How to deal with social pressure to make bad plays?
Surprisingly I only get almost no pressure when I take insurance, except a statement of (Insurance is a bad bet, you should never take it). That is despite insurance was the most profitable plays of all my contested plays (TC was about +6 after half the shoe). I got some moderate amount of pressure/comments when I hit 12 vs 2 and 12 vs 3. I got heavy amount of pressure/comments when I hit S18 against 10. I got extreme amount of pressure when I wanted to split 10/10 vs 5. So much pressure that I ended up not doing it. 5 people, including 2 dealers, told me "you never split a winning hand" "you never split 10s" etc. One guy even said "especially against a dealer 5" and I was thinking internally wtf is this guy's problem, 5 is the 2nd best hand to split against. I guess I acted too stupidly everyone thought they'd help me out. The TC was ~+5.3, so I thought it was kinda a borderline decision so I ended up standing and the dealer busted (was for f**king $100 as well, coulda earned an extra $100).
Most of this pressure to make bad plays came from a guy at the table who doesn't double 11s or split aces because he thinks only getting 1 card makes you lose more.
Wow.
The Dealer at that point and especially the Floor should be there to tell the other(s) at the table to mind their own business.
ZCore13
Having said that, I think that you need the right act to split 10s and not get pegged as a counter. Most people probably shouldn't split them regardless of the count.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhy do you care what others at the table say?
Having said that, I think that you need the right act to split 10s and not get pegged as a counter. Most people probably shouldn't split them regardless of the count.
It's making me not know how to act. It's just awkward as hell when I had the S18 and I signaled a hit and 3 people including the dealer simultaneously said "18!" and I said "yeah hit", got a 3, dealer turned over a 10 and I won. And the "don't split aces" guy said "that was really lucky, don't do it again".
Btw does anyone know if there's a index of when you should stand S18 V 10 in H17 games?
Quote: NeutrinoIt's making me not know how to act. It's just awkward as hell when I had the S18 and I signaled a hit and 3 people including the dealer simultaneously said "18!" and I said "yeah hit", got a 3, dealer turned over a 10 and I won. And the "don't split aces" guy said "that was really lucky, don't do it again".
Act like you would any time someone acts like an asshole towards you in the real world.
Quote:Btw does anyone know if there's a index of when you should stand S18 V 10 in H17 games?
If the deck is all 7's you should stand.
Wait a minute. I thought you said that one of the benefits of Aspergers is that you are unaffected by peer pressure. Maybe I misunderstood.Quote: NeutrinoIt's making me not know how to act. It's just awkward as hell when I had the S18 and I signaled a hit and 3 people including the dealer simultaneously said "18!" and I said "yeah hit", got a 3, dealer turned over a 10 and I won. And the "don't split aces" guy said "that was really lucky, don't do it again".
Quote: IbeatyouracesWell no poop! LOL.
And if the hole card is a 2-6, you double ;-)
Technically mine is possible to know only by counting.
I wonder what the true count of 7's would have to be to make this a stand. You can also use that count for 14 v 10.
Quote: NeutrinoI was just at the casino playing blackjack. I play perfect basic strategy and use hi-lo for counting. Yesterday's session in particular, I received heavy social pressure when I'm making the right plays from the other people at the table and the dealer.
Surprisingly I only get almost no pressure when I take insurance, except a statement of (Insurance is a bad bet, you should never take it). That is despite insurance was the most profitable plays of all my contested plays (TC was about +6 after half the shoe). I got some moderate amount of pressure/comments when I hit 12 vs 2 and 12 vs 3. I got heavy amount of pressure/comments when I hit S18 against 10. I got extreme amount of pressure when I wanted to split 10/10 vs 5. So much pressure that I ended up not doing it. 5 people, including 2 dealers, told me "you never split a winning hand" "you never split 10s" etc. One guy even said "especially against a dealer 5" and I was thinking internally wtf is this guy's problem, 5 is the 2nd best hand to split against. I guess I acted too stupidly everyone thought they'd help me out. The TC was ~+5.3, so I thought it was kinda a borderline decision so I ended up standing and the dealer busted (was for f**king $100 as well, coulda earned an extra $100).
