Blackjack Tourney Promotion

Hi. Fair disclosure, I am learning AP, so I hope I'm not blowing anything for anyone by posting this. I'll be very careful not to post any specifics, and as luck has it, I have very few details. :-)

Anyway... Here is what I know:
If I earn 500 tier points from 5a Monday – 4:59a Sunday each week I receive an entry into the qualifying tournament the following Sunday.
$10 coin in on video poker or $5 coin in on slots for 1 point. 9/6 JoB is available $0.25 and $0.50 detonation. I think playing quarters is a better option because there is a 0% chance of getting a W2G. Who wants to pay taxes if they don't have too? anyway...
I pretty sure that means an entry costs (approximately) $10 X 500 points X .005 expected loss... $25 per entry. Seems reasonable enough.... Maybe just a bit more if I make some mistakes.

The casino web page says it is a $100,000 BJ tourney. I assume that is total prize pool. Here is what I don't know: Anything else useful... like:
The rules in the BJ tourney... Starting chips, who advances, how many rounds to advance though, how many places are paid, how people are paid (I assume it's free slot play).

Questions:
What do I need to know if this is worth chasing?
How do I get the information I need? Can / should I just call them and ask?

Also, I watched some blackjack tourneys online, and basic strategy seems way less important than betting position and the size of your stack. Where would if find strategy guidelines for BJ tourneys?

Additional information:
I know basic strategy. I can count hi / lo (if the dealer isn't lighting fast and I'm not drinking) and know a few deviations (insurance and 16 v 10... The easy ones...) but I'm no Romes (not even close). I'm not sure any of that matters, as in the BJ tourney I saw on youtube, I saw people doubling natural BJs to try and get into the top two at their table.

I thank everyone in advance for their guidance and advice.

Tournament blackjack is a contest between players using chips that don't represent money. Of course it is much different than playing with your money against the casino. Do the Google thing and you will find plenty of advice. Good luck on winding up in the top at your table.

"Third prize is, you're fired." - Glengarry Glen Ross

They could be giving away $100k each tournament, but that sounds unlikely, given how easy it is to earn an entry.

It could be $100k for the month, for $25k per tournament.

Or it might be a 4 month thing (only during summer?), where they give out $25k a month, or $5-6k per tournament.

Definitely call and ask. Also figure out the payout structure. Maybe even how many people are generally in the tournament.

That $100k could mean they are giving away $100k in cash + freeplay + gifts/prizes/comps. If most of that "$100k" is in food comps & free hotel stays, then it's not too great.


So a "$100k tournament" can range anywhere from practically zero prizes in cash and free play, up to $100k per tournament.


It could also be a pre-tournament, where the winner, or top 5 or top 10 advance to a tournament held at the end of the year, and that tournament has a $100k prize pool.

RS basically summed it up. I'd just also add that tournament strategy is VASTLY different than regular counting. I don't claim to be a tournament expert, but there are some really good tournament books out there if you so choose (wong has one).

Definitely just call the rewards desk and bluntly ask what the rules and payout structure are for the tournament. There shouldn't be anything weird by just asking about the tournament and the payouts =). IF it is $100k each week, and that's mostly in cash + free play, then it could potentially be worth it - but you'd probably want to know tournament strategy.

I've followed the Google advice. Lots to absorb on tournament strategy!

I was intrigued by a local BJ tourney, and following the advice here I bought Wong's book on tournament strategy. I was dismayed to learn that BJ tournament play (at least according to his book) seems based primarily on betting strategy and not skillful play of the hand. Usually the size of your bet is determined by how much your opponents bet and by how much you are ahead/behind your opponents in chip count. And since the object is to have at least enough chips to advance to the next round, there are things like doubling down on a stiff 17 or even a blackjack(!) as a last ditch effort of earning more chips.

You should be getting your normal comps and cashback as well, so the cost will be that much less.
Ken Smith has some amazing insights into BJ tournaments. I'd read all you find of his stuff.

After doing some reading, I'm thinking that I feel the same way about black jack tournaments as I do about poker tournaments.... The strategy is so much different than cash games it's a whole different beast. I'm sticking to cash games.

If I get an invite by happenstance, i might give it a go just for giggles, but I'm not going to play a -ev game to get an invite.

