The Shackleford Bucket List

In the "pennies on a railroad track" thread Mike said riding a freight train was on his bucket list. I have a little experience in this area, although it's been 18 years since I hopped a train. Mike, the train in your video in the "pennies on a railroad track" thread is called a Union Pacific "hot shot." It's so called because it has the right of way on the track between southern California and Chicago. These trains are hauling goods made in China, Korea, Japan, etc. and are on their way to the Chicago yard for redistribution to other parts back east. The same type of trains roll east out of San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. Another slang term for these type of trains is "stacker" or "stackers," so called because they stack the containers one on top of the other. The railroad cars these containers are in are called "48's" simply because they are 48 feet long.

The hot shots make the run from Los Angeles to Chicago in about 54 hours. They run up through Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Ogden, then turn east and run through southern Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa and into Illinois.

I used to jump the hot shots in Vegas up to Salt Lake City and other points. These trains made regular crew changes where one set of engineer and brakeman would depart the train and another set would get on. The crew change only takes about five minutes. The crew change for the northbound trains in Las Vegas was where the tracks cross Charleston Blvd. The nose of the train stopped just across Charleston. The rest of the train stretched south and had traffic blocked so the crew change had to be quick.

So to jump these trains a freight tramp had to be quick. You have to find one of them "48's" with a steel bottomed floor and jump in. Not all of them have a solid bottom floor. And you have to jump into the rear of the car, behind the containers, so you have a wind block.

Whatever you do don't ever jump into an empty boxcar. It's not just a bad ride, it's horrible. Being empty they bounce and roll. I laugh when I see movies where they are in a boxcar and carrying on a conversation. It is so loud in an empty boxcar that there is no way you can carry on a conversation with anyone. As a matter of fact it is so loud you could scream at the top of your lungs and not hear yourself.

If you make a jump don't go alone. I always carry a sleeping bag and a day pack. And I always jumped at night or just before sunrise for camouflage. Your choices for jumping off the train are Milford, Utah and Salt Lake City. At SLC the trains slow to a crawl right at the old Union Station right off downtown and it's easy to jump off. Don't worry to much about the railroad police. Just stay out of sight as much as possible. If you get busted, as a first time offender you can expect a warning ticket and getting kicked off the train. You don't have to worry about getting busted out in the middle of nowhere. The railroad police are only around the yards.

Quote: mickeycrimm

to jump these trains

wow, that is an impressive amount of knowledge for this day and age. In contrast to the old days, one gets the feeling train hopping is hardly done at all.

Impressive stuff from the veteran. That item is not on my bucket list.

Quote: mickeycrimm

In the "pennies on a railroad track" thread Mike said riding a freight train was on his bucket list. I have a little experience in this area, although it's been 18 years since I hopped a train. Mike, the train in your video in the "pennies on a railroad track" thread is called a Union Pacific "hot shot." It's so called because it has the right of way on the track between southern California and Chicago. These trains are hauling goods made in China, Korea, Japan, etc. and are on their way to the Chicago yard for redistribution to other parts back east. The same type of trains roll east out of San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. Another slang term for these type of trains is "stacker" or "stackers," so called because they stack the containers one on top of the other. The railroad cars these containers are in are called "48's" simply because they are 48 feet long.

The hot shots make the run from Los Angeles to Chicago in about 54 hours. They run up through Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Ogden, then turn east and run through southern Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa and into Illinois.

I used to jump the hot shots in Vegas up to Salt Lake City and other points. These trains made regular crew changes where one set of engineer and brakeman would depart the train and another set would get on. The crew change only takes about five minutes. The crew change for the northbound trains in Las Vegas was where the tracks cross Charleston Blvd. The nose of the train stopped just across Charleston. The rest of the train stretched south and had traffic blocked so the crew change had to be quick.

