sodawater
sodawater
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January 11th, 2015 at 12:08:36 PM permalink
Quote: MrsHeartRN


BTW, can you suggest better games and better bets that I might try other than Blackjack?



Craps: Line bets with odds
Baccarat: Banker or Player

Both the easiest games to learn, and far, far, far lower house edge than LIR or 3CP.
sodawater
sodawater
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January 11th, 2015 at 12:08:58 PM permalink
Why was this thread about Atlantic City moved to

Home » Forums » Las Vegas Casinos » Silver Nugget

??
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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January 11th, 2015 at 1:30:43 PM permalink
Quote: MrsHeartRN

Thanks bw, I was there recently and saw that. Many played 3 card at the Borgata for that 100:1 mini royal payout. Those 3 card tables were empty for a very long time. I used to get mini royals all the time UNTIL they started the higher payouts on them, since they started I haven't hit one. lol

I know its bad odds but I like playing 3 card at the GN (sorry to go back there again) it's the only casino in AC where you can play more on the Pair Plus spot. You can do that in Vegas and at MS in CT. I think it's not in favor of the casino or you'd be able to do that at other casino's in AC, but I'm not certain. When the GN has $5 tables I play $25 on the PP spot and I've hit some really good hands. I have a potential to get a nice hit for around the same money as it would be if I was playing a $10 table. I like the ability to up and lower my bets dependent on if I'm getting good cards so my bankroll can last longer.

I was staying there the days that stupid progressives started. Some guy was playing that bonus and hit 4 of a kind for $1,000 and had to fill out a W2. ( know table w2's are based on progressive side bet odds). The payouts reminded me of Caribbean Stud payouts, the F's (flush, full house, four of a kind, etc.) He was livid and threw after he got paid out, threw his Borgata card at the pit boss and walked out vowing to never play at the Borgata again.



I don't know why the pair plus bet is capped by your ante bet in AC, but those bets are independent of each other. Each has a paytable and expectation and could be offered without the other. I've been to places where they don't require you to play the ante at all; you can play PP blind. So maybe AC has a reason (like game protection), or maybe they're victims of a flawed understanding of the game.

Not going to take the time to look it up right now, but the base game for 3Card is around 2% HE, and the sidebet is a little over 5% on the most common paytable.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
ECoaster
ECoaster
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January 11th, 2015 at 6:40:44 PM permalink
Quote: MrsHeartRN

When the GN has $5 tables I play $25 on the PP spot and I've hit some really good hands. I have a potential to get a nice hit for around the same money as it would be if I was playing a $10 table.



It's not the same money because if you play more (say $10 and up) on the ante (a much better bet) your long term cost of the game will be less... but I get it. You're there a short time and it's a negative expectation game no matter what-- so the bonus games hold the potential thrill of a high ratio payout if you happen to to get one of the big hands. Over time, of course, you'll lose more that way if you don't stop playing (forever) after a big hit or two.

It's the same thing with the progressives and the 6 card bonus bets... the casinos aren't exactly installing them because they decided they weren't paying out enough on 3CP. And yet, people go nuts for it and the dealers tell the players that they should make that bet because "that's where the money is".
DRich
DRich
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January 12th, 2015 at 10:19:51 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

For instance... take a Family Guy slot machine, it's probably set to hold 14% on average(atrocious). I would assume it's the same % at the casinos down the street. Again, I'm just assuming. Maybe Drich or someone in the know could shed some light on this.



You may find some small 2% fluctuations from downtown to the strip on the newer "fancier" games. The games with the large multi casino progressives will tend to have less fluctuations because the manufacturers will recommend the percentage.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
7star4now
7star4now
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January 12th, 2015 at 1:35:10 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

You may find some small 2% fluctuations from downtown to the strip on the newer "fancier" games. The games with the large multi casino progressives will tend to have less fluctuations because the manufacturers will recommend the percentage.



