ace) would be worth more ev, if left in the deck, as they are not as valuable to the dealer, as with regular Blackjack, due to the 'Zombie' feature. Of course it also eliminates some high count index plays as you would never stand on a 15 or 16 against any dealer up-card 7-Ace.

I wasn't given a breakdown of the math' analysis but I am interested to see whether the player is better off against, say, a dealer 2 or 7 with a random hand. Not sure if you or Mike have the player's ev for each dealer up-card but if you have then I would love to see them. From my limited viewing of the game so far it seems that players like the dealer having a 'Zombie' up-card as it gives them 2 chances to win.

Early days but the initial response from players seem encouraging. I just need a Zombie-style side bet to spice it up a little more.
Switch
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
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August 13th, 2017 at 12:42:35 PM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Dear beachbumbabs,

You are right, this is not the whole story.

I will up date Geoff Hall's on this post, next time I talk to him.



All of the quotes contain some truth in them but SG has the right to exclusively distribute any new game that I create. However, Roger is a smart guy and we felt that it was a good idea for me to (hopefully) get the momentum going in Vegas as I have had some experience in distributing Blackjack variants in that area.

I can tell you that The 4 Queens and Binions will be installing the game after the anticipated approval of the game (Oct 19th).

A lot will rest on the results from the field trial at The Venetian but I will be aiming to get more installations after G2E.
QFIT
QFIT
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
  • Threads: 1
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August 13th, 2017 at 12:46:44 PM permalink
The player is far worse off with a deuce upcard than with normal BJ. Seven upcard is the best for the player. The game is probably countable with a custom count.
"It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 978
  • Posts: 16483
August 13th, 2017 at 1:02:05 PM permalink
Quote: Switch

I wasn't given a breakdown of the math' analysis but I am interested to see whether the player is better off against, say, a dealer 2 or 7 with a random hand.



Here is my expected values by dealer up card, after peeking for blackjack:

2 -6.29%
3 1.96%
4 5.28%
5 8.72%
6 12.72%
7 19.87%
8 13.78%
9 3.66%
10 -3.45%
ace -3.68%


I'm available for hire to do a card counting vulnerability study. However, I'm sure my competitors would charge less.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Switch
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 919
August 13th, 2017 at 1:50:14 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Here is my expected values by dealer up card, after peeking for blackjack:

2 -6.29%
3 1.96%
4 5.28%
5 8.72%
6 12.72%
7 19.87%
8 13.78%
9 3.66%
10 -3.45%
ace -3.68%


I'm available for hire to do a card counting vulnerability study. However, I'm sure my competitors would charge less.



Thanks Mike!

Wow, the 7 really is such a good card for the player.

No wonder the players preferred the 'Zombie' up-card. You are better off playing against a dealer 10 than a dealer 2 and also a dealer 9 rather than a dealer 3.

Might have to tweak the simple 'Ace 5' count and use the '2 7' count instead :-)

Eliot did do some count vulnerability and found that it was not overly susceptible as QFIT already calculated.
Switch
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
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  • Posts: 919
August 13th, 2017 at 1:54:03 PM permalink
Quote: QFIT

The player is far worse off with a deuce upcard than with normal BJ. Seven upcard is the best for the player. The game is probably countable with a custom count.



I think the EOR's could end up radically different than regular Blackjack.
panda1314
panda1314
Joined: Mar 27, 2016
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August 13th, 2017 at 1:55:34 PM permalink
No vulnerability study done yet???
Switch
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
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August 13th, 2017 at 2:14:01 PM permalink
Quote: panda1314

No vulnerability study done yet???



Yes, one has been done that showed no more susceptibility than the regular game.
RoyalBJ
RoyalBJ
Joined: Jul 18, 2011
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 251
August 13th, 2017 at 5:05:35 PM permalink
Quote: Switch

Yes, one has been done that showed no more susceptibility than the regular game.

Vulnerability analysis still can not emulate hit-and-run, nor limited bankroll.

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