Capital of the Netherlands

Quote: Wizard

Your answer confuses me. I like the Vegas comparison. Suppose there was a bet on what city The Mirage is in? I think most people would say Las Vegas. However, it is actually in an unincorporated part of Clark County seldom referred to as Paradise. If you were on the Strip you would not reach the city limits of Las Vegas until you were north of Sahara Blvd. You seem to be arguing that "Las Vegas" would still be an acceptable answer to where The Mirage is, because that is where all the big casinos are everybody associates with Las Vegas.

Mike, one can argue by U.S. Postal Service addressing conventions, the unincorprorated town of Paradise is declared as "Las Vegas" Proper. THEIR Zip code computer fills in LAS VEGAS for Paradise and Paradise Valley Zip Codes (East Paradise, etc.) There is also Whitney (Far East Tropicana), and Winchester (a few Square blocks by the golf course on Desert Inn, aka, "D.I.")
In New York [City, now...], real estate agents create conventions for re-naming NY Neighborhoods: Blomingdale is now Morningside Heights, parts of the Bowery is now Soho, No-Lo, and DUMBO ("Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass.") I'm personally waiting for a neighborhood to be re-named "High-Low-Yo." ("Yes - I live in High-Low-Yo. Finding a reasonably priced condo is a real crap shoot here...") I heard a proposal to call a fancy Section of Washington Heights, further up on the hill, "Washington Heights Heights." (Google "Cabrini Blvd,"in New York in Washington Heights.) Gaa..
I saw an episode of "Law & Order" where the judge restricted an immigrant criminal resident to stay within "New York County," which consists only of the Borough of Manhattan - in order to set in up and bust him in Brooklyn, within New York City, but not in County or "Borough" terms, as Brooklyn is "King's County" or "The Borough of Brooklyn of New York City. It gets that nutty. Call it Prop Bet Paradise County.

What where the params going in, or are they revealed after the fact?....

Quote: Wizard

Your answer confuses me. I like the Vegas comparison. Suppose there was a bet on what city The Mirage is in? I think most people would say Las Vegas. However, it is actually in an unincorporated part of Clark County seldom referred to as Paradise. If you were on the Strip you would not reach the city limits of Las Vegas until you were north of Sahara Blvd.. You seem to be arguing that "Las Vegas" would still be an acceptable answer to where The Mirage is, because that is where all the big casinos are everybody associates with Las Vegas.

By that logic, in the Hague you would see all the buildings and people associated with the seat of government. Couldn't you logically assume then that you were in the capital of the Netherlands? So, to conclude, I like the Vegas comparison, but I think it argues that The Hague should be the answer to the Netherlands question.

Your confusion is likely my fault. I don't know specifically where the city of Las Vegas ends, nor which casino's are located in relation to the border. I only have a vague understanding that a lot (?) of what people consider Vegas is technically located in neighboring towns. The forum, the locals, and frequent visitors probably know, but for the great majority of people who know OF Vegas, they would likely think that "Vegas" is where the casinos are, from up to the Strat all the way down to The M. To be honest, if not for this forum, it's penchant for trivia, and it's fact-driven participants, I wouldn't have known about the Vegas issue at all. When I stayed at The M, I thought I was in Vegas and told everyone I was in Vegas, not realizing that technically, I wasn't even really close.

So my Vegas comparison wasn't totally apples to apples, it was just something close I could use as an example. When at The M, "I was in Vegas" (technically untrue). When the Chancellor (or whatever) of Amsterdam is questioned as to where he works, he answers "the capital" (also technically untrue, as his office would be in The Hague). Both are close enough for everyday conversation, but if asking for a Wiz-quality answer (100% acurate and technically true) Vegas is exactly where it is and only where it is, and the capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam. Saying The Hague is the capitol or The Mirage is in Vegas is an accepted false answer, no one's going to bust your chops over it. But in a game or contest of absolute truth, both answers are inarguably wrong.

Hope my attempt to clarify my position didn't muddy it even more ;)

Quote: Face

..., but if asking for a Wiz-quality answer (100% acurate and technically true) Vegas is exactly where it is and only where it is, and the capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam.

Sometimes a 100% accurate and true answer is not what you're looking for. On Jeopardy I think if they showed a picture of the Strip and asked for the city "Las Vegas" would be an accepted answer. For most purposes, including general public perception, it is. Strict municipal boundaries do not necessarily define the essence of a city.

Likewise, I think once could argue that Amsterdam is the capital of the Netherlands in name only, but for all practical purposes it is in the Hague. That fact, I think, lends support that the Hague not be considered an incorrect answer.

If the Dutch call Amsterdam their capital city, I'll go along with them, whatever we as non-Dutch may think it should be...

Quote: Wizard

Sometimes a 100% accurate and true answer is not what you're looking for. On Jeopardy I think if they showed a picture of the Strip and asked for the city "Las Vegas" would be an accepted answer. For most purposes, including general public perception, it is. Strict municipal boundaries do not necessarily define the essence of a city.

Likewise, I think once could argue that Amsterdam is the capital of the Netherlands in name only, but for all practical purposes it is in the Hague. That fact, I think, lends support that the Hague not be considered an incorrect answer.