Most of this pressure to make bad plays came from a guy at the table who doesn't double 11s or split aces because he thinks only getting 1 card makes you lose more.
Wow.
There are other players at the table? I wish I could take credit for that one but it's been around for years.
Why are you playing with so many other players? Is it that crowded?
A 5 is not the second best dealer's up card to split against, it is the best.
You've heard the saying that only idiots and card counters split 10s. Here's a little something to ease into it. Split 10s a couple of times with your base bet out. It won't cost much and you may even win. Be sure the pit is watching when you do. The point is to establish yourself as another "idiot". That may make it easier to split them when your max bet is out. I suggest caution whenever making that play. You really must know your casino's tolerance. It varies greatly from casino to casino and even from pit to pit.
I never discuss strategy at the table and the 12 vs 2 or 3 is a perfect example of why I don't. If you think you get comments for hitting those hands wait until you hit them one time and stay on them another. It's bound to happen sooner rather than later. I just mumble something about a hunch or my gut. Why are you hitting those hands at TC +6?
Quote: JimRockfordWait a minute. I thought you said that one of the benefits of Aspergers is that you are unaffected by peer pressure. Maybe I misunderstood.
I am unaffected by peer pressure, that's completely right.
But this isn't peer pressure per se, if I act badly heat and sweat will be incoming. Honestly if card counting isn't an issue at the casino I will just respond in the same way if someone says something retarded to me in the poker table, which I have many ways of responding depending on the situation.
In other words it doesn't affect me internally but does affect my act
Quote: 1BBThere are other players at the table? I wish I could take credit for that one but it's been around for years.
Why are you playing with so many other players? Is it that crowded?
A 5 is not the second best dealer's up card to split against, it is the best.
You've heard the saying that only idiots and card counters split 10s. Here's a little something to ease into it. Split 10s a couple of times with your base bet out. It won't cost much and you may even win. Be sure the pit is watching when you do. The point is to establish yourself as another "idiot". That may make it easier to split them when your max bet is out. I suggest caution whenever making that play. You really must know your casino's tolerance. It varies greatly from casino to casino and even from pit to pit.
I never discuss strategy at the table and the 12 vs 2 or 3 is a perfect example of why I don't. If you think you get comments for hitting those hands wait until you hit them one time and stay on them another. It's bound to happen sooner rather than later. I just mumble something about a hunch or my gut. Why are you hitting those hands at TC +6?
Opps! What was I thinking lol, I totally forgot I was supposed to stand 12 vs 2/3 at TC+6 lol. Thanks for catching my mistake! I would not have caught it myself.
As for other players, I wong in at about TC+2 so since I need to wong, I always join tables with other people.
And isn't 6 the dealer card with highest dealer bust chance?
Quote: NeutrinoOpps! What was I thinking lol, I totally forgot I was supposed to stand 12 vs 2/3 at TC+6 lol. Thanks for catching my mistake! I would not have caught it myself.
As for other players, I wong in at about TC+2 so since I need to wong, I always join tables with other people.
And isn't 6 the dealer card with highest dealer bust chance?
If you can really get away with only playing counts of +2 or more, I'd suggest not varying your play at all. Just make all the index plays for +3 or below all the time. You are not giving up very much and it will help your longevity. It will also make you look like an idiot.
Maybe sim this before trying it but I'm sure it's a good win rate.
Sounds like my thoughts, but Neutrinohas to also look the dealer in the eye and say "Do it!" Just repeat the same thing, "I'm feeling lucky, do it".Quote: DRichMy standard response to others that are questioning my play is "I only do this when I am feeling lucky".
