sc15
sc15
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January 25th, 2015 at 2:11:20 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I thought I read somewhere (a while ago) that surveillance people were kept almost completely segregated from other casino employees, because a large part of their responsibility was monitoring employees. So much so, that surveillance had separate entrances, to minimimze contact with other employees.



I'm sure some casinos might do stuff like have separate entrances for them, it's unlikely that all casinos (especially smaller ones) do that.

I do see the benefits of that though. If you have employee A investigating employee B for internal theft, you don't really want them talking to each other.
Keyser
Keyser
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January 25th, 2015 at 2:25:48 PM permalink
Quote: sc15

I do see the benefits of that though. If you have employee A investigating employee B for internal theft, you don't really want them talking to each other.



Yes, you're correct. And it get's really interesting when one of them has a hot spot time share property that they like to rent out. But that's a story for another time.
Kerkebet
Kerkebet
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January 25th, 2015 at 2:34:45 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

Unless you're a cocktail waitress, then you likely hate your job in the casino, and you probably suffer from some of the following: moral decay, anxiety, cynicism, and or depression.

Working in casinos really has a devastating effect on most people. Casinos should do more to help people leaving casino employment cope in the outside world.


Casino is just another job/clientele, but it tends to bring out traits in us faster than most.
Nonsense is a very hard thing to keep up. Just ask the Wizard and company.
Kerkebet
Kerkebet
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January 25th, 2015 at 2:41:22 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

And it get's really interesting when one of them has a hot spot time share property that they like to rent out.


I knew a player who was up there in the real world before his wife sued for half of it, and he got into gambling. He knew a lot of the casino higher-ups, and seemed to be able to tell me about my own late night action here and there in the morning, when he came in to play, before I had time to digest it myself.
Nonsense is a very hard thing to keep up. Just ask the Wizard and company.
Wanderer
Wanderer
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January 26th, 2015 at 4:32:25 AM permalink
Quote: Wanderer

So the general consensus here if you get a tap on the shoulder is to politely talk to the person (or persons). If they mention card counting or wanting to take you off the floor to some back room, just respectfully tell them you want to leave and then calmly walk out the door. And if they try to physically prevent you from doing so and detain you, you have a good chance in a lawsuit. And if you have chips, cash them another day on a different shift. Does that sum it up?



Would you resident experts agree with this?
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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January 26th, 2015 at 5:31:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wanderer

Would you resident experts agree with this?

That pretty much sums it up. Don't have an extended conversation. Don't try to get them to change their minds. The less interaction the better.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Romes
Romes
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January 26th, 2015 at 6:50:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wanderer

Would you resident experts agree with this?


In more of a summed up fashion, yes, I would agree with your statement.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Zcore13
Zcore13
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January 26th, 2015 at 6:55:26 AM permalink
It couldn't be any more simple. They tell you they don't want your action anymore. You say, Ok thank you and you leave. If they ask for any ID or any other information say no thank you and continue to leave. That ends 99.9% of all back-offs.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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January 26th, 2015 at 11:36:22 AM permalink
Quote: Wanderer

Quote: Wanderer

So the general consensus here if you get a tap on the shoulder is to politely talk to the person (or persons). If they mention card counting or wanting to take you off the floor to some back room, just respectfully tell them you want to leave and then calmly walk out the door. And if they try to physically prevent you from doing so and detain you, you have a good chance in a lawsuit. And if you have chips, cash them another day on a different shift. Does that sum it up?


Would you resident experts agree with this?


Hesitate to call myself an expert, but yeah that's a good summary. Also don't show ID, as ZCore mentioned.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
stabworld
stabworld
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May 16th, 2015 at 4:01:27 AM permalink
Just got finished reading this whole thread.

I feel compelled not to let this thread end, by adding these 2 you tube videos of this gentleman's force-able backroom situation after denying to produce I.D. Cops were also called to the scene.

WATCH:

Video 1: Casino floor footage of casino personal physically forcing the man into the backroom against his will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBdk1yG2pmU (no audio)

Video 2: backroom with police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlMexfd2e8s (has audio)

Listen to what this cop says: 0:35 - 1:03
(His justification for detainment is all over the place)

Cop says: "Counting cards is what they are accusing you of."

Justin says: "Card counting is legal."

Cop replies: "That might be legal in your mind, but unfortunately not here. There are ordinates - .... mumble.... mumble (not sure what he says after that)."

Cop says: "This is a private establishment, they need your id, to ban you from coming back. You can't leave here until we id who you are."

Thoughts? Opinions? Does he have a chance at a lawsuit?
1BB
1BB
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May 16th, 2015 at 4:29:33 AM permalink
Quote: stabworld

Just got finished reading this whole thread.

I feel compelled not to let this thread end, by adding these 2 you tube videos of this gentleman's force-able backroom situation after denying to produce I.D. Cops were also called to the scene.