So to jump these trains a freight tramp had to be quick. You have to find one of them "48's" with a steel bottomed floor and jump in. Not all of them have a solid bottom floor. And you have to jump into the rear of the car, behind the containers, so you have a wind block.

Whatever you do don't ever jump into an empty boxcar. It's not just a bad ride, it's horrible. Being empty they bounce and roll. I laugh when I see movies where they are in a boxcar and carrying on a conversation. It is so loud in an empty boxcar that there is no way you can carry on a conversation with anyone. As a matter of fact it is so loud you could scream at the top of your lungs and not hear yourself.

If you make a jump don't go alone. I always carry a sleeping bag and a day pack. And I always jumped at night or just before sunrise for camouflage. Your choices for jumping off the train are Milford, Utah and Salt Lake City. At SLC the trains slow to a crawl right at the old Union Station right off downtown and it's easy to jump off. Don't worry to much about the railroad police. Just stay out of sight as much as possible. If you get busted, as a first time offender you can expect a warning ticket and getting kicked off the train. You don't have to worry about getting busted out in the middle of nowhere. The railroad police are only around the yards.

I want to hang with you, mickeycrimm. You are one interesting dude.

I've talked to some people who have ridden the rails for awhile, and they described a life of both comraderie and frequent violence.

While they were not very specific, I got the impression that they witnessed other tramps getting crippled or killed.

Whoa, that is a steep price to pay for what they perceive to be personal freedom.

My questions:

1) What percentage of these folks do you believe are mentally ill?

2) What is the point of riding the rails, i.e. is it to find seasonal work, to scratch an itch, or something else?

Cool info. Yeah, I've wanted to do it too. Never had the balls.

Interesting about the crew change. I thought it would be one free for the duration, taking shifts and utilizing the caboose during off time. Seems more cost effective than to stop and restart an entire train...

Quote: MrV

I've talked to some people who have ridden the rails for awhile, and they described a life of both comraderie and frequent violence. While they were not very specific, I got the impression that they witnessed other tramps getting crippled or killed. Whoa, that is a steep price to pay for what they perceive to be personal freedom.

My questions:

1) What percentage of these folks do you believe are mentally ill?

2) What is the point of riding the rails, i.e. is it to find seasonal work, to scratch an itch, or something else?

I really didn't see a lot of mental illness but a high percentage of trains riders are out and out criminals. There's a lot of booze and drugs involved. Basically, riding trains is a free way to get around and yes I did travel with the seasons. Watching the scenery go by is a wonderful experience. I worked day labor everywhere I went. But I got paid at the end of the day and if I didn't want to return the next day I didn't. You have no bills, no commitments, it's a lifestyle of total freedom. You are poor but free as hell. It gets in the blood. There is no way I would trade my lifestyle today for my old lifestyle. But in a strange way I miss it.

It can be dangerous and you have to be prepared to defend yourself. I always wore steel toed boots. If someone tried to get into my 48 they had to come up the ladder. When their head got above deck I was prepared to kick a field goal with my steel toed boot. And I did come close to having to kick a field goal once. It's a good policy to not meet anyone on the rails. In the towns is fine but not out in the middle of nowhere. You have to explain that to tramps that come walking up the tracks when you are stopped out in the middle of nowhere.

I'll try to find some links about what was going on when I was still riding.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Cool info. Yeah, I've wanted to do it too. Never had the balls. Interesting about the crew change. I thought it would be one free for the duration, taking shifts and utilizing the caboose during off time. Seems more cost effective than to stop and restart an entire train...

The cabooses have gone by the wayside. Guess what, those locomotives don't have running water on them. The Engineer and the Brakeman have to crap in plastic bags and deposit them in a dumpster when they depart the train. I'm not kidding.

Read the article below the picture. It's about as comprehensive of a report as I have read about what was going on on the rails in the 1990's.

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.S/s/silveria-robert.htm

Quote: mickeycrimm

The cabooses have gone by the wayside. Guess what, those locomotives don't have running water on them. The Engineer and the Brakeman have to crap in plastic bags and deposit them in a dumpster when they depart the train. I'm not kidding.

