casino dealer cash reconciliation

First time poster and sorry if this has been brought up before. I'm from Sydney, Australia. At the casino here when you play black jack you place your money on the table and the dealer gives you chips. I'm aware that other casinos often do not have chip exchange at the playing table. My question is if the money which is given to the dealer over the course of a shift does not match the amount of chips handed out, does the dealer have the difference come out of their pay? Sounds silly but I'm wondering what if any incentive there is for a dealer to short change you.

I recently had a situation where I put down some money of two denominations where the notes are different colours. I had checked to see how much I had before I left home. I checked again before I sat down. I put the notes down in a pile and immediately began small talk to the person next to me. When I looked back the dealer was counting chips out for me. The chips looked less than expected so I counted and disputed it. When they showed me the camera footage the blurry images appear to confirm the dealer was right. Though the footage only shows him counting out the notes and not what I put down on the table. Austalian bank notes are plastic and can stick together. This could be the one explanation. But the paranoid side of me wonders whether the dealer could have short changed me to make up for a previous overpayment to someone else? That's also assuming he would have a strong incentive to do so to avoid deduction in pay or some other punishment.

First of all dealers don't make enough money to take anything from them. You can fire them, jail them or perhaps even take them out into the desert .... but they only get minimum wage and a share of the tips for that shift.

All cash is separated out for a camera and a Floor Person to see, the notes can overlap but the amount is determined by the dealer and confirmed by the Floor. The bills get put into a lock box using a clear plastic paddle and the lock box is collected at a pre-determined time. Announcements of amount must be made aloud and confirmed aloud, chip count is by dealer but confirmed by Floor Person and dealer moves chips to the center of his table and then to the player's position. All chip and all bill placement is in pre-designated areas.

At a blackjack table there will only be one dealer but at a craps table there will be two dealers, a boxman and a stickman... all checking the color and height of chip stacks. Are mistakes made? Sure. Usually they are promptly caught and a short stack will be corrected for the camera. Usually though the accuracy level is very high no matter how jammed up a game might be.

Thanks for your quick response. It must have been that two notes were stuck together. I guess I should be most angry at myself as I should have paid attention when the notes were being counted as I would have been able to pull him up straight away and said "hey, those two fifty dollar notes must be stuck together." There's no doubt what so ever I was short changed, as I said I counted on more than one occasion. I was just frustrated the camera wouldn't and didn't pick that up so using that "fail safe" obviously didn't work for me. By the time the money was put away I really lost any chance of correcting any mistake. I guess I know better now. It wouldn't be the first occasion that notes have been stuck together due to maybe a bit of moisture or some other sticky substance. The only thing was that in re counting the notes just before sitting down I would have separated the notes to have been able to count them correctly. Ultimately still frustrated that in the end there was no resolution to the issue.

One other thing I might point out is there's no tipping at the casino here in Sydney. Certainly not in the general playing area anyway. Not sure how about high roller areas. So they are paid more than minimum wage. I know that in the past I've been told by a friend who used to be a bank teller that they're responsible for ensuring the money in the drawer at the end of the day was correct or discrepancies would be taken out of their pay. And wondered whether there would be, similar to a bank teller an incentive to correct overpayments during a day with short payments. It's a bit of a stretch maybe but the likelihood of all this being my error all along is in my mind, zero. Firstly I can count and secondly I counted it twice. I could have short counted it but how could I have over counted it.

Quote: Fish

One other thing I might point out is there's no tipping at the casino here in Sydney..

I just found this out yesterday here in Korea, when a guy finished playing and he gave the dealer the equiv. of US $10 tip and apologized for the low tip saying he still lost for the day. The dealer said he just came back from working a year as a dealer in Australia where no tipping was allowed and said his tip was greatly appreciated. Another player asked him if he thought it was better to have a higher hourly wage with no tips, or a smal hourly wage with tips, and he said he most definitely prefers the smaller hourly wage with tips.

Quote: Fish

It must have been that two notes were stuck together. I guess I should be most angry at myself as I should have paid attention when the notes were being counted as I would have been able to pull him up straight away and said "hey, those two fifty dollar notes must be stuck together." There's no doubt what so ever I was short changed, as I said I counted on more than one occasion.

Yes, you should definitely be paying attention when changing cash for chips. Many people buy in at very regular amounts, so if someone buys in for $180, where $200 would be more normal/likely, I'll say it back to them before I even start cutting out cheques.

Sometimes they don't respond for whatever reason and I just proceed with the transaction as best as I can. They get another chance to say something when I call out, "Changing 180," to the floor supervisor.

As for things having to balance out, that would be incredibly difficult to reconcile 100%. Many smallish buy-ins go completely unacknowledged by the floor supervisor even when they are called out. This can be for any number of reasons, like they are busy adjudicating a dispute at another table, or just can't hear it called out because it's a busy night and it's loud.

Quote: Fish

I was just frustrated the camera wouldn't and didn't pick that up so using that "fail safe" obviously didn't work for me.

You're asking quite a lot from a camera. More than likely from the camera view everything when just fine.

Quote: Fish

By the time the money was put away I really lost any chance of correcting any mistake.

Pretty much. Even if somehow you could convince them to open the cash box it would be impossible to know what was yours and what was there previously, unless it was the first buy-in since the table opened.

Quote: Fish

I guess I know better now.

Let's hope so.

Quote: Fish

Ultimately still frustrated that in the end there was no resolution to the issue.

You have to understand that from the house's point of view you had an opportunity to say something before "it was too late," and that there are plenty of people that we refer to as "shot takers" that try to pull scams like saying they gave more than they did and were short changed. While no one is saying that's what you were doing, the way it went down is indistinguishable from the behavior of a shot taker so they aren't going to cut you much/any slack.

Quote: Fish

When they showed me the camera footage the blurry images appear to confirm the dealer was right. Though the footage only shows him counting out the notes and not what I put down on the table.

They showed you the footage? How common is it for a casino to show a patron surveillance footage?

Quote: mrclean

They showed you the footage? How common is it for a casino to show a patron surveillance footage?

Very uncommon here in the states....they review the film and some "suit" tells you what it shows. Of course here we position the bills in such a manner as to indicate value to the camera.

I recall having long ago bought in to a craps game at an unusual amount of money and as the chips were going out some crew member, the stickman probably or perhaps the dealer at the other end, called out "is that a short stack"? It was indeed what would normally have been a short stack for a normal buy in, but I was buying in for 80 rather than 100. Its actually good when someone speaks up like that even if it is in error.

Quote: mrclean

They showed you the footage? How common is it for a casino to show a patron surveillance footage?

In the states? Pretty much unheard of.