Getting Grief on A7 Hits

I typically play a DD game where when holding A7 or Soft 18, basic strategy calls for a hit against a dealer 9, 10 or A.

I commonly get grief from the players as well as the dealer.

Anyone else get the same criticism?

Yeah. And I also often get punished for the hit as the hand plays out.
But stick to your guns.
I play my hand as I see fit.

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I get grief anytime I double a soft hand...

What the "players" tell me is that doubling a soft hand is what "the casino wants you to do so you lose twice the amount of money"

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I'm quite used to it, but wanted to vent! Can we just call it "Ploppy Logic" and be done with it?!

I'm aware that it is the correct play, but I always first think to myself "here we go again..." I do feel badly when people are playing black chips and I take the rap for the loss.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The worst is when you double it against a 2 in a H17 game.

I forgot about the same grief on the doubles. Most players don't know it is an advantageous hand.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

In a S17 game you stand, in a H17 game it becomes a double.

My ninja edit was not quick enough. I misread your original post.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

$h!t happens, :)

Like the kind we receive for doubling an A7 against dealer 6? ;)

Quote: Paigowdan

I play my hand as I see fit.

Excellent response Dan. A player should play their hand as they see fit and wager as they see fit, within the limits posted. I am sure you agree. :-)

Quote: DealerSix

I typically play a DD game where when holding A7 or Soft 18, basic strategy calls for a hit against a dealer 9, 10 or A.

I commonly get grief from the players as well as the dealer.

Anyone else get the same criticism?

Ask the know it alls if they want to buy your hand. That usually shuts them up.

I don't discuss strategy at the table other than a few moves. Hate it when I tell someone to hit 12 vs 2 only to stay on it myself later in the shoe. :-)

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Quote: DealerSix

Like the kind we receive for doubling an A7 against dealer 6? ;)

I got that at Foxwoods once. I was on third base, received a face card for my double, the dealer flipped over a 10, and his next card was a 5, for 21. The punk next to me jumped up from his seat and started yelling everything you could imagine, while a crowd of people who wanted to see the "idiot that doubled on 18" began to amass. I knew it was pointless to try to defend myself so I just sat there and took it, although I know my face turned very red. It was that incident which made me decide that I would never play blackjack again unless the only other person at the table was the dealer.

Ploppies will be ploppies.

Its worse when I double A8 vs 6 (H17); then watch dealer make 21. The ploppies heads nearly pop off.

Quote: kewlj

Excellent response Dan. A player should play their hand as they see fit and wager as they see fit, within the limits posted. I am sure you agree. :-)

Hey!.....[I see what you're alluding to....] [cough! ack, ack!]

I get this with hitting 12 against 2 or 3

also offering the dealer insurance. actually no on that one but it did break the grumpy dealer into laughter.

Quote: djatc

I get this with hitting 12 against 2 or 3

also offering the dealer insurance. actually no on that one but it did break the grumpy dealer into laughter.

Hah, I thought I was the only one that did that, I mostly get groans.

I don't know, maybe I'm a bit mental, but for me, part of the fun of playing with the ploppies is watching them get upset when I make a proper move that goes against their line of thinking. I derive some kind if twisted pleasure from watching them get angry over something that in truth, has no affect on them whatsoever (even if they feel differently).

If I get a 12 vs. 2 or 3 and Hit, people at the table will tell me, "You have to stand! The dealer's gonna bust! Next time you gotta stand!" I say, "I'm not an expert, I don't really play that often." Then, the next 12 vs. 2 or 3 comes, and I Hit again, and they look at me like, "What... the... f--k!!"

I doubled on H14 vs a 6 and drew a 7 once. The table still won, but I've been watched ever since.

Blackjack players are some of the worst people to gamble with. We complain about everything. Every thing from people who ask what to do, to those people having a good time. I've learned to ignore most players. I will still be upset if someone splits 10's to 4 hands if I'm down. "What the Hell do you want?". So many times that player breaks even or wins all 4 hands while everyone else loses. I've only seen it a few times and no one ever gets rocks. They're usually 17-20.

