55
Joined: Apr 29, 2017
• Posts: 2
April 29th, 2017 at 11:35:38 AM permalink
Hi all,

I have a local game to me that has some unusual payoffs for player's club members. The games in question are blackjack.
6D, DoA, DAS, RSA, H17, BJ Pays 3:2 (\$5 min.)
or
DD, D10, No DAS, RSA, H17, BJ Pays 3:2 (\$10 min.)

Both games have an additional rule for players with a players card:

5-card-21 (as opposed to 5 card charlie) pays \$50 (10 to 1 on 6D min. or 5 to 1 on DD min.)
7-7-7 pays \$25 (5 to 1 on 6D min. or 2.5 to 1 on DD min.)
Suited 7-7-7 pays \$75 (15 to 1 on 6D min. or 7.5 to 1 on DD min.)

All of these payoffs are the flat amount posted and are independent of bet size, they do not require an additional wager, only the possession of a player's card.

My question is, would this be enough to create a player edge for a flat minimum bet with perfect basic strategy? If so, how much of an edge?

Should I be using a different basic strategy for these rules?

For a counter using Hi-Lo, how would this effect index plays? For example 16v10.

I've dug up some information on 5-card-21 paying 2 to 1 and 7-7-7 paying 3 to 2. Which shift the HE .2% and .01% towards the player, respectively. However I could not find anything for this flat pay bonus. It seems like there might be a player advantage if betting the minimum with perfect basic strategy, and perhaps a bigger advantage if there were an adjusted basic strategy for the ruleset.
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
• Posts: 8961
April 29th, 2017 at 1:30:33 PM permalink
Quote: 55

I've dug up some information on 5-card-21 paying 2 to 1 and 7-7-7 paying 3 to 2. Which shift the HE .2% and .01% towards the player, respectively. However I could not find anything for this flat pay bonus. It seems like there might be a player advantage if betting the minimum with perfect basic strategy, and perhaps a bigger advantage if there were an adjusted basic strategy for the ruleset.

Maybe I am too simplistic in my logic, here, but if that's the case based on a one unit bet, then all you have to do is shift the five-card BJ to 10 to 1 because you're getting paid \$50 rather than \$10 on a \$5 bet. If that is the case, then that shifts the HE 1% in your favor. (.2% * 5) If the 7-7-7 pays 3:2, but now it just pays 5:1 (\$25 on a \$5 bet) then it would have paid \$7.50 normally, 25/7.5 = 3.333 .01 * 3.333 = .033%, so that would be the swing.

In total, it would swing the HE 1.33% based on a \$5 bet. If you base it on a \$10 bet, then it would swing it half of that.
Vultures can't be choosers.
ChesterDog
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
• Posts: 557
April 30th, 2017 at 5:34:38 AM permalink
Quote: 55

...5-card-21 (as opposed to 5 card charlie) pays \$50 (10 to 1 on 6D min. or 5 to 1 on DD min.)
7-7-7 pays \$25 (5 to 1 on 6D min. or 2.5 to 1 on DD min.)
Suited 7-7-7 pays \$75 (15 to 1 on 6D min. or 7.5 to 1 on DD min.)...

Whenever the dealer reaches 21, are these special hands also paid, or are they pushes?

[BTW: Do the double-deck games also have signs saying that a player with a player's card gets paid \$25 for suited 7-7-7? (lol)]
55
Joined: Apr 29, 2017
• Posts: 2
May 2nd, 2017 at 11:25:23 AM permalink
If you have a 5 card 21 and the dealer makes 21. You get the \$50 bonus, and your blackjack bet pushes.

They don't have signs advertising the rule at all, I have called them on telling newbies that on doubledeck before though.
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
• Posts: 8883
May 2nd, 2017 at 12:42:31 PM permalink
Quote: 55

If you have a 5 card 21 and the dealer makes 21. You get the \$50 bonus, and your blackjack bet pushes.

They don't have signs advertising the rule at all, I have called them on telling newbies that on doubledeck before though.

How do they pay 7-7-7 suited 7.5:1 on DD? An impossible hand. Perhaps they pay colors, not suits?
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."