Las Vegas Raiders?
February 1st, 2017 at 2:42:28 AM
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Somewhat ironic, if a hissy fit over a clash of egos is what saves us from being viciously raped by crooked politicians and narcissistic billionaires.
And the city of Vegas itself, hits a long shot to get back to even after being hopelessly buried.
But I'll take it.
And the city of Vegas itself, hits a long shot to get back to even after being hopelessly buried.
But I'll take it.
February 1st, 2017 at 2:55:51 AM
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It's hard to think Davis will find someone that wants to back this. The stadium revenue side was never going to be a sweet deal. As much as I dislike Adelson, I think he was willing to lose a little money to better the community and see an NFL stadium named after him. He probably wanted Raiders equity but surely he knew the chances of that were slim. To offset that, he probably wanted more rent and $1 a year wasn't going to make him happy, especially with UNLV being wash.
The stadium was never going to make money. UNLV won't pay anything beyond the actual costs of the events. The law explicitly states that. So you have 10 Raiders games at somewhere around $500,000 each and the Las Vegas Bowl in that same range. Maybe they draw five more events a year.
If the stadium last 25 years, which is the age of the now-shuttered Georgia Dome, the investor would need to make $26 million a year to break even on the $650 million. That seems impossible if the Raiders and five other events would pay about $8 million. That's a lot of parking fees, beer and hot dogs for the other events.
The stadium was never going to make money. UNLV won't pay anything beyond the actual costs of the events. The law explicitly states that. So you have 10 Raiders games at somewhere around $500,000 each and the Las Vegas Bowl in that same range. Maybe they draw five more events a year.
If the stadium last 25 years, which is the age of the now-shuttered Georgia Dome, the investor would need to make $26 million a year to break even on the $650 million. That seems impossible if the Raiders and five other events would pay about $8 million. That's a lot of parking fees, beer and hot dogs for the other events.
February 1st, 2017 at 7:17:37 AM
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Quote: RigondeauxSomewhat ironic, if a hissy fit over a clash of egos is what saves us from being viciously raped by crooked politicians and narcissistic billionaires.
But will it? I don't remember the details but I think the hotel tax increase sticks in either case. I know UNLV has the option to use the money to build their own stadium.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
February 1st, 2017 at 9:15:00 AM
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Hmm. Well, I'm not an expert. But, I guess if UNLV builds a more modest stadium it will at least be a publicly held asset, though still a massive loser and the squandering of a vast some of money. Might kill any future NFL deal as well, which would be great.
I guess if Adleson/Goldman genuinely feel that they won't turn a profit with 1.3 billion in handouts from us, that should get it through people's heads how unbelievably stupid it is to think we would benefit, while being the ones giving the 1.3 billion handout.
The ESPN article was unusually candid.
--The Nevada State Senate had approved a bill to fund $750 million of the proposed stadium, but support for that commitment largely came from Adelson's connections and influence, and sources told Shelburne that it should not be viewed as a "standing commitment."--
I guess if Adleson/Goldman genuinely feel that they won't turn a profit with 1.3 billion in handouts from us, that should get it through people's heads how unbelievably stupid it is to think we would benefit, while being the ones giving the 1.3 billion handout.
The ESPN article was unusually candid.
--The Nevada State Senate had approved a bill to fund $750 million of the proposed stadium, but support for that commitment largely came from Adelson's connections and influence, and sources told Shelburne that it should not be viewed as a "standing commitment."--
February 1st, 2017 at 9:53:46 AM
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Paging Mr. Wynn, Paging Mr. Wynn... Please step up to the Stadium Owner Courtesy Desk....
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
February 1st, 2017 at 1:47:28 PM
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I'm glad the deal is falling through. It irks me that the taxpayers are expected to foot much of the bill while the Raiders have the audacity to offer only $1 per year to rent the facility. I don't know all the details of who will reap the benefit of the stadium but it I think the roll of government should not be to subsidize this stadium.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
February 1st, 2017 at 2:04:17 PM
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Quote: MrVQuote: BleedingChipsSlowly
It's all about the money.
The last thing sin city needs is increase the tax on casino hotel rooms as had been discussed; with resort fees and pay to park that could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I would argue that Vegas rooms are still a better deal than many tourist destinations in the US. Deals are there if you look but I agree that it would be much better if resort fees were included.