I'm not sure if you were were referring to a specific locomotives when you said "those locomotives," but some locomotives have toilets.

Quote: Dalex64

I'm not sure if you were were referring to a specific locomotives when you said "those locomotives," but some locomotives have toilets.

Maybe they do by now. I haven't ridden in 18 years. Sometimes instead of jumping into a 48 I would jump into the last locomotive. I never seen one with a toilet.

Quote: mickeycrimm

I laugh when I see movies where they are in a boxcar and carrying on a conversation. It is so loud in an empty boxcar that there is no way you can carry on a conversation with anyone. As a matter of fact it is so loud you could scream at the top of your lungs and not hear yourself.

Interesting. This makes perfect sense, though it's never really occurred to me.

Here's Robert DeNiro having a quiet conversation in a boxcar.

People still hop a freight and "Catching Out" areas are actually increasing.
The violence is a bit higher. FTRA tatoos are things to be very wary of.
Oddly enough, females do ride trains these days.

WATER is the most important thing to have, keep your mouth closed or you are likely to learn what "bite your tongue" really means. If you are already aboard a car when a train is making up, be wary of its being humped because that jolt will jar your bones and possibly knock you unconscious.

You can usualy visit a trackside jungle and get good info on where a Catching Out area is and what trains are making up for which directions. Don't ever ride a train containing automobiles, they are top priority for the Railroad Bulls.

Just as approaching a craps or blackjack table there are certain rules of ettiquette. Don't be visible, it insults others who are riding the same train and can bring the attention of the police down on everyone aboard. Practice running and jumping, if you are uncoordinated you can get sucked under and thats usually good for an amputation.

Trespass is really hard to prove. They have to prove sign posting where you got on. If you do get busted be sure to mention the holes in the fences the large number of people you followed, the RR employee who helped you, etc. ... this means the trespass charge will likely fail and you can force the DA to subpoena the employee and produce photos from some site miles and miles outside of the court's jurisdiction.

Box cars are indeed bad particularly if someone shuts the door but its a fun way to travel and often you won't get any cinders or dust that way. You may meet some nice girls but keep your distance.

>1) What percentage of these folks do you believe are mentally ill?
Far less than in the average jail. More than in the average detox center.

>2) What is the point of riding the rails, i.e. is it to find seasonal work, to scratch an itch, or something else?
Up until about 1910 or 1920, it was mainly Germans, Irish and Portugese who rode the rails in search of seasonal work.
After the depression it became more Spanish speaking.

Most crop pickers travel by bus or Mexican Limousine Service (old V8s with lots of space operated as taxis).

Scratch an itch? Some people want to "see the country" others are likely to "anarchists"... in urban areas they squat, if they travel they go by rail. Or they set sail in rickety boats.

My favorite train rider holds a USCG Captain's ticket, has done short handed yacht deliveries in all oceans. He has also testified before the US Congress on computer security matters.

It's a cool bucket list item, fun to do.

I don't have nearly the experience in this regard that MickeyCrimm does, but growing up near a steel mill and railroad tracks, we would often, "Train-hop," from town-to-town in the local area. I think the farthest I ever hopped a single train was about ten miles, so this, by no means, was a cross-country thing for me.

When we train-hopped, since the distance was so short, you basically looked for a slow-moving train and jumped up and grabbed the ladder (as high up as possible) and then pulled your legs up to the bottom rung. At the few railroad crossings between yourself and the destination town, you'd basically just look for police on the side of the train to which you were holding and then very carefully try to go across the middle and to the ladder on the other side if you saw cops.

It was pretty dangerous, so we didn't exactly make a habit of it. Besides that, your parents would always tell you stories of some kid who just got his legs ripped off, 'last week,' even though you failed to ever meet such a kid or hear about the story anywhere else. A broken leg or arm every now and then, sure, we knew kids who broke a leg or arm on the dismount, (you basically just jumped and hoped for the best, almost never a clean landing) but the only stories about kids getting their arms ripped off came from my parents.

