LostWages
LostWages
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July 27th, 2016 at 7:15:32 PM permalink
Joeman,

You suggested that if I buy-in for, say, $80, I should leave when I hit $160 or $0, of after 45 min if I haven't reached either limit. Other postings I've read suggest I leave when my bankroll is down 50%, or if I'm up 30-40%.

I noticed during some of my practice sessions on WOO's BJ Game & Trainer, that with good play I am fortunate enough to get a winning streak after 10 deals and end up with $52.50. The Game bankroll is $1,000 but I know my starter bankroll would indeed be $80 (to match what I do when I play VP Deuces are Wild).

So if I've made $52.50 after just 10 deals, should I (a newbie, reminder) indeed leave the table and go do something else for a while before thinking of returning to the BJ table?

I know part of the experience is recreational, and it will be for me. And it seems wise to leave when I'm winning.

Just looking for thoughts from you or other readers.
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 27th, 2016 at 9:15:20 PM permalink
You should get up when you feel your focus softening.

You should get up when you're hungry, bored, or distracted.

You should get up at least for a bathroom break if you make a mistake and feel like you're focusing on the past instead of what's happening now.

Otherwise, it's a lifetime session, and your win - loss will ride as it rides, hopefully close to or exceeding expectation.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
LostWages
LostWages
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July 27th, 2016 at 9:51:28 PM permalink
I like adding your suggestions to my "ammunition" and "lifeline" pocket - Tks for tips, which BTW all make perfect sense to me.

I believe reading somewhere about rules that say I can tell the dealer to save my place so I can take a bathroom break (or whatever). Is that correct?
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 27th, 2016 at 10:52:10 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

I like adding your suggestions to my "ammunition" and "lifeline" pocket - Tks for tips, which BTW all make perfect sense to me.

I believe reading somewhere about rules that say I can tell the dealer to save my place so I can take a bathroom break (or whatever). Is that correct?



Yes. Unless you're in a really skanky place, you should be able to leave chips stacked in front of your spot and go. Ask them to hold your place, they will usually place a disc called a lammer on your bet circle to mark it in use. 10 minutes at most.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Joeman
Joeman
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July 28th, 2016 at 5:44:44 AM permalink
Quote: LostWages

Joeman,

You suggested that if I buy-in for, say, $80, I should leave when I hit $160 or $0, of after 45 min if I haven't reached either limit. Other postings I've read suggest I leave when my bankroll is down 50%, or if I'm up 30-40%.

I noticed during some of my practice sessions on WOO's BJ Game & Trainer, that with good play I am fortunate enough to get a winning streak after 10 deals and end up with $52.50. The Game bankroll is $1,000 but I know my starter bankroll would indeed be $80 (to match what I do when I play VP Deuces are Wild).

So if I've made $52.50 after just 10 deals, should I (a newbie, reminder) indeed leave the table and go do something else for a while before thinking of returning to the BJ table?

I know part of the experience is recreational, and it will be for me. And it seems wise to leave when I'm winning.

Just looking for thoughts from you or other readers.



LW,

You will sometimes see the terms bankroll and buy-in used interchangeably, but they really have different meanings. A buy-in is just what you put on the table for that session, while a bankroll is the total amount of money you have put aside for gambling. Sometimes, this will refer to a "trip bankroll" (which I believe you stated was $500 for the cruise). In my example, the $80 was your buy-in. Depending on how long the cruise is/how many days you will want to gamble, buying-in for 1/6 your trip bankroll is probably reasonable.

That said, my best advice to you is to do whatever you are comfortable with. Only you know what your risk/loss tolerances are. For example, I would be comfortable with losing the whole buy-in. If that possibility doesn't sit well with you, then definitely set other win/loss limits for yourself. Just be prepared, though. You could sit at the $10 table and lose your first four hands. Heck, there is a small possibility that you may lose $40 in one hand with splits & doubles. If you lose 50% of your buy-in within a minute or two of sitting down, are you going to want to get up? On the flip side, you could sit down and win 1/2 your buy-in right off the bat. I doubt you'll want to get up after you've won your first 4 hands! :)

Like Babs said, it's all just one long session. Setting limits won't make you win more or lose less; it's just a way to manage your bankroll. You are managing your money to get the most fun on your cruise. Only you know what this entails, so set limits you are comfortable with. I will say this: Since the game is -EV, it's never a bad time to get up from the table.

And, to add to Babs' fine list of "You should get up's," I would add one more: You should get up when playing is no longer enjoyable. (Although, perhaps that is just a synopsis of all of her suggestions rolled into one.)

One more thing, since you mentioned VP, the Carnival casinos I have played in have had the worst paytables I have ever seen. I don't recall what the paytables for the Deuces Wild games were, but their 25c Jacks or Better was 6/5 (returning 6 for 1 for a full house and 5 for 1 on a flush). I think this comes out to around 95% payback vs. the 99.54% payback of a full-pay 9/6 JoB.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
LostWages
LostWages
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July 28th, 2016 at 9:42:47 AM permalink
Joeman,

Wow! Even with no experience, I feel like I could start writing a guide for beginners, using all these tips I'm getting from you and the other forum contributors, starting from 1st sit down to exiting the table, and all the events in-between (making 1st bet, tipping the dealer, ignoring loudmouths, leaving when it's no fun, etc.). Makes me wonder if you guys ever thought about writing a book or starting a blog (or maybe you do have these?