Quote: wroberson

I doubled on H14 vs a 6 and drew a 7 once. The table still won, but I've been watched ever since.

Blackjack players are some of the worst people to gamble with. We complain about everything. Every thing from people who ask what to do, to those people having a good time. I've learned to ignore most players. I will still be upset if someone splits 10's to 4 hands if I'm down. "What the Hell do you want?". So many times that player breaks even or wins all 4 hands while everyone else loses. I've only seen it a few times and no one ever gets rocks. They're usually 17-20.

Many professionals and APs split 10s when it is called for. I'm sure you've heard that blackjack is not a team sport. I don't know of any serious players who would double a hard 14.

That may have prevented another round from being dealt in a positive shoe and someone at the table may have been thinking "What the heck do you want?" You didn't say you had next card information so I'm assuming that was not the case. Why would they possibly be watching you?

Quote: 1BB

Many professionals and APs split 10s when it is called for. I'm sure you've heard that blackjack is not a team sport. I don't know of any serious players who would double a hard 14.

That may have prevented another round from being dealt in a positive shoe and someone at the table may have been thinking "What the heck do you want?" You didn't say you had next card information so I'm assuming that was not the case. Why would they possibly be watching you?

I had not heard that "blackjack is not a team sport". I like that. " There is no "we" in "blackjack" (ala "there is no 'I' in 'team')"

You got it!

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Yeah, I seem to take one for the team a little too often.

Right, I figure the conventional wisdom over the years has gone...

Each player against the dealer when the game first appears.

Good players notice that when they play more than one hand in +EV situations, they can capitalize on the trend.

Expert players figure out the above is predictable, that the deck/shoe is countable and bet accordingly.

Really smart people figure out that they can game the math even further with team play.

Joe Ploppies who think they know more than they do hear about all this around casinos, in the news, in the popular culture. The game has now transitioned in their minds from player vs. dealer to table vs. dealer, which means they somehow know exactly how everyone should play their hands and they're somehow free to tell other people how to risk their money (in which they themselves have no stake, their opinion on that to the contrary).

The really good players, meanwhile, have continued to play against the dealer. And know the detailed exceptions to the basic strategy, as well as the basic strategy itself, neither necessarily in the wheelhouse of the ploppie. And insist on playing their own money their own way. Which brings out the bully in Joe Ploppie. And, because it's now conventional wisdom, the casinos tolerate players berating and bullying other patrons about their play.

We were having this conversation last week around the family poker table. My brother was talking about being driven off a table by the unpleasantness of another person there. And how, when I started going to Caesar's 25 years ago, it would have been unthinkable in their (then) high-class operation for the pit to allow one patron to bully another in their establishment without them providing some sort of intervention. But gaming and society have both changed, again a culture shift, where trash-talking, screaming at, or insulting ("I was just kidding") perfect strangers during what's supposed to be entertainment (understanding that many good players are not there "to be entertained" as I'm reminded on this forum), is not only ignored but the norm.

I would like to see the casinos push back against this type of player-on-player aggression in their clubs. It doesn't have to be overt; just a reminder to the agressor that everyone is entitled to play their own cards, don't have to explain themselves, and the casino is supporting those rights, might help in a lot of cases, and eventually change the conventional wisdom. Instead, a lot of dealers seem to either pile on or pretend it's not happening. However, I dealt for a time, and I'm not really in favor of dealers having the responsibility, unless the whole company/industry chooses to take this on and provides a consistent support net for them.

I happen to think that this cultural issue is a significant factor in the decrease of table play vs. slot play (though the main reasons have to do with the profitability of slots v. tables and the explosion of slot options and "cheap" base bets). People don't want to be judged or confronted when they're playing, and slots offer a solo experience where you have more control over whether you interact with those sitting next to you, and they're more focussed on what they're doing, not what you're doing. JMHO.

Although kewlj chides me for saying it too frequently, I've never said it on this forum:

There are other players at the table?

Quote: 21forme

Although kewlj chides me for saying it too frequently, I've never said it on this forum:

There are other players at the table?

OMG!! You are relentless, 21. But really...it is a good line. :-)