Greasyjohn
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March 10th, 2015 at 12:55:39 PM permalink
I was just wondering. It seems to me that you should be able to raise your IQ by about 20 points if you are familiar with how questions are asked and formatted. It would also be important to have a knowledge of prime numbers, progressions and such. For instance, if you ask the question: "Sally likes 144 but not 145. She likes 400 but not 500. Which of the two would she like?: A) 1600 B) 1700." If you weren't familiar with numbers that have a square root that is a whole number you wouldn't be able to figure out what the question is getting at.

Another example, I know a girl that is very clever. Her responses to questions are sometimes devastatingly witty. But she didn't care much for math. I'm almost positive she wouldn't know what a prime number is. She would not do well on an IQ test because there are math questions. In other words, it takes a good education to do well on an IQ test. Take 1,1,2,3,5,8,13. What is the next number in the sequence? It's 21. But if you asked someone who had no interest in math, they wouldn't know. I know, because I've seen this type of question, and similar ones, on IQ tests.

Take the question: "If all Bloops are Razzies and all Razzies are Lazzies, all bloops are definitely Lazzies?" The way I would approach this is to find substitutes that make sense. For example: If all women are human, and all humans are two-eyed creatures, then all women are definitely two-eyed creatures. So the answer is True. I can't remember how I figured this out, but I might have been given an example when I got my results from one of the many free IQ tests I've taken online. I'm sure that someone unfamiliar with these types of questions would be scratching their heads. But someone familiar with these types of questions would have a ready list of substitutes to plug in.

Look at the numbers in this sequence: 2,3,6,7,8,14,15,30. Which one of the numbers does not belong in the sequence? The answer is 8. I don't know why it's so (I looked up he answer). The only thing I can come up with is: even, odd, even, odd,even, odd even. I gave it a few minutes and finally stumbled on my conclusion (once I knew the answer), but I don't know if there's a more substantial explanation. Once the answer is explained to me I could use that type of logic to figure out similar questions on IQ tests.

So let's say you took an IQ test having never seen one before. Do you think you can increase your future results on IQ tests if you familiarized yourself with the types of questions asked? I do.
RS
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:12:35 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I was just wondering. It seems to me that you should be able to raise your IQ by about 20 points if you are familiar with how questions are asked and formatted. It would also be important to have a knowledge of prime numbers, progressions and such. For instance, if you ask the question: "Sally likes 144 but not 145. She likes 400 but not 500. Which of the two would she like?: A) 1600 B) 1700." If you weren't familiar with numbers that have a square root that is a whole number you wouldn't be able to figure out what the question is getting at.

Another example, I know a girl that is very clever. Her responses to questions are sometimes devastatingly witty. But she didn't care much for math. I'm almost positive she wouldn't know what a prime number is. She would not do well on an IQ test because there are math questions. In other words, it takes an good education to do well on an IQ test. Take 1,1,2,3,5,8,13. What is the next number in the sequence? It's 21. But if you asked someone who had no interest in math, they wouldn't know. I know, because I've seen this type of question, and similar ones, on IQ tests.

Take the question: "If all Bloops are Razzies and all Razzies are Lazzies, all bloops are definitely Lazzies?" The way I would approach this is to find substitutes that make sense. For example: If all women are human, and all humans are two-eyed creatures, then all women are definitely two-eyed creatures. So the answer is True. I can't remember how I figured this out, but I might have been given an example when I got my results from one of the many free IQ tests I've taken online. I'm sure that someone unfamiliar with these types of questions would be scratching their heads. But someone familiar with these types of questions would have a ready list of substitutes to plug into.

Look at the numbers in this sequence: 2,3,6,7,8,14,15,30. Which one of the numbers does not belong in the sequence? The answer is 8. I don't know why it's so (I looked up he answer). The only thing I can come up with is: even, odd, even, odd, odd, even, odd even. I gave it a few minutes and finally stumbled on my conclusion, but I don't know if there's a more substantial explanation. Once the answer is explained to me I could use that type of logic to figure out similar questions on IQ tests.

So let's say you took an IQ test having never seen one before. Do you think you can increase your future results on IQ tests, if you familiarized yourself with the types of questions asked? I do.