Try booking a room from May to July in Jackson Hole. Finding a room under $300 a night is almost impossible. There are still $70 rooms most weeks year round in Vegas on the strip even with fees.
And pay to park is standard in most cities today.
No fan of casinos grabbing every dollar they can but claims that Vegas is killing itself are overblown.
February 1st, 2017 at 2:40:19 PM
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Quote: Boz...No fan of casinos grabbing every dollar they can but claims that Vegas is killing itself are overblown.
Maybe not from a gunshot to the temple, but from gangrene as the list of things that makes Las Vegas unique, and "worth it" gets shorter and shorter. Why spend the time and money and put up with the hassle, when just about everything in Las Vegas is closer, similarly priced, and just as convenient in my own or an hours closer neighboring state?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
February 1st, 2017 at 2:48:23 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaMaybe not from a gunshot to the temple, but from gangrene as the list of things that makes Las Vegas unique, and "worth it" gets shorter and shorter. Why spend the time and money and put up with the hassle, when just about everything in Las Vegas is closer, similarly priced, and just as convenient in my own or an hours closer neighboring state?
I agree with being able to get pretty much everything Vegas has to offer in many other states... but the one thing that Vegas has is 'The Destination', which is an adult playground. People just love the idea of Vegas.. and it is an excuse for many to act on all of their vices when in Vegas. Moral or immoral, legal or illegal, right or wrong, it is all good in Vegas! Plus, it is nice to cash in a winning sports ticket right after the game ends... I know we all have bookies or online sportsbook, but it is still great to have that ticket in hand and collect cash instantly.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
February 1st, 2017 at 2:53:13 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaMaybe not from a gunshot to the temple, but from gangrene as the list of things that makes Las Vegas unique, and "worth it" gets shorter and shorter. Why spend the time and money and put up with the hassle, when just about everything in Las Vegas is closer, similarly priced, and just as convenient in my own or an hours closer neighboring state?
That's my point. I don't see many places offering all LV does at the same cost. Still something there for everyone and it's still Vegas. As someone who visits 5-6 times a year, I find something new every time. But for the person who gets to go once in a lifetime, it's still at the top of many people's list.
The continued increases in customers at McCarren show more continue to visit. While some regular visitors may be upset at the changes, many more have never have been there and dream of a visit. A improvement in the economy only opens the market up to many more potential customers than will be lost.
While the greed may catch up to them at some point, I have no doubt Vegas will continue to reinvent themselves as they have always done.
February 1st, 2017 at 3:22:41 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaMaybe not from a gunshot to the temple, but from gangrene as the list of things that makes Las Vegas unique, and "worth it" gets shorter and shorter. Why spend the time and money and put up with the hassle, when just about everything in Las Vegas is closer, similarly priced, and just as convenient in my own or an hours closer neighboring state?
2 things. First if Vegas is slowly dying thru gangrene, the stats don't show it. Visitor count is up in each of the last 2 years. And it's expected to continue, absent a huge national economic downturn.
Second, face it, Vegas has not catered to people like you and me for years. It caters to the convention/special event crowd. They're the ones filling up all the hotel rooms. They don't give a yip about having to pay for parking, or screws being tightened on players' club points. For the most part, they have no idea what good gambling is, and really don't care anyway. That's why the strip has become nothing more than an expensive tourist trap, with the trap getting bigger every year. I visit Vegas from OH 3-4 times a year. I haven't set foot on the strip since at least 2014. I can find anything I need at the locals joints in Henderson or on Boulder Highway, or downtown...
February 2nd, 2017 at 4:04:11 AM
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I find it harder and harder to recommend people to visit Vegas.
Resort fees
Paid parking
Horrible odds
Voucher system for drinks
I was talking to a guy that does Uber and he recommends value-oriented locations, such as Ellis Island. Other then that, it's really hard to bring any good ideas as to why the average gambler should come out here.... Maybe poker? I know of foreigners that stay here for months to grind, but I can't imagine they are winning enough at 1/2 to cover their expenses.
