Simple Idea for Shopping

Two phenom that would be a killer: the people who start "fixing' problems on their own, and the people who make sure no one 'gets a better deal'.

*an item is not in the system. The otherwise honest customer picks a similar item in his bag and punches in two instead of the one he bought, to make up for the item not in system. However, the price unknown, he gives himself the benefit of the doubt in the way he chooses the fix. Perfectly prepared to defend his actions.

*an item is not showing the sale price. Similar self-benefitting fix. Perfectly prepared to defend his actions.

*some folks are seen to clearly be pushing the envelope on this. The fix gets very beneficial! Why should someone else get a better deal? Prepared to defend his actions, wondering a bit how it will be received, but figuring some worse offender gets busted first.

*Absent some people getting busted, the originally honest shoppers - many of them - abuse the system too much for it to continue.

*Never mind the percentage who intended to cheat from the get-go.

Quote: Doc

May not be the same thing, but I recall a TV ad much like that.

Definitely not the same thing. RFID dind't exist back then. But the gist si the same.

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Was the one you saw the one where some kid tries to shoplift a bunch of stuff hidden in his clothes but the system hands him a bill/receipt on his way out?

No. But, you know, I do see in that description the backers of RFID are promising much more than they can deliver. I can see you can track where any number of items are at any time. I fail to see how you'd determine they were stolen or by whom.

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The cost of the tags and the scanner range are still significant impediments to applying that technology in the grocery store.

It's coming. I recall when there were complaints on the cost of UPC tags in the 70s. For that matter, I recall complaining about having to generate UPC numbers when our big customer dumped that task on us early in the last decade.

I don't know about legal and technical problems implementing it, by I would really love this idea as a consumer.

Quote: Nareed

1) I don't have a "smart" phone nor am I likely to get one any time soon. So it doesn't apply to me.

But most people do, meaning, the lines will be shorter for you too.
Besides, a few years from now (ok, maybe a decade), there will be no phones sold that are not smart anyway.

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2) If it did, though, i can see several problems. For one, if you change your mind and want to return an item, I imagine a pretty big deal, possibly negating any advantages.

Why? You just click on a big red "X" on your phone screen, scan the item and put it back on the shelf.

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Also if no running total is kept, you may find yourself overspending easily.

Why would it be not kept?

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3) Technical glitches are inevitable, and they will be a big problem.

I don't see any reason why there should be any more technical glitches than there are already with cash registers and price scanners.

This is not the wave of the future... for a number of reasons.

First, Wal-Mart would have to latch onto such a program and roll it out nationally. As the nation's largest retailer and grocer, they basically control what technology stays and what goes. I'm telling you right now that they will be very slow to adapt this technology, as many customers would abuse the system. Their markups simply are not high enought to deflate the costs associated with shrink and create the technology. Then you still have (in your example) the "random checks" that in the South would most certainly be discriminatory...

This leaves other grocers who want to embrace the technology (i.e. Kroger) with some stores that are able to implement the system while others are in the dark age. You see that with self scans; some stores are fully-equipped, others have very few. Minimal implementation means the idea never catches on....

Then you have the "big box retailers." These places nearly always (surprisingly) pride themselves on their "service." This kind of technology limits the amount of service you provide, or ironically, increases it as people learn the technology. Widespread roll-out still is an issue too...

I see our smartphones becoming tools for paying bills and eventually U-scans will be equipped to provide a service similar to what you are talking about. You will still have to "check out" but you may not need to scan everything at the register or require somebody to do that for you. As with all automation, this will reduce the number of people needed, and staff requirements will be lower.

As I typed that, I realized another problem; store inventory levels. With the system described by the OP, a smartphone could potentially have access to store inventory reports, which in turn could be subject to hacking. A live upload would be required to prevent this from happening. That's where the U-scan step would be imperative; the register procedure wouldn't give you that access, and instead, remains a function of Point of Sale.

If everything is RFID read, why would you need to do random searches? Most people will not scan their own items, especially seniors. Others will make many mistakes. In my opinion, you'd have to have a large RFID reader read everything at checkout and compare it with the weight of the cart to ensure that everything is captured. As you walk through, it would also scan you for items.

Store staffing is pretty much at a minimum anyway. What will all of the checkout folks do for a living then?

I agree, that Wal Mart is unlikely to implement this any time soon. But I disagree that it gets to decide what stays and what does not.

I am thinking "trendy" places, like Whole Foods, Trader Joe's etc. could very well get on with the idea. Their traditional customers are less likely to cheat, than those at Wal Mart, and the assortment of their stock is much more narrow, making for an simpler, more manageable application.

I heard an interesting commercial for Wal-Mart today. Or it might have been K-Mart.

They've got an iPhone app that allows you to scan as you shop. The blurb about it in the ad made it sound like it can help you verify prices and run a totol to keep within a budget.

As I was listening, I was thinking of this thread, as well as the fact that this is the first step towards the goal being talked about in this thread.

Nightline's broadcast tonight talked about people at the self-scan lanes at the grocery store trying to be sneaky and move items past the scanner and into the bag without it being scanned. They also talked about the security measures to combat this scam. Because of the date, they focused on people trying to steal their holiday turkeys in this manner, which has apparently become a substantial problem.

Quote: boymimbo

If everything is RFID read, why would you need to do random searches? Most people will not scan their own items, especially seniors. Others will make many mistakes. In my opinion, you'd have to have a large RFID reader read everything at checkout and compare it with the weight of the cart to ensure that everything is captured. As you walk through, it would also scan you for items.

Sounds like my dad. He basically refuses to use the self-scan, will wait in a line instead. Neither of my parents have ever used an ATM. He has given reasoning fron "teller needs a job" to "I am not putting my paycheck into 'a machine.'" Every now and then he will run out of WAM on a holiday weekend, I no longer even suggest he get a card.

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Store staffing is pretty much at a minimum anyway. What will all of the checkout folks do for a living then?

This is his logic on it all at the store. My answer is "not my problem." It is called "creative destruction" and they will find other jobs.

Theft would definitely be a problem, and opportunists will see a lack of staffing as a chance to shoplift. The UScans rely on weight. When you scan a product, the weight of the product is in their database. The giant thing you put your bags on is on a scale so the scale looks for the change in weight before you can scan your next item. This is fair.

I don't see why an RFID reader simply couldn't be installed at checkout. You roll your cart in, it scans all the items, and compares the weight of what it found (the cart or basket would also be read) to the total weight and flag things if there's a difference. You walk through and it checks you for any items, and off you go.

The only issue with this are items that are based on weight (fresh vegetables and fruit, bulk goods). For these, you would install scales in those areas and you would put these items on a scale and it would spit out an rfid tag with the weight and the item id. This would indeed slow things down substantially though.

I'd subscribe to this without any problem.