2 things piss me off more than all hell:

1) Using "an" instead of "a".
2) Using "whom" incorrectly. [I don't think you did this.]

The problem with interchanging things into the 'formula' is you can get all true individual statements, but a false conclusion. Example:

"If some girls are blonde and all blondes are females, then all girls are females" is not logically valid, even though each individual statement is true, the entire thing (put together) is not true.



Most of IQ tests is just logic. It shows you a black square is like a white circle, therefore a cockroach is like a A) Star, B) Dirt, C) TV, D) #24. Ok, maybe not that f*****d up, but still, weird questions.

Of course, taking tests and familiarizing yourself with them will increase your score. That doesn't mean you're any smarter, just means you're able to practice. You can become a good speller (spelling words, like spelling bees) if you memorize a bunch of words, but you can be an excellent speller if you learn Greek & Latin.


I've always enjoyed taking IQ tests, even if it was online and wasn't "legitimate", who cares, I found them fun. Then again, sometimes I'll test my WPM (Words Per Minute [typing on a keyboard]) on an online program.
Canyonero
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:14:39 PM permalink
Short answer: yes, there is definitely a "training effect" on most IQ tests.

Don't assume though that internet IQ tests are representative of professional ones. The type of task you mention is a part of some IQ tests, not all, and it is only a small part. But, with everything else being equal, if you are bad with numbers, your IQ score will be lower compared to someone who is good with numbers - as it should be.

One theory why the population in western countries over the last decades has been doing better in IQ tests (Flynn effect) is that we are more familiar with the types of tasks presented because of exposure in traditional media and the internet.

btw, the logic for 2,3,6,7,14,15,30 is: add 1, multiply by 2, repeat
CrystalMath
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:21:02 PM permalink
The next prime number is actually 17 and 21 is not prime.
I heart Crystal Math.
RS
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:25:27 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

The next prime number is actually 17 and 21 is not prime.



The sequence is not of prime numbers, but the Fibonacci Sequence:

F(N) = F(N-1) + F(N-2)
F(1) = F(2) = 1
Greasyjohn
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:29:38 PM permalink
Did I do this, I reread it and didn't see it.

1) Using "an" instead of "a".
2) Using "whom" incorrectly. [I don't think you did this.]
CrystalMath
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:30:11 PM permalink
Quote: RS

The sequence is not of prime numbers, but the Fibonacci Sequence:

F(N) = F(N-1) + F(N-2)
F(1) = F(2) = 1



Oops. I make stupid errors and then realize I should slow down. Clearly 8 is not prime, so I don't know what I saw the first time.
I heart Crystal Math.
rudeboyoi
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:36:27 PM permalink
A baloo is a bear.
RS
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:37:43 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

Did I do this, I reread it and didn't see it.

1) Using "an" instead of "a".
2) Using "whom" incorrectly. [I don't think you did this.]



Aqui: [Here:]

Quote:

In other words, it takes an good education to do well on an IQ test.




I don't think it was you, perhaps baccaratfrom1776, keeps writing "whom". And GWAE has something wrong with his shift button / capitalization technique.




All Bloops are Razzies.
All Razzies are Lazzies.
Therefore all Bloops are Lazzies.

B->R, R->L, :. B->L

Makes sense.

But if you wrote it the other way around, let us say, B->R, R->L, therefore L->B [where B is bloops, R is razzies, L is lazzies]. Well that's not necessarily true. Perhaps some Lazzies aren't Bloops. They could be dingleberries instead. Let's replace with:

All Tigers are Cats
All Cats are Ferocious
Therefore all ferocious animals are tigers

We see, obviously, that isn't true. But what if we replaced it with something that makes it a little confusing, let's say:


All nippled animals can be milked
All milkable animals have fur
Therefore all animals with fur have nipples.

I'm bad with examples but you get the point.
Face
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March 10th, 2015 at 1:54:41 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

A baloo is a bear.



Baloo is a bear. "A baloo" doesn't exist.

Balut is boiled duck embryo.

A ballute is a retarding parachute for low level bomb release.

