Poll

5 votes (31.25%)
5 votes (31.25%)
No votes (0%)
6 votes (37.5%)

16 members have voted

Avincow
Avincow
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April 12th, 2015 at 12:35:40 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Cyrus, opinions from players such as yourself are the ones that count........recreational players looking for a little more juice/excitement in a BJ game. Unfortunately that additional excitement normally comes with a bit of a higher HE otherwise the casino's would never take the risk to put them on the floor.



A bit of a higher house edge? The house edge on this game is extraordinary. They aren't even trying here. 22% combined house edge for perfect strategy. The rec players probably aren't playing perfect strategy. Yep, no risk here, just a money grab.
Twirdman
Twirdman
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April 12th, 2015 at 12:46:18 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

A bit of a higher house edge? The house edge on this game is extraordinary. They aren't even trying here. 22% combined house edge for perfect strategy. The rec players probably aren't playing perfect strategy. Yep, no risk here, just a money grab.



I don't think that's right since the side bet is only made when you want to invoke the burn option. So it is not right to say you are always making the burn wager and thus have a 22% house edge.
Avincow
Avincow
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April 12th, 2015 at 2:26:11 PM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

I don't think that's right since the side bet is only made when you want to invoke the burn option. So it is not right to say you are always making the burn wager and thus have a 22% house edge.



Ok, not sure if I understand the game then. I put $10 down on the main game, and then put $5 on the burn bet. If I don't want to burn a card, then the $5 just pushes?
Twirdman
Twirdman
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April 12th, 2015 at 2:36:16 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

Ok, not sure if I understand the game then. I put $10 down on the main game, and then put $5 on the burn bet. If I don't want to burn a card, then the $5 just pushes?



From what I understand you make the burn wager during the hand. So you bet 10. If you want to burn your card you put down another 5.
Avincow
Avincow
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April 12th, 2015 at 3:05:22 PM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

From what I understand you make the burn wager during the hand. So you bet 10. If you want to burn your card you put down another 5.



Okay, so it looks like you make the side bet 20% of the time. So what is that, 6.78% house edge? It's still lame. If you play the main game without the side bet, you're only at a 3% house edge. (check my math plz)

So basic strategy should be to not play the side bet at all!

But at that point, you have to be asking yourself, 'With the abundance of 6:5 blackjack in Vegas, why am I playing 1:1 blackjack? Oh yeah, same reason I don't play 3:2 blackjack: I just don't care'.
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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April 12th, 2015 at 3:47:47 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

Okay, so it looks like you make the side bet 20% of the time. So what is that, 6.78% house edge? It's still lame. If you play the main game without the side bet, you're only at a 3% house edge. (check my math plz)

So basic strategy should be to not play the side bet at all!

But at that point, you have to be asking yourself, 'With the abundance of 6:5 blackjack in Vegas, why am I playing 1:1 blackjack? Oh yeah, same reason I don't play 3:2 blackjack: I just don't care'.



Maybe I am misreading the article but I took it to mean that, with perfect strategy, the total house edge of all money you wager is .73%. The real return on the "side bet" is in fact positive. Yes, the paytable itself is inherently negative, but you only invoke the option to make the side bet when the EV gain on the base game exceeds the expected loss of the side bet.

The burn option is pretty powerful, I don't think that merely going from 3:2 to even money on BJ would be enough to keep the house edge positive.
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Avincow
Avincow
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April 12th, 2015 at 4:24:17 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Maybe I am misreading the article but I took it to mean that, with perfect strategy, the total house edge of all money you wager is .73%. The real return on the "side bet" is in fact positive. Yes, the paytable itself is inherently negative, but you only invoke the option to make the side bet when the EV gain on the base game exceeds the expected loss of the side bet.

The burn option is pretty powerful, I don't think that merely going from 3:2 to even money on BJ would be enough to keep the house edge positive.



Okay, looks like we need some clarification here, Wizard. If I put $10 on the main bet and $5 on the side bet, how much of my $15 am I losing. What is the cumulative house edge if I invoke the side bet at the right times.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 12th, 2015 at 5:06:36 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

Ok, not sure if I understand the game then. I put $10 down on the main game, and then put $5 on the burn bet. If I don't want to burn a card, then the $5 just pushes?



You don't make the Burn bet at the same time as the "main game" but after you and the dealer each get your first two cards. Then you MUST burn if you make the side bet. You would be an absolute fool to ask to make the side as an independent bet, not that it is even an option.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 12th, 2015 at 5:07:21 PM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

I don't think that's right since the side bet is only made when you want to invoke the burn option. So it is not right to say you are always making the burn wager and thus have a 22% house edge.



That is correct.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 12th, 2015 at 5:14:22 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

Okay, looks like we need some clarification here, Wizard. If I put $10 on the main bet and $5 on the side bet, how much of my $15 am I losing. What is the cumulative house edge if I invoke the side bet at the right times.



The overall house edge, as I have it now, is 0.73%. That means that for every $10 you bet on the main bet you can expected to lose 7.3 cents. The house edge is defined as the ratio of the expected loss to the initial wager.

It sounds like what you want to know is the Element of Risk, the ratio of the expected loss to the total amount bet. To answer that, in conventional blackjack the ratio of the final wager to the initial wager is 1.13 on average. It may be more in this game, because players might burn into a hand worth doubling or splitting. However, we'll ignore that. The player will burn 18.5% of hands. Remember, the burn wager is half the amount of the main wager. So, the ratio of the expected loss to the total amount bet is 0.73%/(1 + 0.13 + 0.5*0.185) = 0.60%.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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