SLS BLACKJACK RULES

From COO Rob Oseland SLS

SLS Las Vegas Hotel & Casino wrote: here are our full rules on black jack:
Single Deck 6:5 (No Surrender)
· Hit Soft 17
· Split Aces up to 2 hands
· Double Down and Split on any first 2 cards

Double Deck 3:2 (No Surrender)
· Hit Soft 17
· Split Aces up to 2 hands
· Double Down and Split on any first 2 cards

Six Deck 3:2
· Hit Soft 17 (Main Floor)
· Stand on soft 17 (High Limit)
· Surrender Allowed
· Split Aces up to 4 hands
· Double Down and Split any first 2 cards

No 8 Deck Shoes

""We'll offer a few minimum $5 games, but the majority of game will be $10 minimums. Maximum limits between $5k and $10K."

No double after split, even on shoe games?

deleted

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

This place won't survive.

I have to agree. Trying to be Cosmo light but in a bad location.

I told this to the pit at the Cromwell, and in case they read this before day one, let me announce my opinion here:

You don't get a second chance to make first impressions.

The game that I know is craps, and here are my suggestions for success for setting up a craps table at the SLS:

#1) Pay triple on the 12 in the field
#2) Pay 31-for-1 and 16-for-1 on the prop bets
#3) Offer the bonus craps feature bets
#4) Put the big 6 and big 8 bets on there .. ABSOLUTELY no harm!
#5) Offer 5x (or 10x to compete with Strat AND Wynn) odds on $25 tables and double odds on $10 tables -- take from the fleas and turn THEM away while giving better deals to the whales
- use two interchangeable (non-electronic even is fine) classy signs
#6) Offer $5,000 maximum bets on every table no matter the minimum bet

Once the word is out that there is no better bets in the SLS than there is at the Stratosphere, you've done absolutely nothing to improve the betting options on that street corner. You need some lucky gamblers and some stories of people winning big money to get that place going.

Anybody hear any stories about people winning money at the Cromwell? Anybody hear any stories about any good deals gambling there?

OF COURSE NOT! Gamblers are looking for something -- ANYTHING -- new in terms of high limit play in a classy casino. You need something to attract the whales from the Wynn's craps tables and keep them there. 5x odds on $25 and up is enough to do it. These whales aren't all that smart, but they will jump at 5x odds with bonus craps, and you can get some of that business if you don't start in neutral gear like Cromwell.

Wait a minute now guys. 6 deck, no DAS...yeah that's not great, but surrender more than makes up for it, especially for a counter, who surrenders more of his larger losing bets. But the real key and what's not mentioned is of course PENETRATION. With decent penetration both the 6 deck and DD could be playable for me.

I'm thinking the lack of double after splitting, at least in the shoe, is a mistake. Where else can you not DAS in a shoe? MSS, California and Fremont are the only ones that come to mind.

I assume OP got this answer from my Q&A with SLS. I am going to ask them a follow up with this as a question.

Quote: kewlj

what's not mentioned is of course PENETRATION.

When have you ever seen a house advertise their penetration?

Quote: Dieter

When have you ever seen a house advertise their penetration?

Very rarely. And I wouldn't expect it here. That was not my point. My point was that based on these rules, people are responding that the game is bad or unplayable. I am just saying rules alone, are secondary in determining what is playable and unplayable for me. Deep penetration can over come crappy rules. But good rules rarely can overcome crappy penetration. I know one 6 deck game here in Vegas that has real good rules. But they cut of 3 and a half decks. yes they play 2.5 of 6 decks and then shuffle. That's about 42% penetration. Lol Those real good rules ain't doing much for me.

Quote: kewlj

Quote: Dieter

When have you ever seen a house advertise their penetration?