99 Luftballons Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont
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beachbumbabs
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March 10th, 2015 at 2:12:20 PM permalink
2,3,6,7,8,14,15,30
2*3 = 6. The next whole number after 6 is 7.
2*7 = 14. The next whole number after 14 is 15.
2*15 = 30. The 8 did not belong in that sequence, but the rest did.
The next numbers, if I'm using the correct analysis, would be 31, 62, 63, 126....

At least that's what I saw.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AZDuffman
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March 10th, 2015 at 2:14:33 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I was just wondering. It seems to me that you should be able to raise your IQ by about 20 points if you are familiar with how questions are asked and formatted. It would also be important to have a knowledge of prime numbers, progressions and such. For instance, if you ask the question: "Sally likes 144 but not 145. She likes 400 but not 500. Which of the two would she like?: A) 1600 B) 1700." If you weren't familiar with numbers that have a square root that is a whole number you wouldn't be able to figure out what the question is getting at.



True, but understanding what the question is getting at is part of having a higher IQ.

I've had more than one time in my life where I "passed" a test because I figured it out. However, the fact that I figured it out means that I could probably figure out whatever the testing institution was going to need me to do.

For years the SAT has been criticized because it somehow "discriminates" and if you know how to take it you will do better. But the thing is, figuring out how to do something like take a test is a pretty good predictor that you will figure out what is needed in college and life.

Back to the subject of the former. As a new hire I once passed because I figured out the system. Guess what? A month later I was figuring out missing paperwork, once showing no less than 3 supervisors what was missing on a form (the date had no year.) Moral is you need those kind of folks because they can figure how to do the job.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
RS
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March 10th, 2015 at 2:29:27 PM permalink
Wow, I didn't get the 2,3,6,7,8,15,30 correct. Usually (I think) I feel like I can get them right. But lots of times, I get stuck, trying to figure out how one relates to the next. Which was good until I got from the 7-8 one, then I couldn't figure it out. I guess in a way I was right, but not exactly. :(

Quote: AZDuffman

True, but understanding what the question is getting at is part of having a higher IQ.

I've had more than one time in my life where I "passed" a test because I figured it out. However, the fact that I figured it out means that I could probably figure out whatever the testing institution was going to need me to do.

For years the SAT has been criticized because it somehow "discriminates" and if you know how to take it you will do better. But the thing is, figuring out how to do something like take a test is a pretty good predictor that you will figure out what is needed in college and life.

Back to the subject of the former. As a new hire I once passed because I figured out the system. Guess what? A month later I was figuring out missing paperwork, once showing no less than 3 supervisors what was missing on a form (the date had no year.) Moral is you need those kind of folks because they can figure how to do the job.



100% agree.

IMO, a lot of what we learn in elementary through high school isn't just "learning the material", but rather, it's "learning how to learn".
Gabes22
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March 10th, 2015 at 2:32:38 PM permalink
Personally, I never learned how to study. I could learn all I needed to know to ace test just by paying attention in class. I never took notes, never read a book I was assigned in school and never studied for a test in my life. Unfortunately, as an adult, you have to do things a little more independently.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
Minty
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March 10th, 2015 at 2:59:58 PM permalink
Yes, a person can raise their score on these tests. The Flynn effect has already been referenced and indicates this. Additionally it's important to consider that not all IQ tests are IQ. A person who takes the Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale may score differently on the Stanford-Binet IQ test. Genetics give us our upper and lower limit for intelligence, but environment is that determines where we end up. Using tests to discern who proceeds and who doesn't is pretty common in our society. There's the SAT, ACT, LSAT, GRE, OAT and so many more. There're tests to determine who gets jobs too. I'm actually writing a thesis on the topic and am very interested in it.
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Kerkebet
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March 10th, 2015 at 4:04:22 PM permalink
Quote: Minty

Yes, a person can raise their score on these tests.


I think actual genius has more to do with "proofs without words". Ie, working back from intuitively great guesses while working forward to the unobvious.

Eg, at the bottom of the page, http://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/Stephen_L40326._Snover.pdf .

