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ams288
ams288
Joined: Sep 26, 2012
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January 11th, 2017 at 11:27:13 AM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

James Rosen.



The lack of any supporting documentation showing how Barack Obama went after James Rosen is noted.
"Trumped up trickle down" has an entire new meaning now, thanks to those Russian prostitutes...
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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January 11th, 2017 at 11:41:29 AM permalink
What a day, the media is made to look like
the fools they are.

Trump Report Takes ‘Fake News’ To a New Level

"There is literally no evidence on offer in these memos or from BuzzFeed that any single sentence in these documents is factual or true. What’s more, we know most major news organizations in America had seen them and despite their well-known institutional antipathy toward Trump, had chosen not to publish them or even make reference to them after efforts to substantiate their charges had failed." http://nypost.com/2017/01/10/buzzfeeds-trump-report-takes-fake-news-to-a-new-level/
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
ams288
ams288
Joined: Sep 26, 2012
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January 11th, 2017 at 11:48:29 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

What a day, the media is made to look like
the fools they are.

Trump Report Takes ‘Fake News’ To a New Level

"There is literally no evidence on offer in these memos or from BuzzFeed that any single sentence in these documents is factual or true. What’s more, we know most major news organizations in America had seen them and despite their well-known institutional antipathy toward Trump, had chosen not to publish them or even make reference to them after efforts to substantiate their charges had failed." http://nypost.com/2017/01/10/buzzfeeds-trump-report-takes-fake-news-to-a-new-level/



"Trumped up trickle down" has an entire new meaning now, thanks to those Russian prostitutes...
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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Thanks for this post from:
Boz
January 11th, 2017 at 1:39:49 PM permalink
Quote: Face

FWIW, when I think "numerate leftist", none other holds that slot than MichaelBluejay. My classification of you comes below...



What I see when viewing these threads is folks spewing what is a simplistic view of an already simplified stance, which has become so due to the medium we are engaging in. It's much like my earlier post where I tried to explain my anti-PC stance. In reality, a very complicated stance. But in type... it's hard to do much more than "PC is killin' ma' country!" without engaging in a several paragraph, hour long post.

I am exactly one of those "Let 'em suffer" fellas. I feel that simply by living in USA#1, any failure to succeed is nothing short of a failure of self, and as such, that responsibility should lie at that selfs' feet. It what I believe; further, it's what I live. There's not few here who know of my trials and tribulations, and there's a couple few that will attest to my refusal of charity, my "shunning of handouts". It's not a lack of compassion, as I believe I have, if anything, too much of that. But it's something, surely...

And I think what it is is nothing more than good, ol fashioned cynicism. I just haven't seen it, what the Left is trying to accomplish. Perhaps that's the fault of sensationalized media, maybe it's my fault for not being attuned to the positivity that surrounds me, but nothing pops into my mind when hearing "charity" or "welfare" other than fraud, corruption, and folks doing nothing while affording more and better material goods than the working man. Perhaps it's nothing more than brainwashing, perhaps it's nothing more than a lack of information, but it is nonetheless the only feeling that happens inside me.

But many things you've said have gotten through, and they've done so through no other means than an effort at communication and original ideas. You tell me to help a poor, and I'll tell you I am by not being one. Tell me to "help" by donating a buck, and I ain't got a buck to spare. Give a good and I ain't a good to give. But by mixing the tired standard of "give" with something attuned to "my side", "skill", and suddenly, we're approaching understanding. A left idea and a right concept merging, for no other reason than two folks listened and heard.

Lol, what's embarrassing is I was gonna reference what i think was Bab's post, about something serious going on and we're all bitching about some salacious bit of freaking gossip, and I can't even reference it properly because what was said was "important" and ain't nobody got time fo dat, so I just sort of skimmed it.

It's happening. Can we please dial up the proper discussion before I become just another caricature?



I think you and I are very much in the same boat when it comes to the poor, which is a subset of personal responsibility. We both, most importantly (and I'm paraphrasing your words and actions) refuse to judge other people. It just manifests itself differently in us.

I give, you don't. I allow that I may be getting scammed, you allow that at times people really legitimately need the help and can then recover to self-sufficiency. I think there is a place for social agencies, you don't. And we're both partly right. And you do walk the walk; as you mentioned above, you are self-reliant to a fault (my opinion) but I admire you very much for it. I believe that if you have, and those you love don't, you share. I've paid a high price for that belief, and it still grieves me.