I am guilty of interchangeably using the terms bankroll and buy-in; I almost feel more comfortable now with that distinction, since losing my buy-in at one sitting won't be the end of the world. In my case, like you pointed out, $80 buy-in would be about 1/6 of my bankroll of $500. So if 1/6 is gone, I'd have 5 more "sessions" to enjoy my recreational journey, whether it's for later on in the day, or just another whole day later.
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
billryan
billryan
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July 28th, 2016 at 11:24:42 AM permalink
I am friends with three authors of BJ books. You need to understand that BJ books have a very limited market and almost every AP thinks he has a unique story to tell. One sold about 5,000 copies yielding him about $500 in royalties., or as he likes to put it -twenty five cents an hour for all the effort involved. The other two were slightly more successful but the world isn't smacking its lips in anticipation of the next blackjack book.
I think a well written blog, updated often, would yield more revenue than writing a book.
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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July 28th, 2016 at 7:04:02 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

I've been able to memorize the Wizard Strategy simple exceptions by Jeff Pepper (only 18 cells to remember!). We're getting ready to go on a Carnival Cruise trip, and I verified that they do have 3:2 blackjack, but the minimum bet starts at $10. That's a bit rich for my pocket. They do have $5 minimum to play 6:5 blackjack or "21". I am going to play recreational with a modest bankroll of $500. This will be my first time on a live blackjack table.

Any advice from those of you with more playing experience?



I would stay away from ANY game in ANY shipboard casino. Here's why: a ship at sea is essentially its own jurisdiction, subject PERHAPS to admiralty law and PERHAPS to the laws of the country in which the ship is registered (which is often someplace like Liberia, and rarely the US). My point is that you would not have ANY recourse if you were cheated. The casino could remove several ten-count cards from the shoe, for example, and you could never detect it--and the house edge would be increased by several percent (you couldn't tell, for example, if there was one less ten of diamonds, Jack of spades, Queen of hearts, and King of clubs in the shoe). While you don't have to worry about direct dealer cheating (a good cheating dealer wouldn't work for the minimum wage and the limited hours that a cruise ship provides), you have NO assurance that the game is fair. There IS NO independent monitoring or auditing of shipboard casinos, and if you somehow did feel that you were cheated, all you could do is complain to the ones who were cheating you! Good luck with that.

Aside from that, you are paying $100+ a day to be on board this ship. Presumably, that's because you are getting experiences that you can't duplicate--the onboard meals and entertainment, the ports of call, etc. But you can find a casino practically anywhere in the country--or the world--these days; there's a casino under every rock. Why spend your time and money doing something you could just as easily do by hopping in your car and driving an hour or two to your local casino?

Other people have called me paranoid (and a lot worse) for refusing to gamble in places where I have no protection from fraud and cheating and no recourse for damages, but we paranoid people tend to last longer :) Think about it. You're playing the Mega Gonzo Ship on a Shingle Progressive dollar machine and you hit the jackpot for three million dollars. The casino manager comes up to you and says, "Sorry, but Nigerian Cruise Lines has had a pretty bad year, and we're not going to pay you." What would you do? What COULD you do? (I know we're talking BJ here, but the principle is the same.)
LostWages
LostWages
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July 28th, 2016 at 8:57:44 PM permalink
Joe - thanks for your thoughts. No, I don't think you're paranoid. What you say is true in many parts of the world. Appreciate your concern, so if I do decide to play a couple of hands, you can certainly say "I told you so" and I won't feel bitter. I've pre-set my trip bankroll as well as my session buy-ins, so I won't go crazy and lose our home!
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
LostWages
LostWages
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November 10th, 2016 at 1:15:03 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

I would stay away from ANY game in ANY shipboard casino. Here's why: a ship at sea is essentially its own jurisdiction, subject PERHAPS to admiralty law and PERHAPS to the laws of the country in which the ship is registered (which is often someplace like Liberia, and rarely the US). My point is that you would not have ANY recourse if you were cheated. The casino could remove several ten-count cards from the shoe, for example, and you could never detect it--and the house edge would be increased by several percent (you couldn't tell, for example, if there was one less ten of diamonds, Jack of spades, Queen of hearts, and King of clubs in the shoe). While you don't have to worry about direct dealer cheating (a good cheating dealer wouldn't work for the minimum wage and the limited hours that a cruise ship provides), you have NO assurance that the game is fair. There IS NO independent monitoring or auditing of shipboard casinos, and if you somehow did feel that you were cheated, all you could do is complain to the ones who were cheating you! Good luck with that.

Aside from that, you are paying $100+ a day to be on board this ship. Presumably, that's because you are getting experiences that you can't duplicate--the onboard meals and entertainment, the ports of call, etc. But you can find a casino practically anywhere in the country--or the world--these days; there's a casino under every rock. Why spend your time and money doing something you could just as easily do by hopping in your car and driving an hour or two to your local casino?

Other people have called me paranoid (and a lot worse) for refusing to gamble in places where I have no protection from fraud and cheating and no recourse for damages, but we paranoid people tend to last longer :) Think about it. You're playing the Mega Gonzo Ship on a Shingle Progressive dollar machine and you hit the jackpot for three million dollars. The casino manager comes up to you and says, "Sorry, but Nigerian Cruise Lines has had a pretty bad year, and we're not going to pay you." What would you do? What COULD you do? (I know we're talking BJ here, but the principle is the same.)



Joe - FYI, I did avoid the Carnival Cruise BJ. The 3:2 BJ was $15 min, too rich for me. There was $10 BJ, but still rich and worse, 6:5 payoff. I was so tempted, but my mind was still screwed on tight. I really appreciated your posting! BTW, if your time and interest permits some comments, I made a full BJ TR here:

http://wizardofvegas.com/member/lostwages/blog/#post1411

If you enjoy reading about food journeys, I also made a 15-day blog about that too!

http://wizardofvegas.com/member/lostwages/blog/#post1410

Have a nice day,

LW
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)

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