Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy

On a related topic, I understand that a single woman can't be in the company of men, except family members, on the Sabbath.

So, there was an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry was on a ski left with a very orthodox single Jewish woman. About an hour before the sun set they were going on "one last run" when the ski lift broke and they were just sitting there. As the sun got closer to setting the woman got more and more nervous about breaking the Sabbath. Larry tried to explain that these were extenuating circumstances and that it wasn't her fault. However, she would have none of it. Seconds before the sun dipped below the horizon she jumped off the ski lift. As I recall, it was a long way down, like 60 feet. Although she would have landed in snow, I tend to think broken bones would have been involved.

So, my question is how realistic was this scene?

Here is a link to the video.

Quote: Wizard

On a related topic, I understand that a single woman can't be in the company of men, except family members, on the Sabbath.

So, there was an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry was on a ski left with a very orthodox single Jewish woman. About an hour before the sun set they were going on "one last run" when the ski lift broke and they were just sitting there. As the sun got closer to setting the woman got more and more nervous about breaking the Sabbath. Larry tried to explain that these were extenuating circumstances and that it wasn't her fault. However, she would have none of it. Seconds before the sun dipped below the horizon she jumped off the ski lift. As I recall, it was a long way down, like 60 feet. Although she would have landed in snow, I tend to think broken bones would have been involved.

So, my question is how realistic was this scene?

Here is a link to the video.

I didn't have a chance to watch the video. I'm sure it was very funny. His stuff usually is.

To answer the question: Not at all realistic.

There are so many things to do in preparation for the sabbath, that, even if she was living in a house on the edge of the ski slope, she shouldn't have been on skis that late in the day. But ignoring that, once she was in that situation, Larry was right about the extenuating circumstances. Or at least right about not risking life and limb to jump.

Any invocation of a religious purpose suspends the rules of precise logic.

Pressing an elevator buttoned that gloes red upon being activated sometimes comes under the rules for fire but there is no relationship between the two.

Many an Amish man encourages his son to join the church and then announces he has just sold off the farm and hired some Englishman to drive an RV down to Florida for him.

At a blackjack table one can carry the odds out to a zillion places and anyone with a calculator and some patience will happily check it, but once religion enters the framework, everything else is meaningless.

Wizard, "I understand that a single woman can't be in the company of men, except family members, on the Sabbath. "

That is BS

The rule is a women can't be alone with a man not in her immediate family. If a third person is there (I think a child has to be at least 3 yrs old), or in a public place such as outside with other people (staff trying to fix a lift) you can't be alone!!!

Quote: whatme

The rule is a women can't be alone with a man not in her immediate family. If a third person is there (I think a child has to be at least 3 yrs old), or in a public place such as outside with other people (staff trying to fix a lift) you can't be alone!!!

I stand corrected.

I meant to mention that it's being alone with one man in my reply above.

And it extends to ANY woman, on ANY day.

And it also means that, regardlss of whoever else is around, men and women that are not closely related shouldn't have any sort of physical contact. Many orthodox people take this to a further level by not swimming in the same pool at the same time.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I meant to mention that it's being alone with one man in my reply above.

And it extends to ANY woman, on ANY day.

And it also means that, regardlss of whoever else is around, men and women that are not closely related shouldn't have any sort of physical contact. Many orthodox people take this to a further level by not swimming in the same pool at the same time.

True story--- I had a nice large pool, a wonderful place to relax on a warm Buffalo summers day. An uncle, religious, had a colleague who had converted to Judaism and had lots, I think 8, kids. They were visiting him and he asked if the wife and kids could come over and swim. Of course I said yes. When I was told that I would not be allowed to be present I changed my mind.

Quote: Wizard

So, my question is how realistic was this scene?

Absolutely not realistic, if indeed the woman was very orthodox and learned and not short-sighted. Personal well-being and the well-being of others always comes first. A religious Jew would not hestitate to violate the Sabbath if a life or serious bodily injury was as stake. You don't jump off a ski lift and risk hurting/killing yourself if you might violate the Sabbath. No rabbi would advise that.

As for the male/female rules, there are a lot of them and observance runs the gamut. The three main doctrines are N'giah (the prohibition of male/female umarrieds touching), tzinus (modesty), and yichud (prohibition of seclusion of male/female unmarrieds). Anyhow, there's a lot more one could go into there.

By the way, I agree with everything DJTeddyBear said and I would like him to be designated co-Judaism expert :)

Now that I finally watched the scene, I'll say that it wasn't realistic AT ALL.

Ignoring for a moment that she should have already been home getting ready for sabbath, or that the rule she quoted doesn't exist, the prohibition of a woman and man being alone together and avoiding contact should have precluded her from getting on the chairlift with him in the first place.


For fun and argument's sake, say that they got on the lift at noon. Plenty of time for her to get home. Then it breaks down, and they are there for hours, and sabbath is approaching. FYI: Can't use a ski lift on sabbath, so she COULD have been concerned with being on it after sabbath begins, if she's on it much longer. Is that any reason to jump? No. Too dangerous. Continue to wait for it to resume or for help to arrive.

Note, assuming it's never fixed, and the rescue squad arrives with a cherry picker, there will probably be a man in the bucket to assist. Should she then be concerned with him touching her to help her out of the lift? No.

Larry had it exactly right: Extenuating circumstances.

Quote: teddys

By the way, I agree with everything DJTeddyBear said and I would like him to be designated co-Judaism expert :)

Thanks for that vote, but is this where I remind everyone that I'm a Reverend?

For what it's worth, I was raised orthodox, and have a brother who is two-spoons shy of being a Rabbi, and still love going to his house for Passover Seder, even though the food doesn't come out until around midnight.

As a result I know more about Judaism than I really care to.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Is that any reason to jump? No. Too dangerous. Continue to wait for it to resume or for help to arrive.

Maybe they could install an eruv around the skiing area.