WatchMeWin
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March 25th, 2019 at 9:08:40 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Um ya, I declined the ones where you proposed something that was +EV for yourself. I don't think that was your intention, you just didnt realize what you were proposing would have been + EV for you. I certainly hope you didnt realize that since the entire point of our wagering discussion was for you to prove you can beat a -EV game with your shooting skills and betting system by putting your money where your mouth was.

That's why I said multiple times that I would just book the bets a if I was the casino. Whatever you win I will double, triple etc but whatever you lost you would do the same. With a situation such as that there would be no obligations other than one of us paying what we own once we were finished.



You obviously are trying to deflect. Since when is betting parlays and teasers a +EV? I proposed several sports bets to you after you ran your mouth about wanting to take my action. On every occasion, you declined. I sense major fear on you behalf.... #all bark!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
AxelWolf
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March 25th, 2019 at 9:31:35 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

You obviously are trying to deflect. Since when is betting parlays and teasers a +EV? I proposed several sports bets to you after you ran your mouth about wanting to take my action. On every occasion, you declined. I sense major fear on you behalf.... #all bark!

I see you are back. I wonder how long I will allow you to stay this time?

I didnt realize you were talking about the parlays. The conversation was about you coming to LV and demonstrating your craps magic. So I'm not sure how that is deflecting.

I'm not willing to book your action on credit. I told you what was needed before I was going to book any sports bets with you. A way you/me could send immediate payment before and after a bet resolved, something like PayPal. You didn't seem to want to do that. Then we would have to set up another line of communication since you get suspended from here so often. TBH, the amount you were wanting to bet really isn't worth the hassle for me.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WatchMeWin
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March 25th, 2019 at 12:20:57 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I see you are back. I wonder how long I will allow you to stay this time?

I didnt realize you were talking about the parlays. The conversation was about you coming to LV and demonstrating your craps magic. So I'm not sure how that is deflecting.

I'm not willing to book your action on credit. I told you what was needed before I was going to book any sports bets with you. A way you/me could send immediate payment before and after a bet resolved, something like PayPal. You didn't seem to want to do that. Then we would have to set up another line of communication since you get suspended from here so often. TBH, the amount you were wanting to bet really isn't worth the hassle for me.



You obviously dont pay attention to much. I havent talked about a craps bet scenario in ages here. I have only bet you on sports ... to which you first barked how you would take my bets any day , but then went into hiding when I proposed several wagers... btw, of which I won all... lucky you! I see why you are so scared now.

So , what is the amount of wager that would be 'worth the hassle' for you?
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
AxelWolf
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March 25th, 2019 at 7:26:29 PM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

You obviously dont pay attention to much. I havent talked about a craps bet scenario in ages here. I have only bet you on sports ... to which you first barked how you would take my bets any day , but then went into hiding when I proposed several wagers... btw, of which I won all... lucky you! I see why you are so scared now.

So , what is the amount of wager that would be 'worth the hassle' for you?

Or perhaps you are not paying attention. I asked you on a different thread recently about coming to vegas for craps. And in this thread I said this....

"WMW are you coming to the WOV Spring Fling? IIRC we still have a potential bet to get rolling." Why would you need to come to Vegas for any sports wager with me? That makes no sence. Notice the word >>>ROLLING<<<<

You refused/avoided setting up a payment system with me and that's exactly why I wouldn't take any of your bets.. Weren't you betting with Tom? What happened with that?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WatchMeWin
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March 26th, 2019 at 8:54:02 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Or perhaps you are not paying attention. I asked you on a different thread recently about coming to vegas for craps. And in this thread I said this....

"WMW are you coming to the WOV Spring Fling? IIRC we still have a potential bet to get rolling." Why would you need to come to Vegas for any sports wager with me? That makes no sence. Notice the word >>>ROLLING<<<<

You refused/avoided setting up a payment system with me and that's exactly why I wouldn't take any of your bets.. Weren't you betting with Tom? What happened with that?



You keep trying to divert. If I were i Vegas, I would gladly take your money in any bet. However, I am not, therefore I proposed sports wager with you in response to your garbage jargon.... to which you ran and hid like a little sheep. So how much is 'worth the hassle'? I showed how awful I am with sports yesterday, so this is easy +EV money for you. Lets go! Im looking at games for this week as we speak.

