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Feeding Frenzy - roulette question

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March 24th, 2011 at 4:16:24 PM permalink
teeth1
Member since: Feb 23, 2011
Threads: 2
Posts: 79
From reading another thread, it appears that Casinos have the following legal options in an attempt to change the probability outcome of the wheel -

Ball - size, speed and direction.

Wheel - speed and direction.

How many variables are involved if, not to complicate things too much, speed is defined as fast or slow only?
And, would these actions actually influence the probability of the game?
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipes but doesn't.
March 24th, 2011 at 4:24:15 PM permalink
algle
Member since: Aug 12, 2010
Threads: 1
Posts: 77
Quote: teeth1
And, would these actions actually influence the probability of the game?


No.
As long as the wheel is true, all ball and speed variables are effectively irrelevant.

I have seen different ball sizes used within the same casino, some even have more than one ball per table. The "spare" ball can sometimes be seen sitting in a little indentation at the top and centre of the wheel. The ball is sometimes swapped after a mis-spin when the dealer accidentally sends the current ball flying off the wheel.
If nothing will change then I am nothing.
March 24th, 2011 at 4:59:42 PM permalink
MathExtremist
Member since: Aug 31, 2010
Threads: 46
Posts: 2521
Quote: teeth1
From reading another thread, it appears that Casinos have the following legal options in an attempt to change the probability outcome of the wheel -

No, the casino has no legal options to change the probability of the wheel. Using different wheels, balls, or other equipment should not alter the long-run probability of each roulette number appearing 1 in 38 (or 37) times. If that changes, so does the house edge, and at least one of the bets will become more favorable to the player than it currently is. That opens the door to players having an edge over the house, something the casino doesn't want.

What a casino may do, however, is use different equipment to speed up the game, thereby achieving more spins per hour and higher revenues. But that's due to volume, not any change of probabilities.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
March 24th, 2011 at 5:16:21 PM permalink
EvenBob
Member since: Jul 18, 2010
Threads: 231
Posts: 6405
Quote: teeth1


How many variables are involved if, not to complicate things too much, speed is defined as fast or slow only?
And, would these actions actually influence the probability of the game?


In one of my casinos, they have 4 different sized balls. Somebody comes back from a break, grabs a different ball and speeds up or slows down the wheel. It effects the outcome not a whit. I have 3 roulette wheels. An expensive 24" wheel thats a smaller version of a casino wheel. An antique 16" wooden wheel, and a plastic 12" wheel. I use all 3 periodically and can't tell the difference in the outcomes. I do equally well on all 3, there seems to be no difference at all.
One casino owner to another: "It would be so much easier if we could just hit them over the head, steal their money, and throw their bodies in the creek." Al Swearengen, Deadwood
March 24th, 2011 at 5:16:59 PM permalink
FleaStiff
Member since: Oct 19, 2009
Threads: 75
Posts: 4827
alternating the little white ball size is simply a game protection technique which also keeps the game moving if there are any errant spins. Most people don't even notice that a different sized ball is often switched in and out.
March 24th, 2011 at 6:10:52 PM permalink
teeth1
Member since: Feb 23, 2011
Threads: 2
Posts: 79
If these actions don't alter the overall result, except the frequency, then why bother using them?
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipes but doesn't.
March 24th, 2011 at 6:17:53 PM permalink
EvenBob
Member since: Jul 18, 2010
Threads: 231
Posts: 6405
Quote: teeth1
If these actions don't alter the overall result, except the frequency, then why bother using them?


Dealers have told me the size of their hands effects the size of the ball they're comfortable throwing. Big hands like bigger balls, smaller hands smaller balls. There isn't any more to it than that.
One casino owner to another: "It would be so much easier if we could just hit them over the head, steal their money, and throw their bodies in the creek." Al Swearengen, Deadwood
March 24th, 2011 at 6:28:44 PM permalink
teeth1
Member since: Feb 23, 2011
Threads: 2
Posts: 79
Quote: EvenBob
Dealers have told me the size of their hands effects the size of the ball they're comfortable throwing. Big hands like bigger balls, smaller hands smaller balls. There isn't any more to it than that.


That still leaves the different directions, perhaps it depends on whether the spinner is right or left handed.
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipes but doesn't.
March 24th, 2011 at 6:33:02 PM permalink
DJTeddyBear
Member since: Nov 2, 2009
Threads: 105
Posts: 5727
It's easier to predict where the ball will land if the ball and wheel spin in the same direction. (Note: That doesn't mean it's easy, just easier.) Therefore, it's always opposite.

Our member Croupier is a Roulette Croupier in the UK. He has mentioned that there, they change directions every spin. Or maybe that's every couple spins. Whatever...
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood?
March 24th, 2011 at 6:50:28 PM permalink
ahiromu
Member since: Jan 15, 2010
Threads: 56
Posts: 552
I think a smaller ball and faster spinning roulette table would only help increase randomness. A large ball in a slow spinning wheel is just asking to be taken advantage of.
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