Australian accusations

Packer's Crowne Enterprises, with its international operations reeling from a Chinese criminal probe, is now facing accusations by Australian government official Wilkie involving tampering with slot machines and irregularities in money laundering paperwork.

So far three casino employees were taped while heavily disguised claiming betting buttons on "pokies" were tampered with and employees instructed to use false numbers on currency forms.

Crowne responded with a 'bring your charges out in the open rather than on the floor of Parlement where you are immune.

please note:
There can be confusion over the term pokies since in Australia it is a term that means "slot machine" of a certain type and does not necessarily relate to a video poker game.

Here is a list of the accusations, according to The Guardian (an English newspaper).
They are all against a single casino - the Crown casino in Melbourne.
Also, the accusations all involve slot machines - as FleaStiff said, they are called "pokies" in Australia, mainly because of the use of card ranks rather than fruit symbols. I am pretty sure video poker isn't even allowed in that casino.

Some of the accusations, I don't understand, or at least don't see the real problem:
* One claim says that, somehow, they can "reset" the machines to keep it from paying out the minimum 85 percent. Since when do slot machines increase their probabilities of winning when they are "behind"? Every spin is independent, even in Australia, isn't it?
* Another says the casino lowers the payout rates on weekends. What's wrong with that, as long as it is above the minimum? The only real problem I can see with that is if they advertise an average return rate and base it on something like the average return per day.

The others appear to be:
* Some machines paid out less than the 85% required minimum
* On multi-line slots, allowing only two choices - one line, or all of them - by disabling the other options
* Making it possible, by jamming a piece of plastic of some sort (and there is an allegation that these were made available by the casino), to allow "continuous play" - that is, the machine kept spinning by itself without the player having to push any bet/spin button - which is illegal in that state
* "Erasing" prior play for big players so they would get around betting limits aimed to deter problem gamblers

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Here is a list of the accusations, according to The Guardian

Many thanx for the link to the Guardian article. Much appreciated.

In the past few years many anti gaming bodies have been applying pressure on state and federal government to look into the Aledged practice of incorrect return %,seems they may have a point . I know the above is in reference to crown and activities in China, but it seems to suggest that they and other gaming companies here in Australia have been using Australian gullible wannabe gamblers as test dummy. I had written a post re slots and was answered by axel wolf and the answer seems good if you in the USA and I can see some validation in video post re fastest hands per hour ( this forum) looks great actually. Worth further study. Thanks but don’t tell d d der god as I posted I wouldn’t take any notice of anyone’s opinion on this site. What can I say I’m a gullible wannabe and an Aussie. Ha ha
I’m not sure I know anyone doing same (methods of game hand play) here.
But I wonder re about the return % here for years. As per post ,most here unless you’re addicted or with anti gambling body (ie ex-addicts)deem slots as a no win venture.
Kind regards

Just in reply to some things listed in thatdonguy /FleaStiff post.
We call them slots machine because you used to have to feed coins into a slot to activate a credit, now they only accept notes , all payout are in ticket form as opposed to coin payout of yester year.
You can reset anything now ie v w lawsuit re anti pollution setting worldwide, poker machine easy re set . Little payout rate Friday Saturday and Sunday is pretty much an excepted fact here in Australia ie you get a return of some sort Monday thru Thursday, dam lucky fri etc.The problem is you play to win but if you’re not winning 3days a week or very little, and some don’t see that as a problem? Sorry here in Australia we have signs on machine/ casino walls something like your betting your money for fun. Here they say it’s an enjoyment activity ie you are going to lose your money so have fun and enjoy the sites and sounds of the machine. I will take a photo and post to this site.
Some machine are notorious here as under paying on busy weekend they are finally in use.
Yes I have seen machines here altered play 3lines removed etc. some machine have only one button, no choice max lines only.
We used to stick plastic or cardboard wedges in buttons to get continuous spins as you can sit for twenty or so spins without a payout, if you’re going to lose $100 on that machine may as well get done quickly then you can move on. I’m talking a couple of minutes as opposed to ten minutes. They have made the buttons here so you have to press and release each time now. Drag that losing times out as you are only playing to have fun. Gee I’m broke and out of cash , boy that was fun. Can’t wait for next payday and do it again. Oh Yeah.
As for changing parameters re high rollers I do know personally and have been present when a high roller has called his account manager and complain re low returns on this session and either got a partial paid refund or credit vouchers for use throughout the casino. They would open machine verify play, check play on player members card in machine. Etc.
So I would say little or no returns on outlay in machine could be a problem.
One thing I would also like to point out is we are an island nation 24million, a very small market spread across a vast land size. we have no alternative in market place here re banking, electronics , fuel phone food costs etc. ie you pay and shut up as you have no choice you can’t slip across the boarder to better living costs , so I can see the apathy re slots machines and the players of those machines. As a reference re costs a friend of mine went state side to live illegally of course. She sent me these comments buy 18eggs and get 18 eggs freefor just a couple of $ . That’s 36 eggs for less than half the price we pay for 12 .
PLEASE NOTE I’m not complaining nor making any excuses just stating a comment.
Mate I hope you guys are really making great cash from your slots machine there good luck to you all
Kind regards.

Sorry not to have provided links to this story but every time I attempted them I got re-directed to a Paywall screen.

I understand Bloomberg has some minor comment on this story that is not behind a pay wall.

Can anyone in Australia settle the issue definitively as to whether the term pokie merely means slot machine or whether it refers to a particular type of slot machine that historically only paid out in merchandise and was known and acknowledged to have a variable payout rate.

I'm in the USA and know you have some strange terminology down there, such as your term for a gas station pump.

Quote: FleaStiff

Sorry not to have provided links to this story but every time I attempted them I got re-directed to a Paywall screen.

I understand Bloomberg has some minor comment on this story that is not behind a pay wall.

Can anyone in Australia settle the issue definitively as to whether the term pokie merely means slot machine or whether it refers to a particular type of slot machine that historically only paid out in merchandise and was known and acknowledged to have a variable payout rate.

I'm in the USA and know you have some strange terminology down there, such as your term for a gas station pump.

Not only do they have strange terms. They don't have mac and cheese. Sigh.

Quote: FleaStiff

Sorry not to have provided links to this story but every time I attempted them I got re-directed to a Paywall screen.

I understand Bloomberg has some minor comment on this story that is not behind a pay wall.

Can anyone in Australia settle the issue definitively as to whether the term pokie merely means slot machine or whether it refers to a particular type of slot machine that historically only paid out in merchandise and was known and acknowledged to have a variable payout rate
I'm in the USA and know you have some strange terminology down there, such as your term for a gas station pump.

Tough call on that one as to getting a definitive answer to that, as depending on which part of the country you’re from and or age/ social demographics plus our to habit to turn words into slang.
Earlier machines actually was a machine with mechanical cogs operated by pulling a long lever on the side, often referred to as a One arm bandit ie it stole/took your money. Some venues paid in prizes which you exchanged off premises for cash ie set rate of value ( similar to payout in Japan) . I only remember being paid in cash. There was a time gap Then around the 1990s the machines that had video screen technology was introduced it was primarily a single line five hand poker game , as you call poker machines, as per video I saw this forum.
As I said Aussie like to shorten words or make slang. So what did you do yesterday? Answer l was playing the poker machines.
Both sentences would become
Q) whatcha bin doinn
A) bin playing pokies
Then other electronic machines became available of different kinds late 1990s/2000s they are placed next to poker machines and became badged as pokies in the language as well. Eventually the new machines became more successful (more profit less skill ie don’t have to think re a decision ) than the ordinary Poker video machines which became phased out.
The new electronic machines are still called pokies as most of the population has that tag embedded in national psychology. The word slots evolved because of the coin accepting slot and also as a distinction versus poker machines
So when someone here says either slots or pokies we understand electronic gaming machine.
Gas pump here is
a) petrol station
b) service station ( slang is Servo)
c) roadhouse ( out in the country area)
Fender = bumper bar /bumper.
Ketchup =tomato sauce
Catshit = opps don’t step in it , ha ha
Macca with cheese = cheese Big Mac
Thank god for god daughter who return from USA with s’mores? ( spelling) too yummy.
Kind regards

I was thinking more along the lines of "a service station which contains a Bowser' The old style pumps were atleast called Bowsers.

I understand what you mean about "pokies" now. Its sort of the same with our term 'slot machine' which can refer to just about anything that looks and acts like one but can be significant in its innards and payouts.

Quote: FleaStiff

I was thinking more along the lines of "a service station which contains a Bowser' The old style pumps were atleast called Bowsers.

I understand what you mean about "pokies" now. Its sort of the same with our term 'slot machine' which can refer to just about anything that looks and acts like one but can be significant in its innards and payouts.

Yes your quiet right about bowsers, but that word would be used less frequently now, if used to determine a location of action or meeting place re refueling a vehicle.
Q) where you going?
A) I’m off to the servo to fill the tank up.
or
Meet you at the servo.
In paying for fuel we would say pump number 2 or whatever the number is of that bowser, rarely do you hear now bowser number two, now most often it’s just $ 96:00 on 2 , thanks.
All good sometimes as I read through some posts here I don’t know your terminology of some gambling reference which I mostly put down to country specific language/jargon. Neither one of our countries being totally right or wrong. So I look at translating site via google, no joke, or I follow the meaning through reading between the lines, quite often I know what is being said but it’s just a different way of saying the same thing.
Juice and vig as an example words not used here to describe cost of doing business re placing bets. Sorry for side track off a very important topic re crown and china gaming post.
Kind regards

One of the good things about gambling here is we pay no taxes at all on any winnings. I was most surprised, years ago before I signed up to site as a poster , I would just read and not comment, that you all paid taxes on winning then the penny dropped as per the vitriol re vig and juice, the impact on the margins is high.
So yes it can be a tough day at the office for you guys.
Kind regards

Always feel free to ask for definitions of any jargon. most of the people using terms probably use them incorrectly.

Vig, short for Vigorish, is a term used to refer to the amount of money one had to pay a loan shark each week to avoid damage to your kneecaps; it was the interest that was being charged on the debt.

Juice, in Vegas, often refers to the manner in which one obtains a job in the gambling industry. To be "juiced in" means that a prospective employee walked in and said "Mr. X wants you to hire me" versus someone who walks in and applies thru the personnel department.

Can someone explain to me why the casino would care if you are playing fast? I get why they don't want people sticking cardboard or anything in the machines.

Somehow I think there's more to this cardboard in the machines, this sounds like an AP move trying to get as many spins out as possible with the least amount of effort.

Quote: AxelWolf

Can someone explain to me why the casino would care if you are playing fast? I get why they don't want people sticking cardboard or anything in the machines.

Somehow I think there's more to this cardboard in the machines, this sounds like an AP move trying to get as many spins out as possible with the least amount of effort.

I don't think the casino does - it's the people who think it's a sign of a gambling addiction that are worried. One of the other charges against the casino appeared to be some players trying to get around a daily betting cap of some sort.

If I read the Victorian state gambling regulations (where Melbourne is located) right, a slot machine must have at least 2.14 seconds between results.

I think there is some belief that the machine has to receive before it disgorges and at one time there was a historical truth to this, therefore a player has a desire to get passed the preliminary disadvantageous period, so speed is desired.

Quote: FleaStiff

I think there is some belief that the machine has to receive before it disgorges and at one time there was a historical truth to this, therefore a player has a desire to get passed the preliminary disadvantageous period, so speed is desired.

Yes there are periods on machines here of No pay whatever and yes you want to speed through that.
In Sydney casino we have a government inspector located in House on casino floor 24/7/365 ie always they do have a look around ie police no plastic wedges in button, it is by government legislation here to stop problem gamblers burning though cash so fast , they think your inclination is you’ll stop because you’ll come to your senses. Everywhere else in nsw state ( Sydney location) all gaming machines must be turned off for a period of 4hrs or so. Sydney casino has an Exemption losing machines 24hr a day.
Axel wolf not sure of your terminology re AP, casino doesn’t care and in old days would happily search for a beer coaster for you to fold into shape and put in button. Please lose faster. It was only four or so years ago that clocks/time display had to be installed by government legislation of course .
Along the lines of practice in casino advantage I used to count cards re black jack before automatic perpetual shuffling came in, all year EXCLUDES Christmas, Easter, Chinese New Year , and public holidays the cut card on a Eight deck game was Always One deck from the back. On the above mentioned times the cut card was at HALFWAY, when I asked why I was told this .(This the truth as I will remember this always ) Quote- the government regulates that at this time of year the cut card is placed deeper than normal to PROTECT the players that are here socially ( ie pissed read drunk holiday makers ) from losing their money as they are not regulars and don’t know what they are doing- in Quote
I know what half a shoe cut does to my count and the casino rake. Remember this is Australia and we have one casino per state ie 1000 miles between casino, so that’s the cost of doing business.
Kind regards