Regarding others here that Ive wagered with.... none of your business. The others are honorable and respectable... all good experiences with them.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
TigerWu
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March 26th, 2019 at 9:40:51 AM permalink
Man, this thread's gone completely off the rails...
WatchMeWin
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March 26th, 2019 at 9:41:51 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Man, this thread's gone completely off the rails...



You are going to get suspended for this..... I see a suspension coming for you!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
TigerWu
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March 26th, 2019 at 9:46:01 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

You are going to get suspended for this..... I see a suspension coming for you!



LOL
OnceDear
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March 26th, 2019 at 10:03:33 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Man, this thread's gone completely off the rails...


Agreed. It's taken a very specific route off topic. I doubt it was a deliberate hijack: these things happen.

WatchMeWin & Axelwolf, Please take your little spat to another thread, or better still to PM.... Thanks in advance.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
billryan
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March 26th, 2019 at 10:24:52 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Agreed. It's taken a very specific route off topic. I doubt it was a deliberate hijack: these things happen.

WatchMeWin & Axelwolf, Please take your little spat to another thread, or better still to PM.... Thanks in advance.



Because we need to get back to debating cancellation? That's almost as stimulating as reading about impoverished seniors and their struggles to heat their mcmansions.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
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March 26th, 2019 at 11:37:04 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Agreed. It's taken a very specific route off topic. I doubt it was a deliberate hijack: these things happen.

WatchMeWin & Axelwolf, Please take your little spat to another thread, or better still to PM.... Thanks in advance.



You again(#WME)?

Sure thing boss man.


https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/30497-gambling-miscellaneous-discussion-thread/39/#post708695
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
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March 26th, 2019 at 1:39:43 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Because we need to get back to debating cancellation? That's almost as stimulating as reading about impoverished seniors and their struggles to heat their mcmansions.

No. Because new visitors might see the title of the thread and be disappointed to find themselves reading about an unrelated interpersonal spat.
Yes. Let's get back to deriding the 'cancelation' system
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
djatc
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March 26th, 2019 at 2:47:33 PM permalink
I'm surprised this thread didn't have the cancellation method applied to it
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
MaxPen
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March 26th, 2019 at 3:41:08 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Man, this thread's gone completely off the rails...



Yes, I vote we change the name to Voodoo, Pissing Matches and Alt-Shenannigans.
Gialmere
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March 28th, 2019 at 5:31:52 PM permalink
I'll take a (perhaps pointless) stab at putting this thread back on the rails. If you're a wizard disciple it's your dogma (or should be) that betting systems don't work. At best they enhance your chances of short term gains at the cost of (in many cases radically) increasing your risk of ruin. Should you ever use them? Well, consider this "ask the wizard" Q and A....

Quote: WoO

Dear Mr. Wizard, If you had $5,000 to bet and wanted to win only $200 what game would you play? Please assume European rules and choose only among roulette, black jack, or baccarat.

Anonymous


I would bet $200 on the player bet in baccarat. If it wins, walk, if it loses then bet $400 (or whatever you lost). Then just go into a Martingale until you win your $200 or lose your entire $5,000.

Obviously he's not endorsing such a plan but it does show that, given the right circumstances, even the Wizard might pull a betting system out of his tool bag.

I never cared much for baccarat. Never played it on the simulator here. It's boring, even when peeling up the cards and destroying the deck. Then I used it as a means of getting hands-on experience learning the (evil) betting systems and now I love the game. I play here all the time testing and tweaking systems, like trying to build a perpetual motion machine or turn lead into gold. As I said earlier on this thread, it's just a toy to mess with, but I have a lot of fun doing it. Would I try it at a casino? Sure, but only for small stakes.

It would be fun having a future contest here to see who can build the best betting system (like building pumpkin cannons). Whoever's system lasts the longest before utter ruin wins. My machine uses a modified D’Alembert engine and runs on 97 octane gambler's fallacy. With a $200 bankroll and a $5 base unit it will win $100 per shoe three fifths of the time and lose $200 the other two times.

Beat that suckas! [mic drop]
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
MDawg
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March 28th, 2019 at 8:24:38 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I'll do better - I ran 100 million runs (i.e. play until you complete the sequence, 100 million times).
Using a $1 bet on player, there were 40 runs had a point where you were down at least 100 billion (that's billion with a B) dollars.
12 of those had a point where you were down one trillion dollars.
The largest deficit was 12.6 trillion dollars - and this does not take into account the additional trillions of dollars you need for your next bet.