Further egs, https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-CA&q=math+proof+without+words&gbv=2&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=BHH_VJn0EYX8UOiNhKgL&ved=0CB8QsAQ&tbm=isch

In this sense, a genius, at least, wouldn't be overly interested in trying to define it. It's not about a bunch of words or specific snippets of math, or other forms of development. After all, you're only as good as your last significant realization.
Nonsense is a very hard thing to keep up. Just ask the Wizard and company.
RS
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March 10th, 2015 at 4:29:44 PM permalink
Proof without words -- cool.

The proofs I hated were the complicated, "If...then...else...." etc. where you gotta read it and interpret WTF is going on. I liked the ones where there's a picture and you're like, "Oh ok, that's how that works."

Pythagorean Theorem:





What's even more amazing, is lots of weird mathematics was figured out long long time ago, before calculators and whatnot. Didn't Michaelangelo or one of those dudes prove the earth was round and also calculated the circumference of the earth, by digging a hole in the ground, putting a stick in the hole, record the shadows, then from there was like, "Yup, Earth is round, it's like 40,000 Km in circumference." ?

edit: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/09/21/who-discovered-the-earth-is-ro/ it was Eratosthenes of Cyrene.
Minty
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March 10th, 2015 at 4:30:51 PM permalink
Quote: Kerkebet

I think actual genius has more to do with "proofs without words". Ie, working back from intuitively great guesses while working forward to the unobvious.

Eg, at the bottom of the page, http://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/Stephen_L40326._Snover.pdf .

Further egs, https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-CA&q=math+proof+without+words&gbv=2&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=BHH_VJn0EYX8UOiNhKgL&ved=0CB8QsAQ&tbm=isch

In this sense, a genius, at least, wouldn't be overly interested in trying to define it. It's not about a bunch of words or specific snippets of math, or other forms of development. After all, you're only as good as your last significant realization.


That makes sense. It gets me thinking though; what about the incredibly intelligent people that aren't interested in proofs and mathematics?
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Greasyjohn
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March 10th, 2015 at 4:59:27 PM permalink
RS, "It takes an good education..." Total typo.

All Parisians are French. All French are Europeans, so all Parisians are Europeans. True.
Greasyjohn
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March 10th, 2015 at 5:10:13 PM permalink
Quote: RS

Proof without words -- cool.

The proofs I hated were the complicated, "If...then...else...." etc. where you gotta read it and interpret WTF is going on. I liked the ones where there's a picture and you're like, "Oh ok, that's how that works."

Pythagorean Theorem:





What's even more amazing, is lots of weird mathematics was figured out long long time ago, before calculators and whatnot. Didn't Michaelangelo or one of those dudes prove the earth was round and also calculated the circumference of the earth, by digging a hole in the ground, putting a stick in the hole, record the shadows, then from there was like, "Yup, Earth is round, it's like 40,000 Km in circumference." ?

edit: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/09/21/who-discovered-the-earth-is-ro/ it was Eratosthenes of Cyrene.



Eartosthenese discovered, or proved, the earth was round about 200 BC. He figured out the circumference too. Edit: I saw your link but didn't see where you mentioned Eratosthenese after it.
RS
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March 10th, 2015 at 8:32:56 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

RS, "It takes an good education..." Total typo.

All Parisians are French. All French are Europeans, so all Parisians are Europeans. True.



Yes, that is true. But the other way around (all Europeans are Parisians) isn't true, logically.

My point is, if you replace the words with familiar things, it can cause you to be incorrect.

It isn't so important with that kind of question. It's much more important with "if A or B then C and D, if A nor C then B and D, therefore...".
Greasyjohn
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March 12th, 2015 at 5:05:24 PM permalink
I've done a lot of reading about IQ tests but don't understand this: In practical every day life, what are some examples of things that people with an IQ of, say, 160 could do or comprehend that a person with an IQ of 100 couldn't?
Gabes22
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March 12th, 2015 at 5:10:09 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I've done a lot of reading about IQ tests but don't understand this: In practical every day life, what are some examples of things that people with an IQ of, say, 160 could do or comprehend that a person with an IQ of 100 couldn't?



That's kind of a loaded question. You could find scores of things that a typical 160 IQ person could do, but it definitely wouldn't be universal. For instance, men are generally better athletes than women, but you could find individual women that are more athletic than their male counterparts. From what I gather IQ is a measure of what your mind is capable of, whether or not you realize or maximize that potential is completely up to you.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
Greasyjohn
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March 12th, 2015 at 5:18:02 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I've done a lot of reading about IQ tests but don't understand this: In practical every day life, what are some examples of things that people with an IQ of, say, 160 could do or comprehend that a person with an IQ of 100 couldn't?