Interesting. I agree with your entire first paragraph. I guess it comes down to, again, the nature of your bet (Maybe you should stop this little habit? ;) j/k of course). Jeopardy would probably accept the answer, and I'd not think twice. The public perception is exactly that, an accepted perception. And your munincipal boundaries comment is spot on. But, if we're talking specifics, none of your first paragraph matters, IMO. The city of LV's boundaries are clearly defined, that's simply where it is. Perception, essence, acceptance, don't mean a thing.

As for the second paragraph, you absolutely could argue, and might even win, depending on a number of variables. However, I believe that speaking strictly in tems of fact, the answer of The Hague is wrong (as far as I can tell). Amsterdam is the capital, says so in all that I read. So what makes a city a capital? Are there any requirements? How might you argue that The Hague is the right answer, and if you would argue that, would you also argue that The Mirage, The M, etc, are in Las Vegas? Or could you argue one while upholding the other? I've stated my beliefs on the subject and obviously believe they're correct. But I remain open minded...think you could change my mind?

Quote: Face

So what makes a city a capital? Are there any requirements? How might you argue that The Hague is the right answer, and if you would argue that, would you also argue that The Mirage, The M, etc, are in Las Vegas?

The seat of government of the Netherlands is in the Hague. A country can say its capital is wherever it wants, but if all the highest government buildings are in one place than at least that is where the functional capital is. Amsterdam is the capital in name only. It would be like the US Constitution saying the US capital was in New York City. To me, a true capital is where the highest levels of government convene.

Maybe the Vegas comparison was a bad one. I guess I'm trying to advocate truth in words. Sometimes words should be changed to reflect reality, such as the capital of the Netherlands should be The Hague. However, we shouldn't get hung up on technicalities. I think it is fine to say, for informal purposes, that The Mirage is in Las Vegas. Much like it is fine to identify the Jets as the New York Jets, even though they play in New Jersey. Same goes for the Giants.

I hope that wasn't too confusing.

The Jets play in Winnipeg :)

I have seen maps that acknowledge both cities as capitals, and I have seen maps that show Amsterdam as the only capital. I have never seen a map that showed The Hague as a capital and not Amsterdam.

That may be a weak argument. It is similar to arguing who is more important, The Prime Minister of the UK, or the Queen. The Queen can't make laws, hire or fire people. But she technically can dismiss parliament and call for elections, although by custom she normally waits until requested by the prime minister. But parliament ultimately can say who the monarch is or determine the Act of Succession (even though they haven't changed the law since 1701).

As for Las Vegas, the Post office has long recognized that place names should not be restricted by municipal boundaries. Habit and custom usually extends the place name over a bigger area than the municipal boundary.

In the East, some neighborhoods maintain separate names long after they cease to exist as an administrative body. Manayunk was a place in Philadelphia county that adopted their name in 1824 based on an old Indian name. In 1840 , Manayunk was incorporated as a borough, but in 1854 the county of Philadelphia and the city of Philadelphia were merged and Manayunk become a neighborhood. But people still put Manayunk on their postal addresses.

Quote: pacomartin

In the East, some neighborhoods maintain separate names long after they cease to exist as an administrative body. Manayunk was a place in Philadelphia county that adopted their name in 1824 based on an old Indian name. In 1840 , Manayunk was incorporated as a borough, but in 1854 the county of Philadelphia and the city of Philadelphia were merged and Manayunk become a neighborhood. But people still put Manayunk on their postal addresses.

When I lived in the Baltimore area through the 90s I was always confused as to what to say when asked where specifically in Baltimore I lived. As with many cities, Baltimore has lots of small surrounding cities like Woodlawn, Catonsville, Pikesville, Townson, etc.. In my case I lived on Riding Crop Way, which was in a seemingly nameless area between Ellicot City, Randalstown, Woodlawn, and Catonsville. So I never really knew what to call it. If asked where I lived by a local I would say Catonsville or "near Catonsville." Those preprinted address labels charities sometimes send you, while asking for a donation, would indicate my city as Gwynn Oak, but nobody ever referred to Gwynn Oak as a city or municipality. There was a Gwynn Oak Avenue, which was the only context I heard Gwynn Oak come up. It just goes to show that, indeed, place names can get confusing back east. I bothered lots of people back there with this issue. To those who insisted I did live in Gwynn Oak I asked to see a map with the specific boundaries, and nobody could produce one.

Quote: Wizard

When I lived in the Baltimore area through the 90s I was always confused as to what to say when asked where specifically in Baltimore I lived.

I tell people I live in Mexico City. This is true, even though I haven't lived within the city limits of Mex City since 1970 :) My current place is about 7 miles away from said limits, my previous house was about a half mile away. This doesn't matter in the least, as places as far away as 30 miles from the city limits are considered to be Mexico City.

In theory Mex City is made up of the Federal District only, known as Mexico, Distrito Federal. There's no place in the map officially known as Mexico City, BTW. In practice, the city, or metro area, includes several municipalities located in Mexico state, whether they border the District proper or not. Previously I lived in Naucalpan, which borders the district, now I live in Huixquilucan, which doesn't.

My rule of thumb is simple: if the area code matches that of Mexico City, you are in Mexico City.