Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:17:54 AM permalink
Quote: Rio481

...There are very effective means for countering APs and cheats that don't involve 6:5. Sorry, but it's a pure money play - nothing to do with integrity of the game. And I agree that the market will bear 6:5, at least on the strip. That's obvious from what I saw last week. My disappointment is with the market (aka, players)...


Exactly! MGM Detroit here has 5 blackjack pits. Only one is 6:5 and is ONLY open on Friday and Saturday nights. On top of that, every other hour when the red lights are on, blackjacks revert back to 3:2 and a ten on spilt aces count as blackjack and pay 3:2 as well. If the whole place was 6:5, the place would shutter it's doors.

P.S. Motorcity and Greektown do NOT have any 6:5 blackjack. Greektown did at one point about 5 years ago, but it didn't fly here.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:22:28 AM permalink
As for it starting on SD games. Had that always been one round then shuffle, like on all poker games, counting would be a mute point.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
PokerGrinder
PokerGrinder
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:23:21 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Exactly! MGM Detroit here has 5 blackjack pits. Only one is 6:5 and is ONLY open on Friday and Saturday nights. On top of that, every other hour when the red lights are on, blackjacks revert back to 3:2 and a ten on spilt aces count as blackjack and pay 3:2 as well. If the whole place was 6:5, the place would shutter it's doors.

P.S. Motorcity and Greektown do NOT have any 6:5 blackjack. Greektown did at one point about 5 years ago, but it didn't fly here.


A ten on split aces counts as a blackjack? That's got to give the player a decent edge over a normal game even if aces don't happen that often.
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. Amarillo Slim Preston
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:26:32 AM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

A ten on split aces counts as a blackjack? That's got to give the player a decent edge over a normal game even if aces don't happen that often.


I don't think it helps a lot. These are 6D, H17 tables as well. Also, not sure if it's paid immediately of has to wait until the dealer resolves their hand. That I've not asked or witnessed.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Doc
Doc
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:27:43 AM permalink
Quote: Rio481

Of course losses will be mitigated with 6:5, and hold will increase.

Percentage hold will increase, but any increase in total hold and improvement in losses will depend entirely on the response of the players and whether enough of them are foolish enough to accept the game, as questioned in the original post.

I am not a card counter at all. I have played 6:5 "blackjack" exactly one time. I played it until the second hand dealt, which was a blackjack for me. I saw the short payout, realized what the game was, got up and walked to another game. No sense at all staying at that table. Craps is a lot more fun than crap.
Rio481
Rio481
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:33:08 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Exactly! MGM Detroit here has 5 blackjack pits. Only one is 6:5 and is ONLY open on Friday and Saturday nights. On top of that, every other hour when the red lights are on, blackjacks revert back to 3:2 and a ten on spilt aces count as blackjack and pay 3:2 as well. If the whole place was 6:5, the place would shutter it's doors.

P.S. Motorcity and Greektown do NOT have any 6:5 blackjack. Greektown did at one point about 5 years ago, but it didn't fly here.



I'm heading to Detroit for business for a few days. Would like to play a bit. Can I find red chip tables at either MGM or Greektown?
Rio481
Rio481
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:34:39 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Percentage hold will increase, but any increase in total hold and improvement in losses will depend entirely on the response of the players and whether enough of them are foolish enough to accept the game, as questioned in the original post.



Precisely, and hence my dismay at the packed 6:5 tables. Clearly the market is saying 6:5 is fine, so total hold will increase.
ams288
ams288
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:35:33 AM permalink
Quote: Rio481

I'm heading to Detroit for business for a few days. Would like to play a bit. Can I find red chip tables at either MGM or Greektown?



Greektown's limits will always be lower than MGM. They always seem to have at least one $10 table.

MGM tends to jack up their limits in the evenings and weekends.
The geniuses who thought HRC was running a child sex ring out of the basement of a pizza shop just can't connect the dots on all this trump-Russia stuff....
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 25th, 2016 at 11:36:23 AM permalink
Quote: Rio481

I'm heading to Detroit for business for a few days. Would like to play a bit. Can I find red chip tables at either MGM or Greektown?


$10 and $15, yes. GT is all CSM. MC is a mix. MGM is all shoes. I stay away from playing tables here and just recreationally play VP.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Rio481
Rio481
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April 25th, 2016 at 12:01:10 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

1. Yes - Agree - it is to increase hold! ...to counteract loss of hold primarily from card counting. If there were no AP on a game that otherwise holds fine, then no action would have been necessary.


So you're arguing that the casinos are trying to increase hold on low limit tables (by adding 6:5 to CSM, 8 decks, 60% penetration, no surrender, etc.) to make up for the loss on high limit tables???? Sorry, but that makes no sense. If the high limit tables are losing money to APs the casinos would put the countermeasures there. And they have, but notice they didn't add 6:5. BECAUSE IT'S NOT A COUNTERMEASURE!!! They understand 6:5 turns away the educated gambler who is more likely to be at the high limit table. They understand that with extremely rare exceptions the card counter is not a significant threat. And they have measures (surveillance, observation, flat-bet, back-off) to identify and mitigate the threat. They also understand that recreational gamblers will look only at the $10 min and ignore the rest of the rules on the placard. Sorry, but that's strike two.

Quote: Paigowdan

2. Adding a 6:5 to a CSM is a waste, and is just borne of stupidity. Just because a man wears a suit doesn't mean he has a brain in his skull, regardless of industry.


Fixed it for you. CSM is the AP countermeasure. 6:5 is a pure revenue play.

Quote: Paigowdan

Your quote: "Of course losses will be mitigated with 6:5..." hence its usage.
There's a lot of disappointing imperfection in gambling and casino operations. Trust me, we're looking at a whole bunch of suits who were rejected by NASA, med school, MIT, their father's business, and Mensa, you name it, though they'll never act like it.....



I'm not saying casino execs are either stupid or evil. They are simply trying to maximize shareholder value. Adding 6:5, CSM, reducing comps, etc are all ideas to increase revenue, and to the degree they work will remain in place. I'm not bashing the casinos, just wish the market wasn't so willing to play along.

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