WATCH:

Video 1: Casino floor footage of casino personal physically forcing the man into the backroom against his will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBdk1yG2pmU (no audio)

Video 2: backroom with police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlMexfd2e8s (has audio)

Listen to what this cop says: 0:35 - 1:03
(His justification for detainment is all over the place)

Cop says: "Counting cards is what they are accusing you of."

Justin says: "Card counting is legal."

Cop replies: "That might be legal in your mind, but unfortunately not here. There are ordinates - .... mumble.... mumble (not sure what he says after that)."

Cop says: "This is a private establishment, they need your id, to ban you from coming back. You can't leave here until we id who you are."

Thoughts? Opinions? Does he have a chance at a lawsuit?



I believe the case is winding through the courts at this time. Justin Mills is a member of a few forums including Norm's.

On the day of his run in, the casino sent a limo to pick him up. He was on his own for the ride home. :-(
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
RS
RS
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May 16th, 2015 at 4:47:40 AM permalink
Hopefully Justin wins the case and gets a nice payday.

Unfortunately, I think he may have some trouble there, since he wasn't assaulted or roughed up. Of course, he was illegally detained....but I don't know how much he would get just from that (I don't think very much).
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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May 16th, 2015 at 5:04:23 AM permalink
Does anyone know what happened with that family in AC that got attacked at the casino by security? The one that involved a 17 year old girl. I remember someone was trollishly defending the casino.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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May 16th, 2015 at 6:20:15 AM permalink
Quote: 1BB

On the day of his run in, the casino sent a limo to pick him up



Which means that they didn't actually need to get his ID
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Konbu
Konbu
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May 16th, 2015 at 7:52:02 AM permalink
Anyway an interesting read and my not too useful 2 cents is:

I don't know how to count cards. But my position is if you're not using any devices (other than your brain) to count it should not be illegal or against the house rules unless otherwise posted. Or like someone mentioned if casinos really don't want anyone using skill to gain an advantage in a game of chance then the game needs to be modified to neutralize the real/perceived advantage.

Of course casinos are businesses and want to rake in your money, not bleed to you long term. So they will be sleazy and allow sheeps to play but mess with you smart cunning coyotes that really know how to count.

My favorite games are: Craps > PGP (with $5 bonus every hand) >>>>>> then much farther down my interest level:> LIR > Roulette > Bac/BJ.

As I shall forever remain a sheep in the gambling world, I think I will continue to be welcome.
I CD-ROM.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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May 16th, 2015 at 8:50:21 AM permalink
Quote: 1BB

I believe the case is winding through the courts at this time. Justin Mills is a member of a few forums including Norm's.

On the day of his run in, the casino sent a limo to pick him up. He was on his own for the ride home. :-(


It makes you wonder if the casino already knew he was a counter, and baited him into coming by sending the limo.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
RS
RS
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May 16th, 2015 at 11:39:47 AM permalink
A "smart cunning coyote"....I like the sounds of that.


Wait is it ka-yo-tea or ka-yoat?
EvenBob
EvenBob
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May 16th, 2015 at 1:40:22 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

It couldn't be any more simple. They tell you they don't want your action anymore. You say, Ok thank you and you leave. If they ask for any ID or any other information say no thank you and continue to leave. That ends 99.9% of all back-offs.

ZCore13



I got backed off roulette a couple weeks
ago on a Fri night because I wasn't betting
every spin. A PitDick came up and said 'bet
every spin or leave the table.' I said, if I
argue, what will happen. He said 'what do
you think will happen.' I cashed in and left.

I saw his point. All the color was gone and
people were waiting for an opening and
I'm not betting every spin. On Fri they care,
during the week it never happens.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Zcore13
Zcore13
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May 16th, 2015 at 4:46:36 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I got backed off roulette a couple weeks
ago on a Fri night because I wasn't betting
every spin. A PitDick came up and said 'bet
every spin or leave the table.' I said, if I
argue, what will happen. He said 'what do
you think will happen.' I cashed in and left.

I saw his point. All the color was gone and
people were waiting for an opening and
I'm not betting every spin. On Fri they care,
during the week it never happens.



Yup. Pretty simple way to handle it. You didn't cause a scene and/or give them a chance to make one. You now have the choice to go back and play some other time or not.

Is there a rule anywhere that says one has to play every roll? No. Could you have caused a scene asking them where that rule is? Of course. But why bother. It's rarely (very rarely) a winning battle.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Konbu
Konbu
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May 16th, 2015 at 4:49:58 PM permalink
Quote: RS

A "smart cunning coyote"....I like the sounds of that.


Wait is it ka-yo-tea or ka-yoat?


Haha I say "ko-yo-tea" for the animal and "co-yo-te" Spanish for the smuggler. Never pronounced it "ka-yoat."
I CD-ROM.
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