Quote: NeutrinoOpps! What was I thinking lol, I totally forgot I was supposed to stand 12 vs 2/3 at TC+6 lol. Thanks for catching my mistake! I would not have caught it myself.
As for other players, I wong in at about TC+2 so since I need to wong, I always join tables with other people.
And isn't 6 the dealer card with highest dealer bust chance?
I don't bother with that type of statistic but it looks like you may be right about the 6, Nuetrino. I was looking at it as the dealer could have an ace under the 6 and not have to hit in a S17 game. I see that it's very close for the 5 and 6.
Quote: NeutrinoI was just at the casino playing blackjack. I play perfect basic strategy and use hi-lo for counting. Yesterday's session in particular, I received heavy social pressure when I'm making the right plays from the other people at the table and the dealer.
Surprisingly I only get almost no pressure when I take insurance, except a statement of (Insurance is a bad bet, you should never take it). That is despite insurance was the most profitable plays of all my contested plays (TC was about +6 after half the shoe). I got some moderate amount of pressure/comments when I hit 12 vs 2 and 12 vs 3. I got heavy amount of pressure/comments when I hit S18 against 10. I got extreme amount of pressure when I wanted to split 10/10 vs 5. So much pressure that I ended up not doing it. 5 people, including 2 dealers, told me "you never split a winning hand" "you never split 10s" etc. One guy even said "especially against a dealer 5" and I was thinking internally wtf is this guy's problem, 5 is the 2nd best hand to split against. I guess I acted too stupidly everyone thought they'd help me out. The TC was ~+5.3, so I thought it was kinda a borderline decision so I ended up standing and the dealer busted (was for f**king $100 as well, coulda earned an extra $100).
Most of this pressure to make bad plays came from a guy at the table who doesn't double 11s or split aces because he thinks only getting 1 card makes you lose more.
Wow.
Do it anyway. 12v2/3: "The deuce is the dealer's Ace.....I'm supposed to hit 12 against an Ace right?" or "How am I supposed to win with a 12? This hand sucks!"
Splitting TT: "I'm feeling lucky....the dealer's gonna bust anyway." or make some comment about trying to change the flow of the cards. :)
I have to play the way the voices tell me to play.
No, I always hit that combination particularly when the table faces West.
"My strategy is if anyone at the table tells me how to play, I automatically do the opposite just to piss them off."
Seriously though. Tell the others to worry about their own hand.
Quote: NeutrinoIt's making me not know how to act. It's just awkward as hell when I had the S18 and I signaled a hit and 3 people including the dealer simultaneously said "18!" and I said "yeah hit", got a 3, dealer turned over a 10 and I won. And the "don't split aces" guy said "that was really lucky, don't do it again".
Tell him you'll "be splitting tens the next time I get them."
Quote: FleaStiffI'm terribly sorry, I don't speak a word of English.
I have to play the way the voices tell me to play.
No, I always hit that combination particularly when the table faces West.
Quote: AxelWolfNo speak English. End of story.
I don't know how to pull that off or what accent I should use considering I look like a very standard american
Then learn how to sign i'm deaf. They wont want to talk to you and casino personnel will be scared of a lawsuit.Quote: NeutrinoI don't know how to pull that off or what accent I should use considering I look like a very standard american
Quote: DeucekiesThe line I use when I'm dealing (I don't actually do this):
"My strategy is if anyone at the table tells me how to play, I automatically do the opposite just to piss them off.
You should stand on that hard 21. (Which, yes, I've seen that hit. He ended up with a beautiful 31, and I doubled to a glorious 13.)
There are two negatives to letting pit/dealer know that you even know basic strategy. 1.) when playing rated, you will get less rating and less comps. A lot of people don't know that two players, both wagering identical amounts, will earn different ratings based on how they play. Bad players earn the most, good players earn the least. 2.) Once pit/dealer knows that you know basic strategy, the next logical step is to figure out just what else you know. In other words, you have started to draw their attention, and as I rule I try hard not to do so. I am certainly not going to 'out' myself just to quiet some know-it-all at the table. I don't have the need to shut him up. Let him think what he like. It's enough for me to KNOW that in the long run, I will make money and he will lose money.