I would probably say avoid the strip, stay at the off-strip properties, even the local places. If they want upscale try GVR, Red Rock. Downtown is a little tacky but I suppose it'll do for the party crowd. Basically avoid CET, MGM, Wynn, Cosmo, Venetian. Hard Rock might be a good option for just off the strip, although 6:5 on every non high limit table is kinda a horrible sight. For WSOP stay at Gold Coast or Orleans instead of the Rio, Rio is not that great (the rooms I stayed in were old, needs new carpet, new paint, and housekeepers that don't steal from rooms). Palms is another great place I recommend but with Stations taking over it's gone downhill, but still better then the big empires on the strip.
This is for people who don't have a lot of money. Obviously if you can afford $100-200 a hand the strip still is probably best for your needs.
Forgot another place; South Point. I think this is one of the best OVERALL casinos in the Las Vegas area. Good video poker paytables, promotions every now and then worth grinding, tons of food options, and the owner Micheal Gaughin seems to really live by the Benny Binion model of running a good value. Except for the double odds on craps and the funky dealer checks for BJ after you play your hand thing but other then that it seems nice. Micheal's steakhouse is one of the best places I've ever been to in my life. Never stayed at the rooms but based on how the place is run it's decent, not good or bad, but just enough.
Also a 24 hour sportsbook. I personally find it awesome they run a book like that, where you can place bets pretty much any time. Their half point payouts suck tho.
Resort fees
Paid parking
Horrible odds
Voucher system for drinks
I was talking to a guy that does Uber and he recommends value-oriented locations, such as Ellis Island. Other then that, it's really hard to bring any good ideas as to why the average gambler should come out here.... Maybe poker? I know of foreigners that stay here for months to grind, but I can't imagine they are winning enough at 1/2 to cover their expenses.
I would probably say avoid the strip, stay at the off-strip properties, even the local places. If they want upscale try GVR, Red Rock. Downtown is a little tacky but I suppose it'll do for the party crowd. Basically avoid CET, MGM, Wynn, Cosmo, Venetian. Hard Rock might be a good option for just off the strip, although 6:5 on every non high limit table is kinda a horrible sight. For WSOP stay at Gold Coast or Orleans instead of the Rio, Rio is not that great (the rooms I stayed in were old, needs new carpet, new paint, and housekeepers that don't steal from rooms). Palms is another great place I recommend but with Stations taking over it's gone downhill, but still better then the big empires on the strip.
This is for people who don't have a lot of money. Obviously if you can afford $100-200 a hand the strip still is probably best for your needs.
Forgot another place; South Point. I think this is one of the best OVERALL casinos in the Las Vegas area. Good video poker paytables, promotions every now and then worth grinding, tons of food options, and the owner Micheal Gaughin seems to really live by the Benny Binion model of running a good value. Except for the double odds on craps and the funky dealer checks for BJ after you play your hand thing but other then that it seems nice. Micheal's steakhouse is one of the best places I've ever been to in my life. Never stayed at the rooms but based on how the place is run it's decent, not good or bad, but just enough.
Also a 24 hour sportsbook. I personally find it awesome they run a book like that, where you can place bets pretty much any time. Their half point payouts suck tho.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
February 2nd, 2017 at 6:48:24 AM
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Quote: BozTry booking a room from May to July in Jackson Hole. Finding a room under $300 a night is almost impossible.
What I don't understand is why anybody would want to go there in the summer. Jackson Hole is a tourist trap.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
February 2nd, 2017 at 7:50:56 AM
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Quote: WizardI'm glad the deal is falling through. It irks me that the taxpayers are expected to foot much of the bill while the Raiders have the audacity to offer only $1 per year to rent the facility. I don't know all the details of who will reap the benefit of the stadium but it I think the roll of government should not be to subsidize this stadium.
Could not agree more
Just a total waste of tax payers money
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
March 6th, 2017 at 11:19:15 PM
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BoA commits to financing.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
March 27th, 2017 at 12:02:49 PM
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Owners approve move of franchise to Las Vegas. Target opening of NFL games in new stadium is 2020 season.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
March 27th, 2017 at 12:21:48 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaOwners approve move of franchise to Las Vegas. Target opening of NFL games in new stadium is 2020 season.
I think only 1 owner objected...
.