Very rarely. And I wouldn't expect it here. That was not my point. My point was that based on these rules, people are responding that the game is bad or unplayable. I am just saying rules alone, are secondary in determining what is playable and unplayable for me. Deep penetration can over come crappy rules. But good rules rarely can overcome crappy penetration. I know one 6 deck game here in Vegas that has real good rules. But they cut of 3 and a half decks. yes they play 2.5 of 6 decks and then shuffle. That's about 42% penetration. Lol Those real good rules ain't doing much for me.

How good are we talking? They can't be better than the MGM/Mirage property high limit games?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Quote: kewlj

Quote: Dieter

When have you ever seen a house advertise their penetration?

Very rarely. And I wouldn't expect it here. That was not my point. My point was that based on these rules, people are responding that the game is bad or unplayable. I am just saying rules alone, are secondary in determining what is playable and unplayable for me. Deep penetration can over come crappy rules. But good rules rarely can overcome crappy penetration. I know one 6 deck game here in Vegas that has real good rules. But they cut of 3 and a half decks. yes they play 2.5 of 6 decks and then shuffle. That's about 42% penetration. Lol Those real good rules ain't doing much for me.

How good are we talking? They can't be better than the MGM/Mirage property high limit games?

About as far away from MGM/Mirage high limit game as you can get......I am talking the $3 Longhorn game. (Double on 3 cards, 5-2 on BJ in diamonds)

Quote: kewlj

About as far away from MGM/Mirage high limit game as you can get......I am talking the $3 Longhorn game. (Double on 3 cards, 5-2 on BJ in diamonds)

Sounds like a fun game. What's the max bet? Is it beatable? What's the house edge off the top, anwyay?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Sounds like a fun game. What's the max bet? Is it beatable? What's the house edge off the top, anwyay?

It's really not worth the effort. I only play when I have matchplay coupons from ACG that I have to use. They are just toooo low limit. The BJ bonus (5-2) is only paid on your first $5 bet. Locals play $2 or $3, coin chips. anything larger than $10 stands out. Bet $25 and they think you are a high roller. Dealers are notorious tip whores. It's just not even fun.

I have it on good authority, that we (myself included) are misinterpreting that "double or split on first two cards only" statement, and that it does not actually mean first two cards received, but first two cards of any hand, including split hands. This would mean that DAS is indeed allowed.

Quote: Dieter

When have you ever seen a house advertise their penetration?

It could be effective. Who knows?

Quote: Ad

Single deck with butterfly leg over shoulders style penetration happy hour.

Quote: kewlj

I have it on good authority, that we (myself included) are misinterpreting that "double or split on first two cards only" statement, and that it does not actually mean first two cards received, but first two cards of any hand, including split hands. This would mean that DAS is indeed allowed.

Yesterday, I made a wager with another WoV forum member.

I have [YES] double after split will be allowed on SLS shoe games.

I will have more info after next Friday (starting date) but I'm almost 100% sure that there will be doubling after split hands allowed.

Seems to me at first inspection that both the high limit and floor 6 deck games are not too bad at all.

I can't see them being at $5 though, perhaps some CSM's if they decide to have those.

Will keep you posted if I'm allowed to :)

I would bet that DAS is allowed on shoe games. Seems like they just forgot to highlight it in that little write up of their rules...

Quote: Ahigh

Quote: Dieter

When have you ever seen a house advertise their penetration?

It could be effective. Who knows?

I think it would be remarkably effective. Instead of the advertising saying "we offer a variety of premier table games, including blackjack", actually listing the house rules, table limits, and typical penetration on the website would go a long way to court the savvy player.

I understand that these things will change from time to time, so you say "The table limits and rules are subject to change; if concerned, please call us to confirm the current table rules and limits."

Now if they want to spin it, to say that "because we shuffle after playing 4 decks of the 8 deck shoe, you're never stuck with a long horrible run of cards... unlike our competitors, who won't shuffle until after another two and a half decks of bad luck!" well, that's ... creative.

Such a policy would violate the three most important guidelines in casino management :

You can't cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break or
smarten up a chump.
-- W.C. Fields