Note that none of the runs needed more than 550 hands, so "not enough time" does not seem to be a problem.

Here is an example of a run that ended after 283 hands, with a total loss at one point of 8.4 billion dollars, with the next bet being almost 2 billion:



Sorry I couldn't quite follow. So, in your run of 283 hands (which is somewhere between 3 and 4 Bacc. shoes), it was a Bank Player Baccarat presentation? I haven't played 100 million shoes but the best I have ever seen that I played at, where I really cleaned up (mid six figures), was 22 players followed by one bank followed by 26 players.

So you're saying, how many banks (or players) came in a row that doubling a dollar ended up getting to a two billion bet? I could do the factorial I suppose but just wanted to ask.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
DeMango
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March 29th, 2019 at 6:03:53 AM permalink
Kinda reminds me of 18 yo’s In a row and no one betting the yo!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
MDawg
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March 29th, 2019 at 9:19:41 AM permalink
I went ahead and calculated the log base 2 of the number 2 billion, and came up with just under 31 doubles. So, at 31 doubles of $1. (which would mean I believe at the 32nd bank or player, with the bettor betting the opposite) we get to above a two billion dollar bet.

There are between 75 and 85 hands in a typical Baccarat shoe. I think the chance of there being a 32 bank or player run is definitely astronomical, but not by any means impossible.

I wonder if, in that simulation done, if it was done simulating a sort of "continuous shuffle" where each hand was independent. The proper way to do the simulation would be with six or eight decks of cards at a time, and then starting anew with six or eight more decks.

In any case, there's no need to get to the theoretical. On my last trip to Vegas, where I was there almost three weeks and played Baccarat most every (but not every) day, I experienced at least an 11 and on many days 13 bank or player run each day that I did play, and this was with playing anywhere from only a couple to ten shoes in a day. So, if you were doubling the table minimum $100. you'd reach the table max of $20,000. after only nine players or banks (against you). Even if there were no $20K limit at all, after 13 banks (or players) against you, you'd be betting now over $400K on a hand, which is higher than the limits that the casinos give even the players with $5M credit lines.

Stepping back from all this "cancellation" nonsense, I think part of the reason I win so consistently at Baccarat is that I BELIEVE in the runs, and have this uncanny sense of when a run is about to begin. Even if I knew nothing at all, and had no sense or intuition, if I lose a couple or max three times against a run, I will switch over to it. So, I MAKE money on the runs. I feel like a run is about to come "all the time" and the fact of the matter is, that almost all shoes have at least one good run in them, at least the shoes I play, do. (Keep in mind that a chop, player bank player bank player bank is also a run.)

I've noticed that many players bet against runs or get off the runs because they think it will stop. I never get off a run. I might decrease my bet at some point if I've cleaned up enough, but like as not, once I get to a certain point, "I'm GONE" will keep pressing because I no longer have anything to lose I'm so far ahead.

Another important element, I think, to my Baccarat winning, is that after I experience a run and clean up, I LEAVE. I don't just sit there thinking that more will necessarily come. I might go ahead and see if a parallel run will arrive (such as when I hit the 22 players followed by one bank followed by 26 players), but I won't sit there for the remainder of the shoe trying to make more money if it (meaning a run) doesn't happen again quickly. I have a sense for when "this is as good as it's going to get" and I color up my chips, and leave, done for that day.


I realize that standing behind a Baccarat table and looking at the board, it's easy to think "how could anyone make money at this game?" but the proof in the pudding is that I can, and do. The fact of the matter is, that there are two different types of Bacc. shoes that present themselves, some are random, with no pattern, and others follow a definite discernible pattern. The trick comes in realizing when you're playing a pattern shoe (and pressing your bet, and following the pattern), and when you're playing a random shoe (and reducing your bet, or leaving, or demanding a shuffle of a new deck).