March 27th, 2017 at 12:51:28 PM
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When do the new visitor taxes to fund the stadium kick in?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
March 27th, 2017 at 12:59:37 PM
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Those victory parties will be taken to a whole new level with them moving to LV.
I'm very interested to see what kind of trouble the players get into...... I'm sure we will see some interesting headlines during the season...
I'm very interested to see what kind of trouble the players get into...... I'm sure we will see some interesting headlines during the season...
.
March 27th, 2017 at 1:03:12 PM
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Has anyone heard anything about personal seat licenses, or tickets at all?
I'm hoping to buy a couple.
I'm hoping to buy a couple.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
March 27th, 2017 at 3:38:58 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaWhen do the new visitor taxes to fund the stadium kick in?
I believe they kicked in within the last week or so. I remember hearing something about it starting recently and that it would go towards UNLV if the Raiders didn't get approved.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
March 27th, 2017 at 3:44:14 PM
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Quote: billryanHas anyone heard anything about personal seat licenses, or tickets at all?
I'm hoping to buy a couple.
I haven't heard anything official but there were some estimates many months ago that the PSL's would start around $3,000 for the low end season tickets. I would guess the 50 yard line will be around $25,000. I would guess the season ticket prices will start around $1,000.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
March 27th, 2017 at 10:38:59 PM
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So will my HOST be offering me FREE TICKETS to come down and watch the Detroit Lions play ??? LOL
a free flight too would be the icing on the cake
10 more weekends of fuller rooms thats for sure .... will RAIDER FANS from Oakland make the trip to fill the seats too?
a free flight too would be the icing on the cake
10 more weekends of fuller rooms thats for sure .... will RAIDER FANS from Oakland make the trip to fill the seats too?
March 28th, 2017 at 5:45:41 AM
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Quote: coilman10 more weekends of fuller rooms thats for sure .... will RAIDER FANS from Oakland make the trip to fill the seats too?
Did they make the trip to Los Angeles the years the Raiders were there?
And aren't the rooms full enough on Saturday nights as it is?
NFL fans in the Bay Area will be glad for one thing; an end to, "We cannot show the second half of today's NFL on Fox doubleheader because the Raiders have a home game at the same time on CBS." (This is a rule in every NFL home city, but it's twice as bad in New York and San Francisco/Oakland. Note that Baltimore/Washington are far enough apart that it does not apply. Yes, it also applies to CBS doubleheaders when the 49ers have a home game on Fox.) Every year, when the NFL schedule is released, one of the things that is looked at is, how many doubleheaders does the area lose because the 49ers or Raiders have a home game on the non-DH network. The NFL has been getting better at reducing this number in recent years; in the past, 12 missed doubleheaders out of 17 was not unheard of.
March 29th, 2017 at 12:37:04 AM
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Raiders are accepting $100 Deposits for future season tickets.
Its strictly limited to one deposit per household. Not sure what that means.
They may come as early as 2018 and play at Sam Boyd until the stadium is built.
I got my deposit in.
With this move, you know a Super Bowl is inevitable. Maybe sooner than later. They
tend to reward new stadiums.
Its strictly limited to one deposit per household. Not sure what that means.
They may come as early as 2018 and play at Sam Boyd until the stadium is built.
I got my deposit in.
With this move, you know a Super Bowl is inevitable. Maybe sooner than later. They
tend to reward new stadiums.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
March 29th, 2017 at 3:27:12 AM
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Welp, looks like we're out about $2 billion. I might have posted this article before, from the radical left wing, Forbes magazine.
It is a fact, we just got raped real hard.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2015/01/31/publicly-financed-sports-stadiums-are-a-game-that-taxpayers-lose/#6625c1e04f07
it doesn’t matter if businesses take in more money than taxpayers shelled out to build the stadium; what matters is whether the taxes collected from all that activity are more than the up-front taxpayer cost. A visitor to the Super Bowl might spend $500 on an airplane ticket, $2000 on his hotel, $300 on food, plus $500 on the ticket to the game. That sounds like a lot of economic activity for just one visitor. However, the plane ticket generates roughly zero money for local and state governments (there may be some airport taxes but they will go toward running the airport). The hotel stay probably produces $200-250 in tax revenue, the restaurant bills another $20, and the game ticket another $35. That means the over $3000 in spending really amounts to around $300 in tax revenue.
