Who owns the Moon Rock?
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13 members have voted
However, NASA's own website has this query and response in their FAQ:
Quote: NASA's "Get a Straight Answer" websiteQuestion
Dear Gentlemen,
If you be so kind as to reply, please tell me, is it true that the Moon has a formal proprietor and who is this man?
Thank you in advance for your kindness.
Reply
I do not know who told you differently, but the moon belongs to all of us together, even you, even I. When Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon he said "We came in peace in the name of all of mankind" and that still holds true.
I could read this as the Grandma can have her piece of the Moon, and do with it what she wants. It doesn't belong to the U.S. government, it belongs to "all of mankind". What do you say?
Still, if Neil Armstrong was given a few pieces, and if he gave some as gifts, then in this case the lady is clearly the owner.
BTW in the near future, say anywhere from 15 to 25 years from now, private companies may well set up on the Moon. What happens then? We'll ahve to come up with a way to aportion property rights fairly. I'm afraid that will be well beyond the capabilities of any existent government, and many if not all will insist the Moon remain some form of common property, or, worse, no one's property.
Quote: NareedBTW in the near future, say anywhere from 15 to 25 years from now, private companies may well set up on the Moon. What happens then? We'll ahve to come up with a way to aportion property rights fairly. I'm afraid that will be well beyond the capabilities of any existent government, and many if not all will insist the Moon remain some form of common property, or, worse, no one's property.
Isn't that already the situation with Antarctica? When I was a kid the map of the continent looked like a pizza, cut up in slices. However, I thought it was later agreed to belong to no country and to be used primarily for science. I would imagine the same kind of agreement could be made regarding the moon.
I imagine it would be like Antarctica... without the oxygen. At some point the Chinese will get there, and probably offer to sell our lunar landers and rovers back to us as scrap.
And we will buy them.
Quote: Nareed
BTW in the near future, say anywhere from 15 to 25 years from now, private companies may well set up on the Moon. What happens then? We'll ahve to come up with a way to aportion property rights fairly. I'm afraid that will be well beyond the capabilities of any existent government, and many if not all will insist the Moon remain some form of common property, or, worse, no one's property.
Interesting, I cant think of a good reason for a corporation to set up on the moon but who knows what the next few decades will bring. I think it would have to be "to the victor goes the spoils", unless it isn't a US corporation.
I think the lady owns the rock and should be hers to do with as she pleases unless there is a scientific or safety reason it shouldn't go into unknown hands. Is the moon dangerously radioactive?
Quote: AyecarumbaWhy would it be worse if it was "no one's property."?
Would you make an investment of billions of dollars if you dind't know the land on which it stood was yours, or at leat that you had a right to it? What if some government can take it away at whim? Or, since we're talking about the Moon, what if they can seize your property back on Earth as retaliation for claiming a piece of the Moon?
Consider how America settled the west. There was a homestead act awarding property rights and ownership for parcels where anyone could set up and work the land. Without that, what woudl ahev stopped other individuals, corporations, territorial governors, or the feds from letting you buils a prosperous farm, say, and then taking it away?
Property rigths are paramount in business. Without clear rights you can't do much.
Quote: NareedProperty rigths are paramount in business. Without clear rights you can't do much.
Tell that to the Native Americans.
Seriously, the Homestead act was developed to encourage Americans to move West and occupy the land to deflect other nations from laying claim to the same space. Eventually, the government did take some property that was privately developed, or supposedly reserved for the Indian nations, claiming "eminent domain."
But why so stressed about Moon rocks in private hands? Why are NASA's panties so tightly knotted over this?
Quote: AyecarumbaSeriously, the Homestead act was developed to encourage Americans to move West and occupy the land to deflect other nations from laying claim to the same space.
Even so, no one, or very few, would have gone without a guarantee on their property.
Quote:Eventually, the government did take some property that was privately developed, or supposedly reserved for the Indian nations, claiming "eminent domain."
That's another indecency which should be looked at. I still can't quite belive the Supreme Court ruled as it did on the Kelo case.
Quote:But why so stressed about Moon rocks in private hands? Why are NASA's panties so tightly knotted over this?
Well, Moon rocks are quite valuable, as the supply is very limited and those who want them are willing to pay large amounts. Most of the rocks brought back were sent to research labs. I suppose some were used up in tests, but most ought to still exist. of course, those in labs will stay there for a long time. As technology advances, new research can be carried out on them. A few rocks were given as gifts, some no doubt have been stolen, etc.
