6/5 BLACKJACK
I don't know what the HE is for others games, but I'd think you're right. However, carnival games (UTH, MS, PGP, etc.) have fewer hands per hour.
If/when 3:2 disappears everywhere else, we'll be playing in my basement/bunker. Invitation only, you should sign up for the waiting list now. Free booze already. Working on the H&B thing, I've lost my best contacts.....;-)Quote: RSBasic Strategy is the same. If dealer has an Ace showing, you could attempt to get even money (even though even money is not allowed in 6:5 BJ, apparently).
I don't know what the HE is for others games, but I'd think you're right. However, carnival games (UTH, MS, PGP, etc.) have fewer hands per hour.
Quote: DeMangoHere is a question about 6/5 BJ. Is it countable with being dealt to the bottom and reshuffled after running out of cards?
Yes, but the 6:5 variation comes with a -1.39% EV over 3:2. So why play it?
| 2 Decks | 2/3 | 200 to 1 | $1.28 |
| 1 Deck | 5/6 | 54 to 1 | $3.71 |
| 1/2 Deck | 11/12 | 33 to 1 | $6.18 |
fwiw It looks as if the HE = 1.83% and the player's advantage flips with a count of about 4.3, but I only ran 1m hands for each sim.
Quote: drtomoh1Am I incorrect in stating that even a 6/5 game will have a lower house edge than almost everything else?
You can use the Wizard's Blackjack Calculator to find the HE for various rules.
Calculator
Quote: RScarnival games (UTH, MS, PGP, etc.) have fewer hands per hour.
the variance flat-betting is very low as well in BJ- you can expect to experience mostly losing sessions - ever notice all the long faces with people playing BJ? with 6:5 it's gotta be even worse
Quote: drtomoh1I know better than to play a 6/5 blackjack game. But the time may come where there will be no more 3/2. Am I incorrect in stating that even a 6/5 game will have a lower house edge than almost everything else? (I realize that baccarat, craps, an some video poker would be better).
Based on the linked calculator, using 8 decks and H17, I get that the house edge is about 2.00%. You can do your own comparisons, but that is not a terrible percentage. One consideration is how many hands per hour you might get as compared to other games.
Quote:And does basic strategy change in any way for a 6/5 game
No, unless you can get them to offer you "even money" insurance for your blackjack, in which case you should take it instead of declining it.
Quote: MrGoldenSun. That appears to be a hasty statement perhaps. Just considering 2-3 card Basic Strategy, non-composition dependent. Is that really correct? The only change from 3:2 BS is the taking of even money ( which they don't seem to offer on 6:5 from what I've heard ) ? I would appreciate a second opinion, not that I doubt MrGoldenSun (actually I am a big fan). It just makes my head spin to consider 6:5, which I am positive I have never played when sober ;-)Quote: drtomoh1I know better than to play a 6/5 blackjack game. But the time may come.
Quote:And does basic strategy change in any way for a 6/5 game
No, unless you can get them to offer you "even money" insurance for your blackjack, in which case you should take it instead of declining it.
<edit> When posting on a SAT Phone from the jungle of Borneo, the 'preview' you see for your post may look absolutely NOTHING (sorry WoN) like the post that others see on their screens. Fair Warning ;-)Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Quote: odiousgambitthe variance flat-betting is very low as well in BJ- you can expect to experience mostly losing sessions - ever notice all the long faces with people playing BJ? with 6:5 it's gotta be even worse
I really don't think 6:5 is all that much worse for the average ploppy or someone who gambles every once in a while (few times a year). They're probably already playing with a 3% disadvantage (I'm guessing), adding an extra 1.5% or whatever is going to make them lose $150 an hour instead of $100 an hour, relatively. Not to mention, I don't think anyone, even an AP, would be able to tell the difference between 3:2 and 6:5 if they were playing it blindly or in a vacuum -- ie: they wouldn't look at results from a 3:2 session and results from a 6:5 session and say "Oh this one is obviously the 6:5 game." The variance in blackjack, IMO, although small especially compared to other games like UTH/craps/MS/etc. outweighs the added -EV for 6:5, at least for those who do not play properly and do not log many hours.
Yes, if you're a local and play several hours a week, or even every day, and play with BS, then I absolutely think you'd notice the difference between 3:2 and 6:5.
I think that is the core of the problem of 6:5 spreading -- people do not notice (and pretty much cannot notice) they are losing more than they should be (should be, as in playing a 3:2 game).
I think that effect(affect?) or phenomenon is even worse in VP. Play a game like 9/5 DDB vs 9/6 DDB or even 10/6 DDB, the results are not going to jump out at you, showing how awful one game is compared to another.
But, I'm not saying APs, frequent gamblers, or casual gamblers/ploppies should not care about the paytable or house edge they're playing against....but for those who gamble every now and then, they aren't going to be able to realize they're losing more in the long run.
That was a long and eloquent, well worded, response. But I think maybe you did not answer the question. Just because a question is asked, No one should feel obligated to answer here. Ignore is frequently the optimal response.Quote: RSI really don't think 6:5 is all that much worse for the average ploppy or someone who gambles every once in a while (few times a year). They're probably already playing with a 3% disadvantage (I'm guessing), adding an extra 1.5% or whatever is going to make them lose $150 an hour instead of $100 an hour, relatively. Not to mention, I don't think anyone, even an AP, would be able to tell the difference between 3:2 and 6:5 if they were playing it blindly or in a vacuum -- ie: they wouldn't look at results from a 3:2 session and results from a 6:5 session and say "Oh this one is obviously the 6:5 game." The variance in blackjack, IMO, although small especially compared to other games like UTH/craps/MS/etc. outweighs the added -EV for 6:5, at least for those who do not play properly and do not log many hours.
Yes, if you're a local and play several hours a week, or even every day, and play with BS, then I absolutely think you'd notice the difference between 3:2 and 6:5.
I think that is the core of the problem of 6:5 spreading -- people do not notice (and pretty much cannot notice) they are losing more than they should be (should be, as in playing a 3:2 game).
I think that effect(affect?) or phenomenon is even worse in VP. Play a game like 9/5 DDB vs 9/6 DDB or even 10/6 DDB, the results are not going to jump out at you, showing how awful one game is compared to another.
But, I'm not saying APs, frequent gamblers, or casual gamblers/ploppies should not care about the paytable or house edge they're playing against....but for those who gamble every now and then, they aren't going to be able to realize they're losing more in the long run.
However, I think the question was, were there any changes to Basic Strategy above and beyond 'take even money' when in a drrunken stupor you find yourself at a 6:5 table vs a 3:2?
Of course my memory of events and participants is always subject to question, though they are for sale on the open market to anyone who is grasping at 'last straws'. I have successfully confused the collective minds of more than one jury. Nuf said.
I know I am stating the obvious, but some beginners and casual players might appreciate the simplicity of the difference in 6:5 vs 3:2 blackjack.
Or you could look at it this way: With a $10 flat bet at blackjack and a -1.39% EV you are losing 13.9 cents per play on average. So if you're playing 100 hands per hour you're losing $13.90 an hour by playing at a 6:5 game vs a 3:2 game.