Thanks Gabes22.

I just thought of something. Remember that game that is round like a dinner plate with four colored sections, I believe red, green, blue and white. If you hit, say, the white button it will make a distinctive noise as it lights up. Then your opponent has to hit white and then any other color. Then you have to hit white then the color your opponent hit and then your next choice. And you go back and forth until one of you forgets the progression. Is this the type of thing that someone with an IQ of 160 would excel at?
rudeboyoi
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March 12th, 2015 at 5:27:03 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

Thanks Gabes22.

I just thought of something. Remember that game that is round like a dinner plate with four colored sections, I believe red, green, blue and white. If you hit, say, the white button it will make a distinctive noise as it lights up. Then your opponent has to hit white and then any other color. Then you have to hit white then the color your opponent hit and then your next choice. And you go back and forth until one of you forgets the progression. Is this the type of thing that someone with an IQ of 160 would excel at?



Simon
Greasyjohn
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March 12th, 2015 at 5:35:48 PM permalink
Thanks. Seems like getting past about 10 or 12 would be very difficult. But if your IQ was 190 then what?
rudeboyoi
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March 12th, 2015 at 5:40:56 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

Thanks. Seems like getting past about 10 or 12 would be very difficult. But if your IQ was 190 then what?



Someone should bring one to a future WoV event. Should make for some fun prop bets.
EvenBob
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March 12th, 2015 at 6:58:28 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

In practical every day life, what are some examples of things that people with an IQ of, say, 160 could do or comprehend that a person with an IQ of 100 couldn't?



They can read and comprehend directions better.
They are often better organized, and use their
time better. Multi-tasking is easier for them.
They can read a book in a few hours, if they're
into reading. I dated a girl with a high IQ and
she read constantly, and fast. It was quite
disconcerting, she would trade in the old books
and come out with a box of ones she hadn't read.
Every week. She had two things she loved to
do. Read and have sex. Problem was, I wasn't
involved in either activity, she treated me like
I wasn't there. So I dumped her. Maybe she
didn't care, I never asked her.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
tongni
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March 12th, 2015 at 7:35:56 PM permalink
I think in general, they will be faster to solve problems. Also, I think they are superior at predicting what will happen in the future given current information. An example:

A stoplight flashes red seven times. The next time it flashes, it's most likely to be red again.

You see a man walking towards his car. The next thing he's likely to do is reach into his pocket.

Simple, right?

You walk into a casino, of which you have played at at the sister property two hundred miles away. There, you were rated and played until you received significant heat, then left. They use VeriDocs at the door. You sit down and buy in for $500. The phone rings after ten minutes when you start ramping your bet. The pit supervisor stands very still when talking. He makes a round of the pit and stops at your table. He furrows his brow when you stand on 16vT.

What percentage of the time was the phone call about you? If you had to assign a percentage of the time that you are experiencing no heat, moderate heat, or have been made, how would you break it down? What is the best decision if it's heavily weighted towards the middle? The latter? I think you'll find that people come to vastly different conclusions based on the same information - some of it is bias from previous experiences (or lack thereof), some of it is cultural, and some of it is intelligence.

The brain is a big computer. Is memory important to intelligence? I think so, in the same way that more RAM makes a computer handle certain tasks faster. Can you be a genius with a bad memory? In my opinion, yes. I see IQ as a measure of computational speed and power. If you have a complex problem that has hundreds of variables (like determining heat level in a casino), someone with high IQ will be able to assign weights to all the pieces of data and come to the correct conclusion. Someone with a lower IQ will simplify the problem and disregard many pieces of data to arrive at their conclusion - phone rang, pit is looking at me, time to go.
RS
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March 12th, 2015 at 7:37:26 PM permalink
Let's say you have some big fragile thing that you want to get up a flight of stairs. The high IQ guy will figure something out and how to get it up, while the lower IQ guy may try to force it up , pick it up, or devise a bad plan.