Naturally compared to say BJ, if you're presented with a deck where the dealer busts over and over and you keep getting twenties, it's much easier to follow "that pattern" (which involves simply pressing your bet, to win), versus "following a Bacc. shoe pattern" (which involves picking the right side, to follow the pattern), but still, in both cases, it may be done, when the opportunity presents itself. Gambling comes down to realizing when you're winning (and pressing your bet) and when you're losing (and reducing your bet, or leaving). It sounds so simple ("Bet more when you're winning") but all the time, I see people high fiving and winning consistently, and sitting there with their minimum bets, while the same players are jumping their bets up like crazy at a time when the atmosphere is grim, and quiet, and the cards are running well against them.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
lilredrooster
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March 29th, 2019 at 11:18:10 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg



I think part of the reason I win so consistently at Baccarat is that I BELIEVE in the runs, and have this uncanny sense of when a run is about to begin.




it doesn't matter how many words you write
99% of the posters here are not going to believe you have a winning method of playing baccarat
but there's good news
99% of the posters at gamblingforums.com will believe you
and they will add other techniques to yours which they say will enable them to win even more even faster




BTW I see patterns too
at night the street lights create a shadow pattern on my bedroom walls
looks like ghosts from years gone by
Please don't feed the trolls
MDawg
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March 29th, 2019 at 12:06:05 PM permalink
I win. Consistently. That's all that matters.

I don't pretend to have any particular system that may be emulated. The dealers and other players who see me at the Bacc. tables told me back then, and tell me now, that "you're the only one we see winning here." Even the servers used to say that to me. Go to Vegas to the high limit Bacc. pits at Venetian and Bellagio, they STILL know me from my high rolling days of 15 years ago, and at Encore and Wynn and Cosmo, from my current mid-rolling days. I am known. I win, consistently. And I tip.

So you may go back to your belief that it is impossible to win at Bacc. or BJ; I win at both. Since you believe it is impossible to win, why do you even bother to gamble? You've lost before you've started. What are you doing on this Vegas forum? What are you doing in Vegas? Why do you even go to Vegas, if you go, that is.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
lilredrooster
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March 29th, 2019 at 12:47:34 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg



So you may go back to your belief that it is impossible to win at BJ




don't think you're qualified to lecture me on BJ
don't play any more - don't need or crave money anymore
when I was playing I played for 6 years one day every single week and on that day I played for about 14 hours straight

you're fantasizing that people who doubt you say there's no way to win?
nobody who knows anything about these things says that

there are ways to win that have nothing to do with "uncanny sense" or "intuition" or believing that patterns from the past will continue in the future

if you don't know this you're expounding on a subject you don't know much about

go ahead, write another 3 thousand words - you'll convince yourself for sure
Please don't feed the trolls
MDawg
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March 29th, 2019 at 12:55:13 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

go ahead, write another 3 thousand words


You don't write because you can't. That's no reason to put others down who can.


Anyway...I'm posting based on results - winning.

You're just defeatist talk. You don't win, you don't even claim to win. You've never been banned from a casino for winning at BJ as I have. You're just all talk, and do not play anymore at all. Keep talking and gainsaying, I suppose you think that we need all kinds here.

You never answered my Q about Vegas either. When was the last time you were there? let alone won.

I came to these forums because I started playing again last year. You quit years ago and keep posting on here about how to win, or rather, how not to win? I think I'd find better (or at least other) things to do with my time.
Last edited by: MDawg on Mar 29, 2019
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
lilredrooster
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March 29th, 2019 at 1:03:15 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg


you don't even claim to win.
You never answered my Q Vegas either. When was the last time you were there?



no point in claiming to win
thousands of people claiming to win on the internet
if I claimed I won would you then believe me?
I don't think so
if you want to think I lost - go ahead - I don't care - nobody else cares either

as far as going to Vegas - to repeat what I posted to you earlier
I don't play any more - I don't need or crave money any more

you want to think I'm a loser
go for it dude - I could really care less
Please don't feed the trolls
TomG
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March 29th, 2019 at 8:19:23 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Stepping back from all this "cancellation" nonsense, I think part of the reason I win so consistently at Baccarat is that I BELIEVE in the runs, and have this uncanny sense of when a run is about to begin.



I love it. Belief and uncanny senses can go right in with hydration, curses, and hit-and-run among the things that matter most at winning in casinos
AxelWolf
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March 29th, 2019 at 8:52:29 PM permalink
When playing Baccarat you must come prepared.




♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ThatDonGuy
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March 29th, 2019 at 9:27:46 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Sorry I couldn't quite follow. So, in your run of 283 hands (which is somewhere between 3 and 4 Bacc. shoes), it was a Bank Player Baccarat presentation? I haven't played 100 million shoes but the best I have ever seen that I played at, where I really cleaned up (mid six figures), was 22 players followed by one bank followed by 26 players.

So you're saying, how many banks (or players) came in a row that doubling a dollar ended up getting to a two billion bet? I could do the factorial I suppose but just wanted to ask.