Some of that tax revenue has to go toward government costs associated with the holding of sports events: extra police, traffic control, perhaps more public transit, etc. At the end of the day, only a very small fraction of total spending associated with stadium events is left over to help pay back the taxpayers for building a stadium.
businesses near the stadium like restaurants and hotels might win from the extra local spending, but why should taxpayers pay so that a few favored businesses can see greater profits?
On to the second point. When people spend money to go to a sporting event, they cannot just pull that money out of thin air (tragic, but true). Rather, the money comes from their family budget, meaning something else has to give. If I buy tickets to an Atlanta Hawks game, the result of that spending might mean several fewer trips to the movies, not going to a local amusement park, or not going to a local restaurant or two.
Stadium boosters like to point to all the money I will spend going to, at, and associated with my trip to see the Hawks, but they never focus on the fact that other businesses are going to lose a roughly equal amount of spending that I would have done instead.
It is a fact, we just got raped real hard.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2015/01/31/publicly-financed-sports-stadiums-are-a-game-that-taxpayers-lose/#6625c1e04f07
it doesn’t matter if businesses take in more money than taxpayers shelled out to build the stadium; what matters is whether the taxes collected from all that activity are more than the up-front taxpayer cost. A visitor to the Super Bowl might spend $500 on an airplane ticket, $2000 on his hotel, $300 on food, plus $500 on the ticket to the game. That sounds like a lot of economic activity for just one visitor. However, the plane ticket generates roughly zero money for local and state governments (there may be some airport taxes but they will go toward running the airport). The hotel stay probably produces $200-250 in tax revenue, the restaurant bills another $20, and the game ticket another $35. That means the over $3000 in spending really amounts to around $300 in tax revenue.
Some of that tax revenue has to go toward government costs associated with the holding of sports events: extra police, traffic control, perhaps more public transit, etc. At the end of the day, only a very small fraction of total spending associated with stadium events is left over to help pay back the taxpayers for building a stadium.
businesses near the stadium like restaurants and hotels might win from the extra local spending, but why should taxpayers pay so that a few favored businesses can see greater profits?
On to the second point. When people spend money to go to a sporting event, they cannot just pull that money out of thin air (tragic, but true). Rather, the money comes from their family budget, meaning something else has to give. If I buy tickets to an Atlanta Hawks game, the result of that spending might mean several fewer trips to the movies, not going to a local amusement park, or not going to a local restaurant or two.
Stadium boosters like to point to all the money I will spend going to, at, and associated with my trip to see the Hawks, but they never focus on the fact that other businesses are going to lose a roughly equal amount of spending that I would have done instead.
March 29th, 2017 at 5:02:44 AM
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Quote: Rigondeaux
the money comes from their family budget, meaning something else has to give.
You are so right. There are a lot of families who will forsake that $100 trip to the movie theater, but instead spend $7200 (your figure) on a trip to the Super Bowl.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
March 29th, 2017 at 5:29:08 AM
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Gambling and NFL go hand in hand. Delighted with this!!
Fun loving bloke, absolutely love music and going to Ibiza. Girls, banter... love it!
March 29th, 2017 at 6:37:56 AM
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Quote: DeMangoYou are so right. There are a lot of families who will forsake that $100 trip to the movie theater, but instead spend $7200 (your figure) on a trip to the Super Bowl.
I didn't write the article, but that's an embarrassing attempt at a rebuttal.
Creating a new thing to spend money on doesn't magically give people more money to spend, as proponents of stadiums argue.
Not that they actually believe it, they just correctly assume many others are dumb enough to.
Publicly financed stadiums are objectively rip offs. Here's another article. Well, more just some infographics. But keep in mind, we got a far worse deal than most other cities, and they were all ripped off.
http://reason.com/archives/2015/12/01/economists-agree-publicly-financed-sport
Economists Agree: Publicly Financed Sports Stadiums Are a Bust.
March 29th, 2017 at 6:45:46 AM
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Can someone explain to me is going on with the funding? I thought Sheldon Adelson backed out so who will fill that void?
For what its worth, I oppose the state subsidizing a new stadium. I'm okay with the state being involved in the deal but it should be entitled to recoup its expense.
