Craps and Roulette Regulations

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December 19th, 2010 at 2:11:27 AM permalink
focd
Member since: Sep 15, 2010
Threads: 19
Posts: 128
I have a question as to why some states won't allow casinos to use real dice or real roulette wheels to determine the outcome for gaming purposes. California has its own laws that prohibit casinos from doing so but why? Wouldn't using real dice and real roulette wheels bring in more money and make things less complicated for casinos anyway? I can understand if Nevada mandated that California can't use dice, but why would the California government do that to their own casinos? I'm pretty sure it will generate a lot more revenue if they let casinos do what they want in CA.
December 19th, 2010 at 3:18:48 AM permalink
FleaStiff
Member since: Oct 19, 2009
Threads: 175
Posts: 9105
Are you trying to find logic or common sense involving legislation on any subject, much less on gambling?

Nevada law has no effect on gambling in California. The California legislation predates the rise of Indian casinos.
December 19th, 2010 at 3:20:32 AM permalink
focd
Member since: Sep 15, 2010
Threads: 19
Posts: 128
So my question is why doesn't CA allow their own casinos to use real dice in craps.
December 19th, 2010 at 3:32:05 AM permalink
darkoz
Member since: Dec 22, 2009
Threads: 46
Posts: 356
When I first arrived in california I went looking for a roulette wheel in the regular casinos. The manager of one of them explained why.

According to him, California legislators felt that gambling being the evil it is, should be limited to only games involving a modicum of skill.

Throwing dice or spinning balls around a wheel are pure chance. All of the legal games therefore, require decisions by the player which will affect the final outcome(blackjack, Pai gow, etc).
December 19th, 2010 at 3:40:05 AM permalink
focd
Member since: Sep 15, 2010
Threads: 19
Posts: 128
This doesn't make much sense to me. So what about baccarrat? I think they only allow card games in CA. Even with CA craps and roulette, it's still all chance so why would they allow it then? Also, I have seen 1 place that has a real roulette wheel with a single 0 in CA (Barona Casino).
December 19th, 2010 at 6:39:03 AM permalink
darkoz
Member since: Dec 22, 2009
Threads: 46
Posts: 356
All the games in CA. require decision making by the player. I think the indian reservation casino's may be exempt, not sure.

I saw Pai Gow tiles in one casino but most have nothing but card games because they require decisions. Even Baccarat requires a choice of taking another card. Supposedly this denotes skill, even if luck plays a part in most cases.

As for real roulette wheels, I have not been to the Barona but a few casino's in CA have real wheels, HOWEVER, they are tied to some type of decision based on cards that are dealt. I know one wheel has a card dealt to the player and then the wheel is spun and if it lands in the quadrant that matches the cards color, then the card's number makes the decision of a winner or a loser. It's something ridiculous like that but is designed to skirt the regulations of CA.
December 19th, 2010 at 6:48:04 AM permalink
darkoz
Member since: Dec 22, 2009
Threads: 46
Posts: 356
Also note the CA legislators did not want the casino's with big bankrolls to "fight" against the little guy. So, casino's in california cannot bank. Instead, another player must bank and the casino makes its money by charging a "fee" each hand for the right to play. This actually raises the vig on all games astronomically making it impossible to ever really get ahead(you pay for play so it's one dollar from you when win and one dollar from you when you lose on top of the actual amount you lost for the bet--yeesh.)

If that were not funny enough, the casinos recognize most players do not have the financing to bank, so they contract rich independent companies to send in skilled players who bank against the player. The casino does collect a fee from them as well but the irony is the average player with small bankroll still has to "go up against" a player with an insurmountable one, just not the casino. All the while fighting a game with -ev and a fee for playing.

My suggestion after playing in CA for a small while, wait till you take a trip to Vegas. There is a reason why Vegas is not threatened by CA casinos.
December 19th, 2010 at 7:17:33 AM permalink
SanchoPanza
Member since: May 10, 2010
Threads: 30
Posts: 1682
Quote: darkoz
All the games in CA. require decision making by the player. I think the indian reservation casino's may be exempt, not sure.

Precisely what decision do the current California methods allow that throwing the dice do not?
Quote: darkoz
CA legislators did not want the casino's with big bankrolls to "fight" against the little guy. So, casino's in california cannot bank.

That has nothing at all to do with rolling dice.
Quote: darkoz
Another player must bank and the casino makes its money by charging a "fee" each hand for the right to play. This actually raises the vig on all games astronomically making it impossible to ever really get ahead(you pay for play so it's one dollar from you when win and one dollar from you when you lose on top of the actual amount you lost for the bet--yeesh.)

Again, that has nothing at all to do with rolling dice.
Quote: darkoz
There is a reason why Vegas is not threatened by CA casinos.

There is a bigger reason why Vegas numbers have plummeted since their peak. And it is more than the general economic recession. A basic fact is that the decline coincides with the expansion of casinos in California, and every corporation with holdings in Las Vegas knows that all too well.
December 19th, 2010 at 9:04:35 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 14, 2009
Threads: 619
Posts: 11575
There is indeed an old California law that could be interpreted to say that the dice and roulette wheel can't alone determine the outcome of a bet. I'm sure a puritan anti-gambling forces were behind it. It would take a change in the state constitution to repeal that, which there isn't the political will to do. So they have to add another step involving cards to resolve bets in those two games.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
December 19th, 2010 at 9:24:25 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Nov 22, 2009
Threads: 20
Posts: 807
It may be related to the same reasoning that applied in Canada for years. All dice games were illegal Canada wide until about 1990 (not sure of exact date). It was a specific law that was enacted early in the 20th century when craps was still played in back alleys. It took some time for this law to be repealed after other gambling and casinos had become established through gambling enabling legislation.
"Computers are useless they only give answers" Picasso
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