Now the wise crack "don't speak english", or "I am going to split 10's too, get used to it", type responses are equally a negative for me. Those type of comments can escalate into an argument or loud discussion, and that means I have unnecessarily drawn attention to myself, which is against my whole battle plan. I try to get in and get out drawing minimal attention. I'd like to be forgotten 15 seconds after I have walked away. And one more thing about any kind of smart ass type comeback. You don't know who you are dealing with. It only takes one nut job (and the casinos are full of them) with too much alcohol in him, playing with rent money that he can't afford to lose, to blame you for his troubles and pull a gun on you in the parking lot. This may seem like an extreme example, and it is, but why invite ANY risk, when there is no benefit. Especially if you are carrying any kind of money.
The bottom line for me, is that I am not there to make friends OR enemies. I am there to make money.
Quote: Neutrino"you never split 10s"
Last time I split queens, I think I got a round of applause.
Drew an ace on the first, 10 on the second. Dealer was flat out stunned, and said "I guess if you're gonna do it, that's the way to do it."
Considered a resplit, but my draws dropped things from "yes" to "marginal".
Three players after me hit. Those next three cards out would have made the dealer get 21. She ended up busting out instead.
My line is "I try and only do it when I think it's good for everybody."
And really, if you get a suited pair, it's just a sign that it's time to split 'em.*
*Don't believe this. I heard it's unlucky to be superstitious.
Quote: VenthusYou should stand on that hard 21. (Which, yes, I've seen that hit. He ended up with a beautiful 31, and I doubled to a glorious 13.)
http://dank1.buzznet.com/user/video/35312/peter-griffin-awesome-blackjack-player/
this?
Quote: kewljIt only takes one nut job (and the casinos are full of them) with too much alcohol in him, playing with rent money that he can't afford to lose, to blame you for his troubles and pull a gun on you in the parking lot. This may seem like an extreme example, and it is, but why invite ANY risk, when there is no benefit. Especially if you are carrying any kind of money.
Regardless of how true/false that statement is, I'd say blackjack players are no where close to poker players when it comes to danger from nut jobs+ rent money + guns.
If poker players like Tony G and Mike Matusow can make it out alive after their poker plays, I'd say it's not something an average poker player has to worry about.
Oh, that is the whole idea of it. You don't say it in any particular strange accent; you say it in your standard tone of voice. Often takes them a little time to react and sometimes they are not so sure of what is going on.Quote: NeutrinoI don't know how to pull that off or what accent I should use considering I look like a very standard American
Quote: Neutrinohttp://dank1.buzznet.com/user/video/35312/peter-griffin-awesome-blackjack-player/
this?
Ha ha! That doesn't look like the Peter Griffin who is in the Blackjack Hall of Fame. Good one!
At least, that's what the guy next to me said when he was splitting his 5's. Drew a face on each and stood with 15s against a dealer 8.
I did not make my double. The dealer did not break.
It was actually fun playing next to him; I know I made money. He was playing stupid, but it was working.
Quote: NeutrinoI play perfect basic strategy and use hi-lo for counting. Yesterday's session in particular, I received heavy social pressure when I'm making the right plays from the other people at the table and the dealer.
Surprisingly I only get almost no pressure when I take insurance, except a statement of (Insurance is a bad bet, you should never take it). That is despite insurance was the most profitable plays of all my contested plays (TC was about +6 after half the shoe). I got some moderate amount of pressure/comments when I hit 12 vs 2 and 12 vs 3. I got heavy amount of pressure/comments when I hit S18 against 10. I got extreme amount of pressure when I wanted to split 10/10 vs 5. So much pressure that I ended up not doing it. 5 people, including 2 dealers, told me "you never split a winning hand" "you never split 10s" etc. One guy even said "especially against a dealer 5" and I was thinking internally wtf is this guy's problem, 5 is the 2nd best hand to split against. I guess I acted too stupidly everyone thought they'd help me out. The TC was ~+5.3, so I thought it was kinda a borderline decision so I ended up standing and the dealer busted (was for f**king $100 as well, coulda earned an extra $100).