For what its worth, I oppose the state subsidizing a new stadium. I'm okay with the state being involved in the deal but it should be entitled to recoup its expense.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 29th, 2017 at 6:53:13 AM
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Quote: billryanWith this move, you know a Super Bowl is inevitable. Maybe sooner than later. They tend to reward new stadiums.
Is it big enough? I thought there was a minimum capacity requirement for Super Bowls. 65,000 would be the smallest Super Bowl attendance in decades.
Of course, it has two advantages; it's somewhere where it is not expected to rain, and even if it does rain, it has the retractable roof.
Note that the Super Bowl sites through February 2021 have already been selected, although seeing how the stadium is handling the NFL for a few years is probably a good idea before giving it a Super Bowl, especially in light of the complaints about the field in Santa Clara (which had been dogging the 49ers pretty much since the stadium opened).
I still have to wonder if the Nevada Gaming Commission would honor a request by the NFL Commissioner that the books not accept any wagers on a Las Vegas Super Bowl. I can almost hear the casinos' public reason for why the request should be denied: "You know they're just going to bet with each other anyway." Not to be confused with the realm private, reason, which is, "They're getting wise to paid parking, resort fees, and 6-5 blackjack; we need to make money somehow."
March 29th, 2017 at 6:59:04 AM
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A big name financial institution.Quote: WizardCan someone explain to me is going on with the funding? I thought Sheldon Adelson backed out so who will fill that void?
Bank of America, if I recall correctly.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 29th, 2017 at 6:59:41 AM
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Quote: RigondeauxI didn't write the article, but that's an embarrassing attempt at a rebuttal.
I'm not embarrassed at all, after all it's really fake news to bring in the "family" into this argument. Whether your quote or the news artist. All a money game by the rich and for the rich ticket buyers. Paid for by the financiers and visitors, both to the game and to Las Vegas. And of course the advertisers who bankroll the NFL
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
March 29th, 2017 at 7:17:30 AM
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Quote: DeMangoI'm not embarrassed at all, after all it's really fake news to bring in the "family" into this argument. Whether your quote or the news artist. All a money game by the rich and for the rich ticket buyers. Paid for by the financiers and visitors, both to the game and to Las Vegas. And of course the advertisers who bankroll the NFL
I don't really understand this, but I think I agree with the gist of it.
His point was that publicly financed stadiums don't create new spending out of thin air. Rather, people go to a game instead of doing something else, as very few have unlimited budget. So the team makes money, and Chuck E. Cheese and the movie theater (or whatever) lose money.
He was using a family budget as an example.
March 29th, 2017 at 7:27:50 AM
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As a Vegas Local who doesn't care about going to games(been there, done that). Can anyone explain how this might benefit me?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
March 29th, 2017 at 8:12:29 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfAs a Vegas Local who doesn't care about going to games(been there, done that). Can anyone explain how this might benefit me?
It doesn't. Only a tax burden on you.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
March 29th, 2017 at 9:20:32 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfAs a Vegas Local who doesn't care about going to games(been there, done that). Can anyone explain how this might benefit me?
It will let you dress up like a crazy out of town fan, in for the game, eight weekends a year, giving you camouflage to gamble.
Poker players will get more fresh fish to fry.The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
March 29th, 2017 at 1:52:18 PM
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It's a tax on poker players and APs as much as anyone else. The first $750 million in tax will be taken from tourists. Instead of it being spent at the tables (and restaurants, clubs, etc) and then circulating through the local economy, it will be diverted into the pockets of Mark Davis and B of A.
March 29th, 2017 at 4:54:58 PM
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That $750 million will bring a lot on construction jobs, and all those salaries will filter down to the local economy. Then it will provide hundreds of jobs every time there is an event there., not to mention the influx of people for each event.
I just read that the NCAA ban on Tournament games in North Carolina is costing them in excess of two hundred and fifty million per year.
I just read that the NCAA ban on Tournament games in North Carolina is costing them in excess of two hundred and fifty million per year.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
March 29th, 2017 at 11:22:08 PM
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I'll listen to the economists on this one.
I don't think gigs working security or selling beer 8, ok, maybe 12 to 15 times a year are going to make up for handing over that sum of money to B of A and Bowl Head.