It was fun, but again, we were smart enough to know we were rolling the dice on a broken leg or arm every time, even though the trains probably only went about twice as fast as you could take yourself on a bicycle, so we didn't do it often.

Quote: mickeycrimm

The cabooses have gone by the wayside.

Yep, gone. Used to be required. One guy named Fred does it all now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashing_rear-end_device

I remember when the Everett Knowles event happened.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Read the article below the picture. It's about as comprehensive of a report as I have read about what was going on on the rails in the 1990's.

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.S/s/silveria-robert.htm

Excellent.

Thanks!

Great report Mickey; thank you very much. After reading that and the replies, I'd say hopping a freight train has moved way down on my bucket list.

Quote: Wizard

Great report Mickey; thank you very much. After reading that and the replies, I'd say hopping a freight train has moved way down on my bucket list.

No kidding. Sounds like a last resort method of travel.

As a kid I only hopped a train a mile or so, from the stockyards to the trestle. We did some stupids things. Like get long strips of fabric from a firehose factory, And taking the grease packing out of railroad car wheels. Then we would make torches. No telling how many hot boxes we caused Dumb kids !

Quote: mickeycrimm

I laugh when I see movies where they are in a boxcar and carrying on a conversation. It is so loud in an empty boxcar that there is no way you can carry on a conversation with anyone. As a matter of fact it is so loud you could scream at the top of your lungs and not hear yourself.

What! They faked something in the movies! I oughta...

Trains and fishing..... what could be a better vacation. This is something I Hope to do one day soon >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6thnTYR3bw

When I was about 13 we used to hope the train to get from town to the beach. It was only about a mile and trains were few and far between so we usually just walked it along the tracks but if train came by in the right direction we would give it a try.

When I was younger than that and living in a different town one of favorite games was playing tag in the train yard. Rules were you couldn't touch the ground. Mixed trains were the most fun as every style of car had a different way of getting from one to another. We would also jump from one train to another. The train bulls would run us off if they saw us but we loved the game, often 6 or 7 kids at one time. Good thing the yard was usually quiet and the trains seldom moved or it probably would have ended in tragedy.

When I got to mid teens and later when I needed to travel cheap hitch hiking was my preferred method of travel. Probably put close to 100K miles on my thumb during my hitch hiking career. Made several trips across Canada and around Europe. Even hitch hiked with my son when he was pre-teen several times as a means of retrieving a vehicle after a 1 way canoe or hiking trip.

Quote: Buzzard

. No telling how many hot boxes we caused Dumb kids !

Egads. Even today the worst of the train riders don't mess with journal boxes or switches. Maybe that is why rail road employees can be so helpful in letting people know when a train is making up and where it is bound. There are rules and oddly enough its the Anarchists who are most often the most rule abiding train riders. Just as its the Anarchists who seem to make the best sailors when something has to be done and be done fast.

Sorry to wake up an old thread but I decided to actually put my bucket list in writing. Here is what I have so far. Any suggestions of things to add or take off?

1. Hike the Appalachian Trail
2. Hike the John Muir Trail
3. Hike the Tahoe Rim Trail
4. Bicycle across the United States
5. Bicycle across New Zealand (north to south)
6. Bicycle the Camino de Santiago
7. Bicycle the Dalton Highway
8. Climb Mount Kilimanjaro
9. Climb Mount Aconcagua
10. Climb Mount Baker
11. Climb Pico de Orizaba
12. See the Northern (or Southern) Lights
13. Visit all 50 states (only Kentucky and North Dakota left)
14. Bicycle the Italian Dolomites
15. Climb Mount Adams

I see you mentioned bicycling the Camino de Santiago.

