Thread Rating:

7winner
7winner
Joined: May 31, 2010
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 198
October 25th, 2010 at 3:46:11 PM permalink
Quote: nope27

It appears 98 is posting daily results.

October 21. 7:45pm - 11:30pm. El Cortez Casino, Downtown. Gross Earnings $162
October 22. 9:30am - 4:15pm. Eastside Cannery, Boulder Highway. Gross Earnings $60.
October 23. 1:30pm - 4:30pm. Eastside Cannery, Boulder Highway. Gross Earnings $153.
October 23. 5:45pm - 5:30am. Boulder Station, Boulder Highway. Gross Earnings $175.

October 24: I am taking Sunday OFF

$550 is the total gross earnings to date as posted by 98steps.


3 days of results.
and at one point his bankroll was 25% down to $650. That shows a total bankroll of $2600.
98steps seems to be testing the water.

Is it too hot??
Too cold???

This "Craps System" was a previously tested, over 200 sessions, a consistent winner with a bankroll of $5000 and a $700 average session win goal?

I think my dog hit the remote and I'm watching a different movie.
This thread is now past the insane marker.

Ready to push over the 1.41% Hoax thread.
7 winner chicken dinner!
7winner
7winner
Joined: May 31, 2010
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 198
October 25th, 2010 at 4:03:02 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay


Again, here's a link to the revised rules I'm proposing, and soliciting feedback on.

By the way, notorious system-peddler E. Clifton Davis said last year that he would accept my challenge, but never did. Here's the link to his forum page. Note that it's screwy and the posts are listed in reverse chronological order, so you have to start reading from the bottom.

http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5225


The posts seem to be in proper order to me.
Again, no one can agree on exact challenge rules.
They all agree to disagree.

Since the Wizard had one true challenge taker and Mr Bluejay has had none to date, why continue?
Really, what is the point in proving someone right or wrong in regards to a gambling system?

I say we attack those believers in dice control.
"Pay me to learn dice control!"
"Buy my new dice control book. The only way to win at Craps"
Why are we letting those jokers go untouched?

Buyer beware.
Who really cares and why?
Mr. Madoff made-off with billions, did not affect me one bit.
Buyer beware.
The US Government wastes taxpayers money each and every year.
Lets put our efforts there.
Buyer Beware!

I still vote to close this thread.
7 winner chicken dinner!
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 6901
October 25th, 2010 at 4:37:34 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

nope27's table is great. I wonder is 98 would also post his high and low bankroll positions for each day.

I feel certain that the "system" under discussion just has to lose in the long term. But I would not fault 98steps for not posting daily high and low positions. During a session at the crap table, I try to keep track of where I stand, but it is often quite difficult: My rack looks a little low but I have a bunch of chips on the table -- am I up or down? By how much? If you really wanted to be certain of exactly what your max and min positions were throughout the session or day, you would likely devote most of your time and attention to counting chips rather than managing your wagers. I'd cut 98 some slack on this particular point.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
  • Threads: 232
  • Posts: 6585
October 25th, 2010 at 5:18:30 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

I feel certain that the "system" under discussion just has to lose in the long term. But I would not fault 98steps for not posting daily high and low positions. During a session at the crap table, I try to keep track of where I stand, but it is often quite difficult: My rack looks a little low but I have a bunch of chips on the table -- am I up or down? By how much? If you really wanted to be certain of exactly what your max and min positions were throughout the session or day, you would likely devote most of your time and attention to counting chips rather than managing your wagers. I'd cut 98 some slack on this particular point.



I understand how hard it can be to keep track. However, it was my impression that 98's system is very disciplined, so I expect that closely tracking the total bankroll would be a natural part of his play. it is not a demand, just a request to see if the variance he encounters fits with everyone's expectations.

As for whether chips on the table are + or -, If the -$650 report included them, then please keep including them. If not, continue to not include them. Thanks 98! We are all looking forward to your next report.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 1936
October 25th, 2010 at 5:28:34 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

I understand how hard it can be to keep track. However, it was my impression that 98's system is very disciplined, so I expect that closely tracking the total bankroll would be a natural part of his play. it is not a demand, just a request to see if the variance he encounters fits with everyone's expectations.


Yes, tracking the dice rolls, winning and losing bets at a craps table takes a good amount of discipline. I can second that.
I have not seen 98steps in action but hope to after Nov 1st.
Quote: Ayecarumba


As for whether chips on the table are + or -, If the -$650 report included them, then please keep including them. If not, continue to not include them. Thanks 98! We are all looking forward to your next report.


Keep the updates coming 98steps.
I too like the idea of you placing a results table in your Blog, just the daily results and telling more about the sessions in your posts.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
  • Threads: 232
  • Posts: 6585
October 26th, 2010 at 12:22:39 PM permalink
Was an update for October 25 posted somewhere else?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
98steps
98steps
Joined: Sep 14, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 119
October 26th, 2010 at 2:35:53 PM permalink
Progress Update.......

yesterday was a particualrly brutal day. 2 positive easy sessions. One nightmare. Please forgive the delay in update, it was necessary for me to communicate with my investors.