I'm sure the Wizard has written about this, but from what I've read , one of the biggest myths players have is that the same slot game (ex Family Guy) will have roughly the same payback across all machines & casinos

Here's an example, in one one jurisdiction, where the payback for a machine is 96.3% & an identical looking machine is 85%.

As far as I've read, AC allows multiple versions of the same slot machine game in the same casino,with the major difference between versions being the payback percentage.

"Multiple approved versions of the same game
As shown in Table 1, Ontario approves multiple versions of the same slot machine game,
with the major difference between versions being the payback percentage. The
differences in payback percentages have a direct effect on playing time. In Lobstermania,
a player wagering $1.00 per spin would lose, on average, 3.8 cents per spin on the 96.2%
game and 15 cents per spin on the 85% game. Thus, the player loses approximately four
times more money per spin on the 85% game than on the 96.2% game (15 ÷ 3.8 = 3.95).
A player arriving with a "bankroll" of $10.00 and wagering $1.00 per spin, who gambles
until the bankroll is depleted, would make, on average, 263 one-dollar wagers on the
96.2% game ($10.00 ÷ $0.038 = 263), but only 67 one-dollar wagers on the 85% game
($10.00 ÷ $0.15 = 66.7); thus a player with a specific bankroll would have approximately
four times more gambling time on the 96.2% version versus the 85% version (263 ÷ 66.7
= 3.95). "

http://stoppredatorygambling.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PAR-Sheets-Probabilities-and-Slot-Machine-Play-Implications-for-Problem-and-Non-Problem-Gambling.pdf
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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January 13th, 2015 at 4:09:16 AM permalink
Quote: 7star4now

I'm sure the Wizard has written about this, but from what I've read , one of the biggest myths players have is that the same slot game (ex Family Guy) will have roughly the same payback across all machines & casinos

Here's an example, in one one jurisdiction, where the payback for a machine is 96.3% & an identical looking machine is 85%.

As far as I've read, AC allows multiple versions of the same slot machine game in the same casino,with the major difference between versions being the payback percentage.

"Multiple approved versions of the same game
As shown in Table 1, Ontario approves multiple versions of the same slot machine game,
with the major difference between versions being the payback percentage. The
differences in payback percentages have a direct effect on playing time. In Lobstermania,
a player wagering $1.00 per spin would lose, on average, 3.8 cents per spin on the 96.2%
game and 15 cents per spin on the 85% game. Thus, the player loses approximately four
times more money per spin on the 85% game than on the 96.2% game (15 ÷ 3.8 = 3.95).
A player arriving with a "bankroll" of $10.00 and wagering $1.00 per spin, who gambles
until the bankroll is depleted, would make, on average, 263 one-dollar wagers on the
96.2% game ($10.00 ÷ $0.038 = 263), but only 67 one-dollar wagers on the 85% game
($10.00 ÷ $0.15 = 66.7); thus a player with a specific bankroll would have approximately
four times more gambling time on the 96.2% version versus the 85% version (263 ÷ 66.7
= 3.95). "

http://stoppredatorygambling.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PAR-Sheets-Probabilities-and-Slot-Machine-Play-Implications-for-Problem-and-Non-Problem-Gambling.pdf

There's no doubt they do this especially non Vegas macines. I was mainly wondering about newer glitzy type machines it's hard to have them set much worst than 14%.

10%, 14% who cares really? (both are horrible) But for me(under the right conditions), it could be a huge difference in playing a 1% loss or 3% advantage.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
7star4now
7star4now
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January 13th, 2015 at 7:27:21 AM permalink
As far as lower payback on "glitzy" machines, I think it was Boz, or somebody else on the boards recently, who found real data supporting that in fact, the more bells & whistles a machine has, the lower payback is in general.

Make sense as casinos would pay more for the fancier machine upfront, & order a lower payback version, knowing that the entertainment value to the player masks any perceived payback deficiency.

Maybe somebody remembers where I saw it.

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