I'm not sure people really think about the amounts here. For the $750,000,000 alone, which is just part of it, you could pick 10,000 people and just cut them a check for 75k. You could hold a lotto, or help people pay off their houses, or go to college. Or, you could just not raise taxes.
You could multiply UNLV's endowment by ten, which just might do more to create long term jobs than building a few dozen hog dog stands in a venue built to generate TV revenue for ultra rich people who don't live here.
It's a massive amount of money for a city this size. More than our entire budget for a year.
I don't think gigs working security or selling beer 8, ok, maybe 12 to 15 times a year are going to make up for handing over that sum of money to B of A and Bowl Head.
I'm not sure people really think about the amounts here. For the $750,000,000 alone, which is just part of it, you could pick 10,000 people and just cut them a check for 75k. You could hold a lotto, or help people pay off their houses, or go to college. Or, you could just not raise taxes.
You could multiply UNLV's endowment by ten, which just might do more to create long term jobs than building a few dozen hog dog stands in a venue built to generate TV revenue for ultra rich people who don't live here.
It's a massive amount of money for a city this size. More than our entire budget for a year.
March 29th, 2017 at 11:56:36 PM
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If you took 10,000 poor people and handed them $75,00 0each, in three years 99% of them would be broke and have kids they can't afford.
What I don't understand is what money are we handing over to Bank America? They are putting up the money to finance the stadium and will be paid back with interest. The money to pay them back comes from tourisst. Find me a tourist who isn't going to come to Vegas because he will pay an extra dollar a day in taxes, and I'll find you ten frat boys more than willing to take his seat on the plane.
What I don't understand is what money are we handing over to Bank America? They are putting up the money to finance the stadium and will be paid back with interest. The money to pay them back comes from tourisst. Find me a tourist who isn't going to come to Vegas because he will pay an extra dollar a day in taxes, and I'll find you ten frat boys more than willing to take his seat on the plane.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
March 30th, 2017 at 12:23:15 AM
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If you give a billionaire $750,000,000, in three years, you'll be giving him another $750,000,000, until you don't have more to give him.Quote: billryanIf you took 10,000 poor people and handed them $75,00 0each, in three years 99% of them would be broke and have kids they can't afford.
What I don't understand is what money are we handing over to Bank America? They are putting up the money to finance the stadium and will be paid back with interest. The money to pay them back comes from tourisst. Find me a tourist who isn't going to come to Vegas because he will pay an extra dollar a day in taxes, and I'll find you ten frat boys more than willing to take his seat on the plane.
I am a robot.
March 30th, 2017 at 1:20:20 AM
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Quote: billryanIf you took 10,000 poor people and handed them $75,00 0each, in three years 99% of them would be broke and have kids they can't afford.
What I don't understand is what money are we handing over to Bank America? They are putting up the money to finance the stadium and will be paid back with interest. The money to pay them back comes from tourisst. Find me a tourist who isn't going to come to Vegas because he will pay an extra dollar a day in taxes, and I'll find you ten frat boys more than willing to take his seat on the plane.
Tourism is our chief revenue source, by a wide margin. The, "it's just a tax on tourists" argument is like saying to a guy who owns a car dealership, "we're only going to tax your revenue from selling cars."
Of course there are marginal points where people stop coming. Otherwise we could raise the tax on tourists a dollar a day forever, and we could all live like kings.
Moreover, those who do come have a dollar less to spend. Add it up, and it's $750 million, transferred from our economy to a bunch of rich people out of town.
How are we handing the money over? I don't know the details between Davis and BofA. But we are giving them a bunch of money and they are keeping it.
We won't get paid back a penny, never mind interest. We'll have no ownership stake. They won't even pay taxes on the money they make on the business that we financed.
If you think this is a good deal, perhaps you'd like to buy me into some poker tournaments. You put up half the money. I take all winnings. You'll have to pay for my transportation and security as well. But if I win enough money, I will buy an overpriced beer from you eight times per year.
March 30th, 2017 at 5:03:05 AM
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Missing in this discussion is the value of the enjoyment one gets by having a football team in your city. For me, I like listening to the off season drivel surrounding the Bills, I enjoy the games, I enjoy taking care off the occasional player, I enjoy the feel of the town after a win. Exactly how much is it worth to me? Who knows? But it is not zero.
