MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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September 14th, 2016 at 11:41:33 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

We are a republic, not a democracy. We were never supposed to be a democracy. By nature democracies are transitionary, they cannot be stable. A sure way to destroy our republic, and our freedom, is to turn our country into a democracy and make it easy for more and more people to vote. Either by way of anarchy, or directly, a democracy will end in oligarchy. That's why I mentioned here before, voters used to have to be qualified. Voting is not a God-given right. I hope I will not live to see the day, but I suspect many posters here are young enough that they will see the end of America as we know it. And they won't know what to do with themselves. Hopefully for them it will be gentle, and not require massive liquidation of population reduced to manageable proportions as under Mao or Stalin.

We haven't functionally been a republic for a long time. According to this 2014 study, we're already an oligarchy:
Quote:

After sifting through nearly 1,800 U.S. policies enacted in that period and comparing them to the expressed preferences of average Americans (50th percentile of income), affluent Americans (90th percentile), and large special interests groups, researchers concluded that the U.S. is dominated by its economic elite.


http://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4

Yes, yes, I know -- how many people are going to think "well, duh!" But the point is that any systemic change needs to take in to account where we actually are, not where we should be.

When America ends as we know it, it'll be because the robot apocalypse/technological singularity happens in about 25 years. We don't have enough time to screw up badly enough before then, and afterwards it won't matter. And I definitely expect to be around to see it. Whether I'll be happy about it is a question only time will answer.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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September 15th, 2016 at 12:23:44 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

You truly are a maroon. Please quote any post I've ever made here that gave the impression I favor the right? Just one.
But it's cool. There's a place in the world for the angry young man.



Quit the name calling, please; this and your post above it. I'm giving the politics threads a little latitude for the moment so I'm stopping with a warning. For now. Thanks.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 15th, 2016 at 2:18:37 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Voting is not a God-given right. I hope I will not live to see the day, but I suspect many posters here are young enough that they will see the end of America as we know it. And they won't know what to do with themselves. Hopefully for them it will be gentle, and not require massive liquidation of population reduced to manageable proportions as under Mao or Stalin.



I don't think the USA has 50 years left in her as a country. We probably have at least 20, but remember the USSR went from on the march in 1970 to gone about 20 years later. Germany raised from not existing to near Euro domination to defeat in 20 years. Then they did it again over 20 years!

Collapse is probably inevitable. Almost half of the people will not be able to make it on their own so no need for the liquidations. Natural forces will handle that.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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September 15th, 2016 at 2:45:36 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Reading is Fundamental. You might try it some time. If you bothered reading the post , you might see I was complaining about the lack of polling places in and around Phoenix, where much of the states Democrats live. But you think anyone that doesn't support six month voting periods must be a Republican out to suppress the vote.
What a maroon. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.



When I lived there, Tuscon was always considered more liberal than Phoenix.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
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September 15th, 2016 at 3:40:58 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I don't think the USA has 50 years left in her as a country. We probably have at least 20, but remember the USSR went from on the march in 1970 to gone about 20 years later. Germany raised from not existing to near Euro domination to defeat in 20 years. Then they did it again over 20 years!

Collapse is probably inevitable. Almost half of the people will not be able to make it on their own so no need for the liquidations. Natural forces will handle that.




I think those are good guesstimates you made, between 20 and 50 years, I would have come up with a similar number.

As to the USSR, it's a different kind of example. First, they are masters of deception. Absolute masters. In his 1984 book, New Lies for Old, KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn wrote of a long-term ruse to lull the west to sleep. In other words, they purposely "ended" communism, with barely a shot being fired. In the book he explains in detail how they orchestrated a contrived "Sino-Soviet Split", also the splits between Tito and the Soviets, Albania and the Soviets, all a ruse. He even explained how they would bring the Berlin Wall down, and this was in 1984. "Perestroika", it was all planned, all a ruse from within. Now, of course, we are all "friends", while they and China are building the most massive military war machines in the world's history. They will leave nothing to chance. They don't want to destroy us, they want to occupy us. A complete merger. There will be no more "communism", it will be called something else. But it will be world government, and we will be brought down from within. Our own people will vote for national suicide.
Don't believe anything until it is officially denied.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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September 15th, 2016 at 4:27:26 AM permalink
This is why we need early voting and vote by mail
Every single voter should get the right to vote
Voting on one day prevents many of my clients from voting
I arrange business travel for a company that employs thousands of engineers and executives that manage them
None of their engineers and executives know if they will be in the country election day
Their business travel is very unpredictable
They have to travel out of the country often to take care of customer issues, supplier issues and major project issues
Some trips they plan a week in advance, some trips they only get a day notice.
None of these employees can guarantee they will be in the country election day. None of them can predict that.
Some trips require a couple days out of the country, some trips require weeks outside the country
These voters should have the right to vote early or vote by mail
American domestic manufacturing jobs are dependent on international travel by my clients
These clients should have the right to vote
Last edited by: terapined on Sep 15, 2016
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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September 15th, 2016 at 4:42:32 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


No reason for early voting. Show up on election day, simple concept.



None of my clients know if they will be in the country election day
Not everybody does neighborhood side hustle jobs
A lot of people have important jobs that require them to spend days or weeks away from home
Last edited by: terapined on Sep 15, 2016
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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September 15th, 2016 at 8:38:43 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Collapse is probably inevitable. Almost half of the people will not be able to make it on their own so no need for the liquidations. Natural forces will handle that.



There is a lot of money to be made guessing right on these things
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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September 15th, 2016 at 8:47:10 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

There is a lot of money to be made guessing right on these things

But if the country collapses, money won't matter. Just ask Zimbabwe.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 15th, 2016 at 8:55:37 PM permalink
Since when is calling some a maroon an insult?
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way

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