Quote: theoriemeister

I was dismayed to learn that BJ tournament play (at least according to his book) seems based primarily on betting strategy and not skillful play of the hand. Usually the size of your bet is determined by how much your opponents bet and by how much you are ahead/behind your opponents in chip count. And since the object is to have at least enough chips to advance to the next round, there are things like doubling down on a stiff 17 or even a blackjack(!) as a last ditch effort of earning more chips.

If you understand this, you have an advantage over a great number of blackjack tournament players.

If this thread is referring to the $100k Golden Nugget BJ tournament the payouts are:
1st $50k cash or promo chips
2nd $15k cash or promo chips
3rd $10k cash or promo chips
etc.

The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a cap on the number of players and it is a rebuy tournament. They also let players buy directly into the quarter final and semi final rounds.

The one I saw is in the Midwest.

Quote: DRich

If this thread is referring to the $100k Golden Nugget BJ tournament the payouts are:
1st $50k cash or promo chips
2nd $15k cash or promo chips
3rd $10k cash or promo chips
etc.

The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a cap on the number of players and it is a rebuy tournament. They also let players buy directly into the quarter final and semi final rounds.

Do the promo chips not require a tax form?

Quote: billryan

Do the promo chips not require a tax form?

I believe most places treat promo chips as having "zero cash value."

Then again I don't know, because I've never won $10k+ in promotional chips =P

Quote: billryan

Do the promo chips not require a tax form?

I would assume that is the case because why else would someone take the chips over cash?

I don't know if this is fact or not, or if promo chips would fall under what I been told about free play. ($50k cash or promo chips)

I thought 20k per day was the max they could give one person in free play from a tournament win without there being a form involved. Again, this is just what I was told by the casino so I'm not sure if it's true. It sounded believable to me, especially since a number of slot tournaments top prizes were 20k.

Quote: AxelWolf

I thought 20k per day was the max they could give one person in free play from a tournament win without there being a form involved. Again, this is just what I was told by the casino so I'm not sure if it's true. It sounded believable to me, especially since a number of slot tournaments top prizes were 20k.

I am not saying you are wrong but I have never heard that and never seen anything from the IRS to indicate that. It would not be a Nevada Gaming regulation.

Quote: Deucekies

If you understand this, you have an advantage over a great number of blackjack tournament players.

Thanks, Deucekies.

For my money, I found Wong's book a little too general--for me at least. He gives lots of 'examples' in which you are ahead (or behind) a player (or two), but doesn't give any specific algorithms to help me. I wish there was a chart (like in basic strategy!) that says something along the lines of "With this many hands left, and you are behind (or ahead) by x number of chips, then bet z number of units."

I wonder if anyone on here has ever tried to compile such a chart. . .

No taxes here

On promo chips

https://imgur.com/gallery/FPI2D

So assuming that cash winnings are taxable and promo chip winnings are not, it would seem to me that when taking the promo chips, you're hoping to beat the tax rate of 25-30%. This means you need a return of 70-75% on your promo chip bets.

Am I understanding that right, and if so, is that reasonable?

Quote: Deucekies

So assuming that cash winnings are taxable and promo chip winnings are not, it would seem to me that when taking the promo chips, you're hoping to beat the tax rate of 25-30%. This means you need a return of 70-75% on your promo chip bets.

Am I understanding that right, and if so, is that reasonable?

All winnings are taxable it's just that the casino won't report promo winnings. It is your responsibility to report them.

Quote: DRich

All winnings are taxable it's just that the casino won't report promo winnings. It is your responsibility to report them.

Of course.

I'll ask it another way. Why would anyone take promo chips instead of cash?

Quote: Deucekies

Of course.

I'll ask it another way. Why would anyone take promo chips instead of cash?

I didn't read through the entire thread to figure out what kind of promo chips they are and how they work and all that stuff. But simply put -- sometimes people aren't all that smart.

If a casino tells a person they'll give them either $5k in cash or $5k in promo chips, but the cash requires a tax form and it'll be reported to the IRS, the person may likely figure, "Hey, I'm gonna gamble anyway, may as well get the $5k in promo chips. It's the same $5k either way, but with chips, the IRS doesn't see it."

The fault is in the italics, the $5k in promo chips isn't worth $5k in cash, because the chips are typically worth a bit less than 50%, unless you play them "properly" to maximize your value, but even then, still less than 100%.