March 30th, 2017 at 5:10:40 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOMissing in this discussion is the value of the enjoyment one gets by having a football team in your city. For me, I like listening to the off season drivel surrounding the Bills, I enjoy the games, I enjoy taking care off the occasional player, I enjoy the feel of the town after a win. Exactly how much is it worth to me? Who knows? But it is not zero.
We could have made UNLV into a national power with about $200 million in spending. And putting that money into our university would have had a much greater return to the city than giving it to the billionaires. You should see how much people love hearing drivel about major college programs
Everyone agrees the return from this will be greater than zero. Everyone also agrees it isn't going to come anywhere close to what the tax payers are spending
March 30th, 2017 at 5:17:09 AM
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Quote: billryanThe money to pay them back comes from tourisst.
The money is coming from the tax payers. The extra money people now have to spend on hotels could been used to reduce our sales taxes and property taxes.
If there is any need to raise money any time in the future, will we be able to just keep increasing taxes on hotels and tourists forever? Probably not, which means we have now lost a future billion dollar revenue stream
In fact, our sales taxes were raised at the same time this hotel tax was raised and they are likely going to be raised again very soon.
March 30th, 2017 at 8:24:47 AM
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I suppose it's all relative. I just moved here from NY, where I paid more in property taxes than I currently spend on rent.
Taxes here could double tomorrow and I'd still say they were cheap.
I guess if you have lived here twenty years, you might think things are getting expensive. I'm still adjusting to paying a dollar less for a gallon of milk, no state( or city) income tax and while house hunting, I still do a double clutch to make sure they haven't left a zero or two off prospective tax rates.
I'm a football fan who will enjoy going to games. My personal seat license fee, like the other 65,000 will, as far as I know, be used to pay back the cost of the stadium and the City is getting an NFL team at almost no cost to the locals.
Some will appreciate what that means, some wouldn't, some will be apathetic.
Some won't realize what having two major league sports franchises means for a city.
Taxes here could double tomorrow and I'd still say they were cheap.
I guess if you have lived here twenty years, you might think things are getting expensive. I'm still adjusting to paying a dollar less for a gallon of milk, no state( or city) income tax and while house hunting, I still do a double clutch to make sure they haven't left a zero or two off prospective tax rates.
I'm a football fan who will enjoy going to games. My personal seat license fee, like the other 65,000 will, as far as I know, be used to pay back the cost of the stadium and the City is getting an NFL team at almost no cost to the locals.
Some will appreciate what that means, some wouldn't, some will be apathetic.
Some won't realize what having two major league sports franchises means for a city.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
March 30th, 2017 at 8:26:53 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOMissing in this discussion is the value of the enjoyment one gets by having a football team in your city. For me, I like listening to the off season drivel surrounding the Bills, I enjoy the games, I enjoy taking care off the occasional player, I enjoy the feel of the town after a win. Exactly how much is it worth to me? Who knows? But it is not zero.
Is there a lot of people in the Buffalo area with the Bills logo tatted on their faces? Do they walk around saying "orale I'm a Bills fan eseeeeee"? Cause that would be awesome. We Raiders fans have a proud history of commitment to excellence :)
100% risk of ruin
March 30th, 2017 at 8:38:04 AM
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Quote: RogerKintIs there a lot of people in the Buffalo area with the Bills logo tatted on their faces? Do they walk around saying "orale I'm a Bills fan eseeeeee"? Cause that would be awesome. We Raiders fans have a proud history of commitment to excellence :)
We have a long history of commitment to mediocrity..... There are many locals that take their fandom to the extreme...... I can honestly say if the Bills left it would be a big blow to this town.... Worth a billion dollars of taxpayer money that we cannot afford? Who knows....
March 30th, 2017 at 8:53:31 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOWe have a long history of commitment to mediocrity..... There are many locals that take their fandom to the extreme...... I can honestly say if the Bills left it would be a big blow to this town.... Worth a billion dollars of taxpayer money that we cannot afford? Who knows....
Do you think crime would steadily drop in the area if the Bills left?
All that extra tax money may be spent on law enforcement jobs. Detective Shackleford?
100% risk of ruin