If you are a caricature, you are one worthy of emulation. I am also a caricature, but belief structures and personal ethos tend to hang together, one leading to another. We are both products of.our environments, resources, and the consequences of our actions.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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January 11th, 2017 at 2:09:38 PM permalink
Quote: ams288

I assume Brokaw was referring to Trump and the CNN guy at today's "press conference."

If you can find an example of Obama going after someone from FOX like that, be my guest. But you can't.



Obama just went after the voting public telling them to stop getting their information from Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. Hillary also tried insulting the public that did not agree with her. Didn't work out too well for her, but great for those of us who laugh at your anger over Trumps election.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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January 11th, 2017 at 2:31:20 PM permalink
Quote: ams288

The lack of any supporting documentation showing how Barack Obama went after James Rosen is noted.

The inability to use a search engine is noted, going along with customary lack of any citation.

"The Justice Department did more than seize a Fox News reporter's emails while suggesting he was a criminal "co-conspirator" in a leak case -- it did so under one of the most serious wartime laws in America, the Espionage Act.

It's the same law used by the Nixon administration to go after The New York Times and Daniel Ellsberg over the leak of the Pentagon Papers. It's the law used to charge the Rosenbergs, American communists, for allegedly passing secret information to the Soviet Union -- they were executed for the offense in 1953.

One Washington attorney, who represents two defendants recently charged under that World War I-era law, told FoxNews.com that the decision by the Justice Department to invoke it in the current case is "beyond chilling" -- and could set a dangerous precedent for going after reporters.

"This kind of puts us into the deep freeze," attorney Jesselyn Radack said. "I feel like we're back to the Dark Ages."

In the case involving Fox News, a government adviser was accused of leaking information after a 2009 story by Fox News' James Rosen was published online which said North Korea planned to respond to looming U.N. sanctions with another nuclear test." FOX NEWS CHANNEL, YES, FNC

------
For those who fear that Fox News cannot report accurately on itself:
------
"Ever since a Monday Washington Post article revealed that the Department of Justice investigation into a national security leak included searches of Fox News reporter James Rosen‘s email and phone records, the media has been focused on fluffing up comparisons of that case with the unfolding Associated Press leak investigation. Lost amid the hype and hysteria over the searches was the actual content of the emails between Rosen and his alleged source, then-State Department contractor Stephen Jin-Woo Kim. In those emails, now confirmed to be from Rosen, the Fox News Reporter reveals his noble intentions for seeking secret information from Kim.

The Justice Department investigation stems from an alleged leak that appeared in this 2009 Fox News article by James Rosen:

U.S. intelligence officials have warned President Obama and other senior American officials that North Korea intends to respond to the passage of a U.N. Security Council resolution this week — condemning the communist country for its recent nuclear and ballistic missile tests — with another nuclear test, FOX News has learned.

What’s more, Pyongyang’s next nuclear detonation is but one of four planned actions the Central Intelligence Agency has learned, through sources inside North Korea, that the regime of Kim Jong-Il intends to take — but not announce — once the Security Council resolution is officially passed, likely on Friday.

Ordinarily, Fox News would be among the first people to tell you that we don’t tip off our enemies that we have sources deep within their governments. In fact, James Rosen would be the first to tell you that, in the same article:

FOX News is withholding some details about the sources and methods by which American intelligence agencies learned of the North’s plans so as to avoid compromising sensitive overseas operations in a country — North Korea — U.S. spymasters regard as one of the world’s most difficult to penetrate.

Yes, you have to wonder what a North Korean leak investigation looks like. Probably involves all kinds of search warrants and phone records and due process.

From the minute WaPo released its story, the press has been fluffing the details for maximum Scandalabra™ impact, comparing the Kim investigation with the DOJ’s seizure of the Associated Press’ phone records, and breathlessly reporting that the Justice Department “Tracked Rosen’s Movements,” and “Obtained His Personal Emails.”

You can think what you will of the investigation, but a review of DoJ documents reveals that they “tracked Rosen’s movements” by checking the government’s own records of ID badge use. By that logic, you could say that the Secret Service and the White House “track” my movements. Attica! Attica! Attica!

Furthermore, the emails and phone records they seized, as the warrant affidavit notes, were exclusively for communications between Rosen and his alleged source, not the wide net that the headlines would suggest. Apparently, those records included a phone call between the source and a phone number either located at, or billed to, Rosen’s parents’ address, which led many to declare that Baier was saying the Justice Department targeted James Rosen’s parents as well.