Most of this pressure to make bad plays came from a guy at the table who doesn't double 11s or split aces because he thinks only getting 1 card makes you lose more.
(statements in "quotes" are sarcastic)
My thoughts:
Taking insurance (except taking "even money" vs. BJ) and splitting XX's are two of the BIGGEST giveaways when identifying card counters. You may want to avoid taking insurance when you have a hand of 19 or less (even if the count justifies it) and take insurance more frequently when you have 20 or BJ (because you have to "protect those good hands"). Players probably don't bother you about insurance because it doesn't "ruin the order of the cards", while splitting XX's "does".
While hitting soft 18 vs. 9, X, A is the proper BS play, a lot of players don't do it because it "ruins their hand". I have even been told by another player don't do it... yeah I know that Basic Strategy says to hit, but you still shouldn't do it because it ruins your hand .
Players don't hit 12 vs. 2 or 3 in Blackjack (but you will see them hit it a bit more often in Spanish 21) because a bust in an "automatic loss", while a hand that is stood on can "still be won" if the dealer busts.
Yes, I know that other players can be upset, rude, and complaining when you "play wrong". Try to ignore them as best as you can. However, try to avoid explaining Basic Strategy to them because you don't want to look like a smart player. Overall, I would advise wonging out when the count gets too low by saying something like "okay, if you think I'm playing wrong, I'll sit out and come back on the next shoe", "I need to get some air", "I need to take a piss", etc. It seems to me like you need to put in more disguise plays to avoid attracting too much attention. I hope this helps. Replies appreciated.
Quote: nvr55xx(statements in "quotes" are sarcastic)
My thoughts:
Taking insurance (except taking "even money" vs. BJ) and splitting XX's are two of the BIGGEST giveaways when identifying card counters. You may want to avoid taking insurance when you have a hand of 19 or less (even if the count justifies it) and take insurance more frequently when you have 20 or BJ (because you have to "protect those good hands"). Players probably don't bother you about insurance because it doesn't "ruin the order of the cards", while splitting XX's "does".
While hitting soft 18 vs. 9, X, A is the proper BS play, a lot of players don't do it because it "ruins their hand". I have even been told by another player don't do it... yeah I know that Basic Strategy says to hit, but you still shouldn't do it because it ruins your hand .
Players don't hit 12 vs. 2 or 3 in Blackjack (but you will see them hit it a bit more often in Spanish 21) because a bust in an "automatic loss", while a hand that is stood on can "still be won" if the dealer busts.
Yes, I know that other players can be upset, rude, and complaining when you "play wrong". Try to ignore them as best as you can. However, try to avoid explaining Basic Strategy to them because you don't want to look like a smart player. Overall, I would advise wonging out when the count gets too low by saying something like "okay, if you think I'm playing wrong, I'll sit out and come back on the next shoe", "I need to get some air", "I need to take a piss", etc. It seems to me like you need to put in more disguise plays to avoid attracting too much attention. I hope this helps. Replies appreciated.
This sounds like you plan to be there for a long while. I would much rather do everything perfectly, get a score, and get out. I'm not going to screw up insurance plays because it might look fishy to a camera who may or may not be paying attention. I will concede that not splitting the tens is probably fine especially since you're doing it so rarely anyway.
If they give you any of the "book is crap" crap, tell them you're friends with the author. If you have them, hand out a WoO/WoV business card. Don't have any? Ask Mike.
Though I never tried to justify my play but sometimes it becomes really annoying.