10/25 11am-11:30am. Main Street Station, Downtown. Gross Earnings +156. 1 Shooter, Never lost a wager.
10/25 12:30pm - 2:15pm. Golden Gate Casino, Downtown. Gross Earnings +152. Low Bank -126.
10/25 4pm - 2am. Stratosphere, ???? (Where is Strat Classified as being?). LOSS -2316. Pass Line -43 bets. All wager groups behind considerably.

I have been having meetings with investors today. Final decision is to continue. I offered to return balance of bankroll to investors, declined. I offered to absorb 75% of loss, declined. Investor acknowledged that she was fully aware of the risk involved. We discussed previously that losses WOULD happen. We both just hoped to get more sessions under our belt prior to the loss.

We move forward with high hopes that the next losing session will not show soon.
98steps
98steps
Joined: Sep 14, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 119
October 26th, 2010 at 2:38:19 PM permalink
There will be one session today, location still to be determined. I will make an effort to review the thread and respond to the questions and comments tonite and tomorrow.
7winner
7winner
Joined: May 31, 2010
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 198
October 26th, 2010 at 3:08:22 PM permalink
Quote: 98steps

There will be one session today, location still to be determined. I will make an effort to review the thread and respond to the questions and comments tonite and tomorrow.


98steps,
You were looking for investors at the beginning of your thread.
You found them

You had a 95% win rate, over 200 sessions with a $5000 bank and $600 average session wins.
You are doing everything WRONG!
Why are you now doing a "Base" play?
$2600 bankroll and $150 session win. That is nothing what you have been doing before.
I have seen this over a 30 year period at the craps table.
Someone has a system, that takes discipline and proper bankroll and bets.
You seem to have strayed away from your earlier successes.
What gives?
There is a balance between bet sizes, bankroll and win goal and your current style of play is nothing near your so called "consistant winning" style of play.

Well, better it happened sooner than later.
A Big wakeup call.

Date/Time/LocationDaySession HoursResult
October 21. 7:45pm - 11:30pm. El Cortez Casino, Downtown. Gross Earnings $162Thurs3.75$162
October 22. 9:30am - 4:15pm. Eastside Cannery, Boulder Highway. Gross Earnings $60.Fri6.75$60
October 23. 1:30pm - 4:30pm. Eastside Cannery, Boulder Highway. Gross Earnings $153.Sat3$153
October 23. 5:45pm - 5:30am. Boulder Station, Boulder Highway. Gross Earnings $175.Sat11.75$175
October 24: I am taking Sunday OFFSun00
October 25: 11am-11:30am. Main Street Station, Downtown. Gross Earnings +156Mon0.5$156
October 25: 12:30pm - 2:15pm. Golden Gate Casino, Downtown. Gross Earnings +152Mon1.75$152
October 25: 4pm - 2am. Stratosphere, STRIP, LOSS -2316Mon10($2,316)
....
....
.Totals37.5($1,458)
7 winner chicken dinner!
98steps
98steps
Joined: Sep 14, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 119
October 26th, 2010 at 3:11:04 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

It's not a session bankroll, it's a lifetime bankroll.

Also, I think you're missing the whole point of the challenge. It's to disprove the run-of-the-mill claims that someone has a winning system -- especially ones that are being *sold* as winning systems. Have you ever heard of a system seller saying, "I've got this great system I can sell you, but it requires a $100,000 bankroll"? Anyone who's got that kind of cash lying around is already wealthy and has no need for a winning betting system.

This does bring up a good point, though. For betting systems that are sold, how much of a starting bankroll do the sellers claim is required? Here's what I could dig up, which wasn't much. This leads me to believe that the $3000 I'm thinking of specifying is generous. What other system bankroll requirements can you all find?

* $29(!): http://www.angelfire.com/ca/rskubic/ ($25 cost)
* $50(!): http://www.gambling-systems.com/roulette.html ($35 cost)

* $500 per session (total not specified): http://www.68crapsstrategy.com/ ($68 cost)
* 20 units per session (total not specified): http://www.kanzen.com/system.html ($30 cost)

* "Very small bankroll" http://www.spin4profits.com/ ($47 cost)
* Not specified: https://ssl4.westserver.net/gambling-systems.com/order.html ($20 cost)
* Not specified: http://www.maxprofit.ws/ ($47 cost)
* Not specified: http://www.roulettekiller.com/ ($49.95 cost)
* Not specified: http://www.davelessnau.com/ ($94 cost)
* Not specified: http://www.thedoverpro.com/craps.htm ($9.95 cost)

As a side note, the purveyors of these systems should really be prosecuted for fraud. Years ago I wrote to one Attorney General about a system seller, and the Wizard offered to be an expert witness, but I never heard back from the AG's office. I think the take away is that the government is willing to tolerate small-scale crooks.



Just a quick note---Despite my confidence in my own strategies, I also agree that virtually everything being sold as a system is most probably garbage. I have only seen a couple which others have shown me while asking my opinion. I have never seen anything from anyone else that wasn't full of holes. For the record, I am NOT in general a "system supporter". In my opinion, anyone selling something as "fool-proof", "guaranteed winner", or any of the other tag lines they use to indicate that you can not lose with their information, is merely attempting to fleece someone.

  • Jump to: