Exceeding the Limit allowed at the table

I was playing craps and I placed 10 dollars on the pass line. It was 3x4x5x craps and the point was 4. So I am only allowed to bet 30 dollars behind the pass line. However, being a new player, I got the 3x4x5x system confused and placed 50 dollars there instead of 30. Fortunately, I won the bet and the pit boss told me that I can only be paid for the 30 dollars and not the excess 20 dollars after he found out I had over bet when the dealer was paying me. So my question is, what if I had lost the bet and had realized that I over bet before they took my wager? Can I ask them to give me back the 20 dollars? Thanks.

You could ask. Whether they would refund you the overage is a different story. I suspect they would have swept it up, "Line Away!" and you would never have been the wiser.

It is the dealer and boxman's jobs to double check the odds bets. They should have caught it early, but on a busy table, it is easy to overlook. When the pit boss has to get involved, it is never a good day for anyone on the crew, so I suspect some retraining was in store for that shift later.

I just saw this happen this past weekend. I think it was at xxxx (decided to delete the name as I am not positive which casino it happened at). A person over bet the odds and the point hit. When they discovered the over bet, they paid the excess at 1:1, same as the pass line. So you know they will take the over bet there, as they are declaring any over bet is a pass line bet.

What I've seen most frequently is to pay the overage as if it were a place bet, so 9:5 for a win on a 4. And if it was a loser, they would take it same as a place bet.

But I did once have them refund the extra on a loss, on a cruise ship no less.

Well, something similiar has hapenned to me but I am not sure if it's a fare situation. Once I was playing baccarat at the table limit, U$200, and was payed for a player bet. So I left the ammount received there, which added to U$400, and won again. The croupier wanted to pay me only U$200 and since I did not agree she asked the pit boss which told her to pay me fully once it was her job to check my bet before giving the cards. This hapenned at Argentina, South America.

I'm just curious as to where this was? The US? Seriously, now I'm starting to feel ripped off. I wonder if there is an "official" law or rule as to how this is handled. I mean not just in terms of overbetting in craps like this situation but any other over betting situation. It's odd how they don't have some official set of rules made conspicuous for all players that are posted on casino websites.

My incident was held in January 2009 at Casino Iguazu, Misiones, Argentina. Just near the Falls!

Quote: focd

It's odd how they don't have some official set of rules made conspicuous for all players that are posted on casino websites.

An official rule prominently posted would be akin to that hotel that placed notices in all the rooms: Do not fish from your window. After those notices went up, all those drunken guests fished from their windows. If you put a notice up at a craps table about betting more odds than you are entitled to, there will then be a zillion such incidents.

You know darn well the crew checks for bets that are below the table minimum and will open their yaps instantly, so it really should be the crews responsibility to check for over-betting, just as it is the dealers responsibility to alert the player to an overage situation where the bet is still legal but going to cost the winning player on payout.

I understand that often the excess is simply paid at 1:1, but I've no idea what the gaming board requires, if anything.

I do think its a rare event and that its the player's responsibility to learn the game but as long as the casino invites neophyte passersby with booze in them to play, then the casino should expect some mistakes.

deleted

I asked a pit boss today at a different casino and he said they count that as a bet. If you lose, you will lose everything including the excess amount. If you win, they will pay you but at a different rate or something. I am a new player so I don't remember everything he told me. But yes, with the incident yesterday, I really forgot if the dealer paid me 1:1 or if she simply returned the excess without counting it as a bet. I was really tired, but if I remember correctly, they simply just returned the 20 excess dollars without paying me.

Quote: FleaStiff

An official rule prominently posted would be akin to that hotel that placed notices in all the rooms: Do not fish from your window. After those notices went up, all those drunken guests fished from their windows. If you put a notice up at a craps table about betting more odds than you are entitled to, there will then be a zillion such incidents.

Well, maybe the notice should not be placed conspicuously, but rather somewhere that can be found by the player if needed. These things do happen quite often and as you can see there is confusion as to what is "fair" or "proper". If the house has to worry that people are going to bet incorrectly, then they should implement some kind of commission/penalty when these things happen. That's why I don't think the analogy works so well in this situation. Fishing out the window is not a known problem casinos face, but overbetting can be. When you have these types of situations and it's not clear what should be done, then clear objective rules should be made available if requested.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

You are supposed to have any amount which is overbet returned to you whether it wins or loses.

I'm just curious as to how you got this information.

This past weekend at the Palazzo someone had $10 on pass and $50 on the odds on a 5. The max is $40. Fever came home and they paid $70 for the pass and odds and another $14 for the access $10. So they treated it as a place bet.

For those who are interested, there is no official rule for the state of California as to what is done in those situations. Some places take your bets entirely while some do not count the excess and return it if you lose the bet.

At Seneca Niagara they return all bets over the max, unpaid, whether they won or lost. At least that was the answer they give.....

Quote: focd

I wonder if there is an "official" law or rule as to how this is handled. I mean not just in terms of overbetting in craps like this situation but any other over betting situation. It's odd how they don't have some official set of rules made conspicuous for all players that are posted on casino websites.

You can bet (no pun intended) that there are "official rules" for most any casino, but they are rules made by the gaming commission, not the casino. Here in PA the gaming commission regulates odds bets (10xs max for now) and in places they tell how "breakage" is to be paid, casino or player. (ie: If you take $4 free odds on a 6/5 how do they pay $4.80? Does the casino eat the $.20 or does the player eat the $.80?)

But I see no reason to post them. As a player you are supposed to bet correctly. The dealer and boxman are supposed to check the bets. You are free to ask if you are not sure. Casinos give lessons. Dealers at dead tables in off hours will be more than happy to explain in detail. If you lost I am willing to guess that the entire bet would have been swept while the winner would be noticed as being over-the-limit. But the dealer is supposed to protect the casino, not the player. Caveat Emptor.

New players will always make mistakes, dealers should be as helpful as possible. But you cannot be upset if a dealer noticed after-the-fact. Craps dealers are watching 8 players and 95+ different possible bets, and making payouts while new bets are placed.

Casino Niagara and Fallsview returns everything over their max odds. If you win, they pay you max odds and return the rest to you. If you lose, they take the max odds and return it to you.

I asked a former table Vegas game manager about both questions. Regarding over-betting the odds multiple in craps, he said most properties would pay the excess at place bet odds. Regarding betting over the table maximum, he said the excess wouldn't count, and would be refunded, win or lose.

Quote: Wizard

I asked a former table Vegas game manager about both questions. Regarding over-betting the odds multiple in craps, he said most properties would pay the excess at place bet odds. Regarding betting over the table maximum, he said the excess wouldn't count, and would be refunded, win or lose.

I remember being at one crap table where a person was betting $25 on the pass line, and taking $100 odds. However, the casino only allowed 2X odds. So he won his first pass line bet; the point was 9, and they paid him 3:2 on the first $50, then shoved aside the other $50 of his odds, telling him he could only bet double odds. He was a bit surprised that they didn't pay him at all (rather than pay him 7:5 on the other $50, as you mentioned is usually done), but he shrugged and put the chips back in his rack. About two hands later, he overbet his odds again: $25 pass line with $100 odds. I was about to say something to the guy, but the shooter immediately sevened out, and THE DEALER TOOK HIS ENTIRE BET. I gaped in astonishment; the player didn't say anything, apparently because he didn't really realize what had happened. I started to say something, when the boxman shot me a look that said in unmistakable terms that if I opened my mouth, I would be served as one of the dishes in tomorrow's lunch buffet. So I quickly left.

I'd say this was a pretty good way for the casino to make some extra bucks now and then: bet too much, and the extra amount only counts when you LOSE!

I won't say which casino this was, except that it was in a city whose name begins with the letters "L" and "V", and the casino has the same name as a major brand of orange juice.

Quote: mkl654321

I'd say this was a pretty good way for the casino to make some extra bucks now and then: bet too much, and the extra amount only counts when you LOSE!

I seriously think this is a way for the house to catch up because they don't make enough on craps. Add a few drinks here and there and try to be pushy by speeding up the game, and this adds up for the house. Even if they don't take the entire bet if you lose, they still make more money by making the excess bet as a pass line bet or place bet in the long run. I've overbet once and lost with the odds and the dealer returned the excess bet to me.

A True Story:

I was shooting craps years ago at Turning Stone Casino near Syracuse, NY

The Table Maximum bet was $1,000

I asked the Box if I could bet $2,500 on the pass line.

He said "Sure. Go ahead"

I looked to the stick and to the dealer on my end of the table,

all of whom indicated that I had permission to do so.

I rolled an immediate natural 7.

Instantly, I was told that I could only collect $1,000,

as those who accepted my wager were unauthorized to do so.

Almost needless to say, had I lost the bet, my chips would have been scooped up without a peep.

Being a "Tribal Enterprise", there was no recourse to be had.

Almost needless to say, I never played there again.

That was an old thread to bump.

I feel like your bet was accepted and should have been paid. As I understand it (and I don't spend a lot of time at craps tables so I could be wrong), I think that a boxperson is just a more experienced dealer and not actually a supervisor, and betting over the table limit is something that I've always had to get a supervisor's okay on. So I wonder whether the Box would have been in a position to accept such a bet.