It wasn't Martingale, but D'Alembert, and I didn't base it off specific shoes but assumed a fixed probability of winning each hand.
DeMango
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March 30th, 2019 at 7:47:27 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

It wasn't Martingale, but D'Alembert, and I didn't base it off specific shoes but assumed a fixed probability of winning each hand.


Two observations.
Is there not some probability change due to effect of cards removed?
So not using shoes flaws your results.

About D’Alembert, what compensation would you make for the 5% commission, assuming always betting Banker?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
lilredrooster
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March 30th, 2019 at 1:03:04 PM permalink
gamblingforums.com is actually a pretty comical place. there's a guy there who calls himself "TurboGenius" who claims he has a 20% edge on roulette with his bet selections (nothing to do with a biased wheel).

and there's another guy who calls himself "Bago" who posts screenshots of fake sims showing his roulette system winning over a million dollars

and these 2 guys hate each other as they duel for the title of King of Phony roulette systems

much of the crowd there loves these 2 guys. they suck it up
Please don't feed the trolls
Gialmere
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March 31st, 2019 at 1:04:56 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I'll do better - I ran 100 million runs (i.e. play until you complete the sequence, 100 million times).
Using a $1 bet on player, there were 40 runs had a point where you were down at least 100 billion (that's billion with a B) dollars.
12 of those had a point where you were down one trillion dollars.
The largest deficit was 12.6 trillion dollars - and this does not take into account the additional trillions of dollars you need for your next bet.

Note that none of the runs needed more than 550 hands, so "not enough time" does not seem to be a problem.

Here is an example of a run that ended after 283 hands, with a total loss at one point of 8.4 billion dollars, with the next bet being almost 2 billion:


BetResultLosses
2W-2
2W-4
1L-3
2L-1
3L2
4L6
5L11
6W5
5L10
6W4
6L10
8L18
10L28
12W16
11L27
14L41
17L58
20L78
23W55
21L76
25W51
23L74
29W45
25W20
25L45
36L81
47L128
58L186
69L255
80L335
91L426
102L528
113W415
105W310
105L415
130L545
155L700
180W520
166L686
202L888
238L1,126
274L1,400
310W1,090
285W805
260L1,065
318L1,383
376L1,759
434L2,193
492L2,685
550L3,235
608W2,627
561L3,188
630L3,818
699W3,119
641W2,478
597L3,075
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1,427,042,952L6,721,691,647
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1,717,764,084L8,184,679,447
2,008,485,216W6,176,194,231
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2,088,807,840W5,845,311,787
1,812,844,332L7,658,156,119
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1,867,763,268W3,591,747,139
1,795,873,572W1,795,873,567
1,795,873,572W-5



Don (if you're still paying attention to this thread), just out of curiosity (and to give the OP a fair shake since anything system users say here can and will be used against them in a court of mathematics), how many of the 100 million runs ended with the sequence completed? His sequence is "5 5 5 5 5" which converts to "1 1 1 1 1" for your simulation. So the converted target he's shooting for is +5 units (or -5 losses). How many runs ended with that result?
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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Gialmere
March 31st, 2019 at 7:42:40 AM permalink
Quote: Gialmere


Don (if you're still paying attention to this thread), just out of curiosity (and to give the OP a fair shake since anything system users say here can and will be used against them in a court of mathematics), how many of the 100 million runs ended with the sequence completed? His sequence is "5 5 5 5 5" which converts to "1 1 1 1 1" for your simulation. So the converted target he's shooting for is +5 units (or -5 losses). How many runs ended with that result?


All 100 million runs ended with the sequence completed, and the end result of a 5-unit gain.

It's like just about every other system - "eventually" it works every time, given an unlimited bankroll. Flat betting seems to be the main exception.
Boz
Boz
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Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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Forager
March 31st, 2019 at 8:04:37 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

gamblingforums.com is actually a pretty comical place. there's a guy there who calls himself "TurboGenius" who claims he has a 20% edge on roulette with his bet selections (nothing to do with a biased wheel).

and there's another guy who calls himself "Bago" who posts screenshots of fake sims showing his roulette system winning over a million dollars

and these 2 guys hate each other as they duel for the title of King of Phony roulette systems

much of the crowd there loves these 2 guys. they suck it up



If either of those 2 F’s could do 1/100th of what they claim, Roulette would not exist in a casino. And of course Math as we know it would no longer exist.

It’s a circle jerk of these 2 and their followers over there.

Logic is non existent.
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