My buddy has hiked it twice, and he told me about something you might want to check into.

Apparently there is a town with a winery that has a faucet offering free wine to all who want it.

He tried it, said it was horrible.

Other bucket list ideas:

Unicycle across the Golden Gate bridge

Try sky diving, and if you're already pretty good at it, take it to the Nth degree and jump off of a cliff in Norway or on Baffin Island wearing a wingsuit

swim with dolphins

drop acid with your lawyer while driving a convertible from LA to Las Vegas

Quote: Wizard

Any suggestions of things to add or take off?

Roll 19 yos in a row.

Quote: Wizard

Sorry to wake up an old thread but I decided to actually put my bucket list in writing. Here is what I have so far. Any suggestions of things to add or take off?

1. Hike the Appalachian Trail
2. Hike the John Muir Trail
3. Hike the Tahoe Rim Trail
4. Bicycle the Camino de Santiago
5. Bicycle across the United States
6. Bicycle across New Zealand (north to south)
7. Bicycle the Camino de Santiago
8. Bicycle the Dalton Highway
9. Climb Mount Kilimanjaro
10. Climb Mount Aconcagua
11. Climb Mount Baker
12. Climb Pico de Orizaba
13. See the Northern (or Southern) Lights
14. Visit all 50 states (only Kentucky and North Dakota left)
15. Bicycle the Italian Dolomites
16. Climb Mount Adams

Wiz,

Ever since your "Mecca" trip wish, I've been wracking my brains to come up with a KTB or Kick The Bucket List. Here's what I've come up with - you are most welcome to use or modify my posting to make a new poll for Shackleford's KTB List!

Your items all fit in 2 categories, "Sports, participate" and "Sports/Activities, watch" (#13&14).

Top 7 KTB items

What are the top 3 items on your KTB (Kick The Bucket) list? Adding some pictures or a short description makes the post more enjoyable for everyone!

My top 3 are the 2 sports-related items and food - fortunately, the travel to Portugal or Brazil to hear Brazilian guitar samba music has the bonus of allowing me to enjoy the local cuisine as well!

EXOTIC TRAVEL:

FOOD: Enjoy an omelette at Le Mont St Michel in Normandy, France https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vMx-DvuN0ho or tapas somewhere in Spain or take the Napa Valley Train Wine Tour

or eat authentic bouillabaisse in Marseilles

FRIENDS: Visit with friends I've not seen or heard from in 25+ years

MUSIC: Visit Portugal or Brazil for authentic guitar samba music

ROMANTIC GETAWAY:

SPORTS, participate: Snorkeling on the Great Barrier Reef


SPORTS, watch: any of the 6 Grand Sumo tournaments in Japan. They are 15-days long, from morning to night! A box seat near the arena only costs $380 or $95/pax.

Quote: MrV

Apparently there is a town with a winery that has a faucet (or fountain) offering / gushing free wine to all who want it.

He tried it, said it was horrible.

I'm not surprised. Probably some swill that went bad.

Quote:

Other bucket list ideas:

Unicycle across the Golden Gate bridge -- Too easy.

Try sky diving, and if you're already pretty good at it, take it to the Nth degree and jump off of a cliff in Norway or on Baffin Island wearing a wingsuit -- Already did that, in Australia. The wingsuits I hear are pretty dangerous. I'm tempted to try hang gliding but I am not wing suits are not my calling.

swim with dolphins -- I sort of did that. Kayaking in Hawaii a whole bunch of dolphins were following my kayak, jumping in and out of the water. Very cool. I just have got out to swim with them.

drop acid with your lawyer while driving a convertible from LA to Las Vegas -- I was tempted to try mushrooms in Amsterdam, but didn't. Hopefully those people doing this aren't littering on my highway clean-up mile.

Quote: Wizard

Any suggestions of things to add or take off?

4. | Bicycle the Camino de Santiago

7. | Bicycle the Camino de Santiago

Suggestions? Maybe there is one you could replace.