What Baier actually said (emphasis mine) was that “the seized toll records also relate to James’ parents’ home in Staten Island.”

Fox News and much of the mainstream media have gone out of their way to make the DOJ investigation of Rosen seem as abusive as possible, and an extension of the AP leak investigation story, but a cursory review of the government’s affidavit reveals that the DOJ developed probable cause to conduct a much narrower investigation of Rosen by first examining the alleged leaker’s emails, work phone records, and the State Department’s ID badge records. Much has been, and perhaps should be, made of the affidavit’s characterization of Rosen as “an aider and abettor and/or co-conspirator in the crime,” but since he has not been charged, it would appear the government was deploying that legal theory primarily to support searching Rosen’s emails, rather than voluntarily asking for them. -- mediate

and the Obama Administration even harassed his parents:

"The New Yorker's Ryan Lizza has uncovered more details about the Justice Dept.'s investigation into the former State Dept. contractor who is accused of leaking classified information to James Rosen, the Fox News reporter.

According to Lizza, the Justice Dept. also seized phone records of numbers associated with two White House staffers and at least five Fox News reporters.

"The document uncovered today suggests the government seized 'call detail' records from Rosen’s work and cell phones, which would show whom he called, who called him, how long they spoke, and the times of the calls," Lizza reports. "The document suggests that the government was seeking only the subscriber records for the two White House numbers targeted, information that a government source said would include the name of the official who used the specific line."

On Sunday, The Washington Post reported that the Justice Dept. had searched Rosen's personal e-mails and tracked his visits to the State Dept in 2009. The court affadavit described Rosen as “at the very least, either as an aider, abettor and/or co-conspirator" of his government source, presumably because he had solicited classified information from that source." -- politico
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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January 11th, 2017 at 2:31:24 PM permalink
duplicate deleted
ams288
ams288
Joined: Sep 26, 2012
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January 11th, 2017 at 2:55:07 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Obama just went after the voting public telling them to stop getting their information from Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.



That doesn't even come close to comparing to Donald's attacks on the media (just today).

So, in conclusion, Tom Brokaw was right and you were wrong.
"Trumped up trickle down" has an entire new meaning now, thanks to those Russian prostitutes...
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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January 11th, 2017 at 3:09:32 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I allow that I may be getting scammed, you allow that at times people really legitimately need the help and can then recover to self-sufficiency. I think there is a place for social agencies, you don't. And we're both partly right. And you do walk the walk; as you mentioned above, you are self-reliant to a fault (my opinion) but I admire you very much for it. I believe that if you have, and those you love don't, you share. I've paid a high price for that belief, and it still grieves me.

And to interject, since I look at the world as a probabilist, the distribution of societal outcomes is superior when you tilt the needle toward "more social spending, less likely for an individual to fail, more likely for an individual to scam the system" than "less social spending, more likely for an individual to fail, less likely for an individual to scam the system." It's never going to be black or white and there's no one-size-fits-all solution. We just need to find the strategy that optimizes EV. (Just...)

To use a forum-appropriate analogy, a casino's net profit is greater if it lets some card counters play than if it aggressively prevents all advantage play activity, because the organizational cost to prevent all AP activity is higher than the revenue saved by doing so. Similarly, though I recognize that not everyone agrees, I believe economic growth is greater if social benefits are calibrated more generously, even if it means more cheaters, because the economic cost of letting people fail is greater than the economic cost of letting people cheat. We're seeing that right now, where millions of less-than-successful citizens just elected a demagogue who promised them better times. Except Trump will move the needle in exactly the opposite direction. When someone is drowning, you don't start reeling in the life preserver and yell to them "sink or swim." If Obama deserves criticism, it's that he wasn't able to help those people in the time he had (and with the intransigent GOP Congress he had). But it's easy to say "Obama failed, let's do it the other way" and elect Trump, and that's what happened. That was the wrong answer and we know where that will end up. The right answer was "Obama failed to finish the job, let's keep going."

If GOP policies accelerate the wealth gap, as they seem destined to do, then the bloom will shortly be off Trump's rose.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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January 11th, 2017 at 3:12:46 PM permalink
Trump answered more questions in his 42min
presser today than Obama answered in his
90min presser last month. Obama is love
with the sound of his own voice, brevity is
not a word he understands. Trump is a
straight talker, he gets to the point. When
Obama answers a question, he jumps in
a glider and soars around in the clouds
and might get to a point, but probably not.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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