So, perhaps that grain of Moon rock is qorth half of NASA's yearly budget? :P
Quote: WikipediaAlthough Luna landers scattered pennants of the Soviet Union on the Moon, and U.S. flags were symbolically planted at their landing sites by the Apollo astronauts, no nation currently claims ownership of any part of the Moon's surface.[157] Russia and the U.S. are party to the 1967 Outer Space Treaty,[158] which defines the Moon and all outer space as the "province of all mankind".[157] This treaty also restricts the use of the Moon to peaceful purposes, explicitly banning military installations and weapons of mass destruction.[159] The 1979 Moon Agreement was created to restrict the exploitation of the Moon's resources by any single nation, but it has not been signed by any of the space-faring nations.[160] While several individuals have made claims to the Moon in whole or in part, none of these are considered credible.
Link
Where is Nevada's?
Quote: AyecarumbaRecently, a 74 year old grandma was busted for attempting to sell a speck of moon rock that Neil Armstrong gave to her deceased husband. The NASA goons, backed up by a SWAT team with guns at the ready, took the old lady down, claiming that the moon rock (actually smaller than a grain of rice) was stolen U.S. Government property.
I could read this as the Grandma can have her piece of the Moon, and do with it what she wants. It doesn't belong to the U.S. government, it belongs to "all of mankind". What do you say?
How can they put in an honest days work if they don't goon SOMEBODY? There's nothing else for them to do.
Quote: heatherIf the US doesn't own it, what's up with having planted the flag? I kinda thought that such a gesture was intended to communicate "I claim this satellite in the name of the United States" and would expect even the least-informed observer to come to a similar conclusion.
If planting a flag does constitute a claim of ownership, then I think you'll find the former Soviet Union has first rights. They crash-landed a Soviet pennant on the moon well before anyone stood on the moon. Now that's a good hedge bet!
Quote: algleIf planting a flag does constitute a claim of ownership, then I think you'll find the former Soviet Union has first rights. They crash-landed a Soviet pennant on the moon well before anyone stood on the moon. Now that's a good hedge bet!
No one has seriously made any territorial claims on the Moon.
But for a serious, if light-hearted, view of such a thing, I highly recommend Robert Heinlen's "The Man Who Sold The Moon." The science is a bit outdated, and his view of stage rockets is old fashioned, but the story is very good. And Delos D. Harriman is as lovable a character as you'll ever find in his fiction.
Quote: algleIf planting a flag does constitute a claim of ownership, then I think you'll find the former Soviet Union has first rights. They crash-landed a Soviet pennant on the moon well before anyone stood on the moon. Now that's a good hedge bet!
Really?! I didn't know that. Didn't they do the same thing recently, planting a flag on the ocean floor below the north pole?
Humor time: The Cunning Use of Flags by Eddie Izzard.
Quote: WizardReally?! I didn't know that. Didn't they do the same thing recently, planting a flag on the ocean floor below the north pole?
Sorry, should have posted the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2
Quote:Luna-2
The first spacecraft to impact the Moon, in 1959. It carried two spheres (7.5 and 12 cm in diameter) filled with liquid and an explosive charge, designed to burst apart on impact and scatter pentagonal pennants. The messages are Sentiabr' 1959 (September 1959), SSSR, Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). The icon of the wreath of grain around the hammer and sickle is the state seal of the USSR.
Luna-2 and its pennants were actually probably vaporized. They struck the Moon at a relative velocity of 3.3 kilometers per second. Assuming kinetic energy is converted to heat, and given the specific heat of steel, the resulting temperature obtained is 11000° K.
Quote: DocThis link makes the following comment about the Luna_2 pennants:
Thanks Doc, I was going to post that link too, but got sidetracked.
It's worth a look just to see what these "pennants" look like - they are not the same as flags by any means!
In any case, most countries including all the space-faring ones have signed the Outer Space Treaty which forbids any government from claiming a celestial body - including the moon.
Quote: WizardOn the topic of where the moon rocks are, here is a very entertaining CBS news segment on an astronaut trainee who stole lots of moon rocks, to impress his girlfriend. My favorite part was how they had sex on top of them.
There's a book about it, I just finished it a couple months ago. Sex on the Moon, by Ben Mizrich (same guy who wrote Bringing Down the House). It's pretty good, better than some of his other stuff.