Quote: LostWages

Wiz,

Ever since your "Mecca" trip wish, I've been wracking my brains to come up with a KTB or Kick The Bucket List. Here's what I've come up with - you are most welcome to use or modify my posting to make a new poll for Shackleford's KTB List! ...

Thanks for sharing your list. The sumo wrestling sounds very cool. I can't think of any eating-related things to put down. Great Barrier Reef I'd like to do but bucket list worthy, at least for me.

I am nailing a bucket Lister next week...Wrigley Field.

Bicycle across the USA....
Can be anything from a week long race that is held every two years, to a less competitive camping trip in small groups.

Dalton Highway seems great but choose the season carefully.

Anything in New Zealand is fun. Hitch, bicycle, wwoofing. Don't ignore the music festivals they have there.

Have you thought of Argentina: wine country, volunteer organizations. Contact SpeakLink for host groups anywhere in the country. You could drop in on Speak English After Work groups...they meet in pubs. Home meals can be arranged but mostly you will be invited to partake of BBQs.

Sail solo across The Ditch (Tasmann Sea).

Sail the Northern Volcanos and combine that with the Auroa Borealis. Several countries. (Rifle mandatory in Spitzbergen though).

Bicycle down that Pennsylvania mountain route... 110 miles. Police inspect your brakes before the Starting gun.

Do the Sonoma County Pot Tasting tour.

Visit the Lost River (no known origin or outlet) ALL explorers have died.

I'd like to ride the zipline in Sun City, South Africa:

Sun City zipline

There's another zipline, this one a bit closer to home, that is also claimed to be the world's fastest; it's in Wales.

Heck, ride both of them.

My list has only food and restaurants on it, that's
as physical as I like to get. I consider it a victory
if I can survive pushing my cart around Walmart
on my weekly grocery trip.

Quote: MrV

I'd like to ride the zipline in Sun City, South Africa:

Sun City zipline

There's another zipline, this one a bit closer to home, that is also claimed to be the world's fastest; it's in Wales.

Heck, ride both of them.

I would be happy to either one! Thanks for the suggestions. I have done the big two in Vegas and a bunch of little ones in Lake Tahoe but this gives me something to aspire to.

Quote: FleaStiff

Bicycle across the USA....
Can be anything from a week long race that is held every two years, to a less competitive camping trip in small groups.

Dalton Highway seems great but choose the season carefully.

Anything in New Zealand is fun. Hitch, bicycle, wwoofing. Don't ignore the music festivals they have there.

Have you thought of Argentina: wine country, volunteer organizations. Contact SpeakLink for host groups anywhere in the country. You could drop in on Speak English After Work groups...they meet in pubs. Home meals can be arranged but mostly you will be invited to partake of BBQs.

Sail solo across The Ditch (Tasmann Sea).

Sail the Northern Volcanos and combine that with the Auroa Borealis. Several countries. (Rifle mandatory in Spitzbergen though).

Bicycle down that Pennsylvania mountain route... 110 miles. Police inspect your brakes before the Starting gun.

Do the Sonoma County Pot Tasting tour.

Visit the Lost River (no known origin or outlet) ALL explorers have died.

You can see I already want to do the highest peak in South American, which is in Argentina, near the wine country. I'm sure I'll dink around the Mendoza region while I'm there. Already been to Buenos Aires so don't need to do that again.

As far as sailing, as much as I like boats, I still suffer from sea sickness. As long as the boat is moving I seem to be okay. I just can't take floating in the ocean with the boat bobbing up and down and up and down and up and down...

I would be more tempted to go UP that bicycle route. No challenge in going downhill.

Will look into the Lost River.

Have you been to the true highest point on earth?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimborazo

What are the odds of surviving all those climbs? This all seems very dangerous, even the bike riding can get you killed. The list is too difficult imo and suicidal. No way Jose don't do it.