I'd imagine a brilliant person would have pretty good navigational skills. Say, somewhere they are fairly new to, but have some experience navigating around.
Greasyjohn
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March 12th, 2015 at 8:19:53 PM permalink
I'm pretty good at direction. And I always get a kick out of it when I'm talking to someone, say, in their house, and they talk about an old house they lived in a city not far away, and as they mention it they point towards the neighborhood, and they're actually pointing in the right direction.

And I'd like to mention that I find smart girls very interesting (but if they're egotistical it's a big turn off. I once knew a girl that got her Ph.D in psychology. I get the feeling that as soon as she knew that her doctorate was imminent she probably ordered new check so that she could have her designation on them--probably introduces herself as Dr....).
98Clubs
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March 12th, 2015 at 8:21:38 PM permalink
One of the great mathematical stories involves Fermat's Last Theorem. Perhaps this is a step above say IQ200, or maybe IQ is reletive among peers. I've always thought the latter, more or less akin to classes in Society.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
MrV
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March 12th, 2015 at 8:30:19 PM permalink
Chris Langan: the man with 200 IQ
"What, me worry?"
Greasyjohn
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March 12th, 2015 at 8:31:16 PM permalink
Kim Ung-Yong

Fluent in 4 languages at age 2. Working on his Ph.D at NASA at age 8. IQ 210
rudeboyoi
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March 12th, 2015 at 8:41:42 PM permalink
Quote: 98Clubs

One of the great mathematical stories involves Fermat's Last Theorem. Perhaps this is a step above say IQ200, or maybe IQ is reletive among peers. I've always thought the latter, more or less akin to classes in Society.



In quite a few Simpsons episodes you will find some near misses to his theorem. Interestingly enough a lot of writers on the show were mathematicians.
MrV
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March 12th, 2015 at 8:56:02 PM permalink
I hadn't heard of Chris Langan before.

This guy is NOT what I expected to find in an ultra-high IQ individual.

Earthy, no airs, not effete at all.

I just watched this : wow.

He just nails it.

For example, he says that high intelligence "enables you to hold many things in your mind simultaneously, and all their relationships."

Stunning clarity of thought, and the ability to articulately express himself.
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Minty
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March 12th, 2015 at 9:17:35 PM permalink
That was an intriguing video, thanks. It's really hard to determine what an IQ of over about 160 means. At that point the tests aren't really reliable and those instances are so rare that we don't really have much information on the topic. Another thing to consider is how many different ways intelligence can be measured. Some theories suggest intelligence is just a few things, and others suggest it is over 100. I like models that account for diverse skills. There's a Triarchic model (I could be getting the name wrong) and it states that there is analytical, creative and practical intelligence. That one is intuitively appealing to me.
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RS
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March 13th, 2015 at 4:50:37 AM permalink
Quote: Minty

That was an intriguing video, thanks. It's really hard to determine what an IQ of over about 160 means. At that point the tests aren't really reliable and those instances are so rare that we don't really have much information on the topic.



Indeed. It's like trying to study or research something you have no idea about and cannot comprehend what it'd be like. I don't think an average or slightly above-average person would be able to (properly) study/research what actually takes place in a genius's mind. It'd be like trying to imagine colors that we cannot see.

Quote: Minty

Another thing to consider is how many different ways intelligence can be measured. Some theories suggest intelligence is just a few things, and others suggest it is over 100. I like models that account for diverse skills. There's a Triarchic model (I could be getting the name wrong) and it states that there is analytical, creative and practical intelligence. That one is intuitively appealing to me.



I was just thinking about this the other day, for some reason. Well, not this in particular, but, some of the amazing things our brains are capable of doing.

For instance, if you're throwing a football to someone who is running full-speed, how does your brain figure out where to throw the ball? Surely, you can do a math problem on paper and figure out the runner's speed, the distance, how far to throw the ball, how long it'll be in the air and how far the runner will travel during that time. It's hard enough to do on paper, but your brain can figure it out instantly.

The same for when someone throws a ball towards you and you have to move to catch it. It doesn't take a few seconds to process it, "Oh it's gonna land over there, I'mma move there now". As soon as the ball is released from the person's hand, you can pretty quickly and fairly accurately determine where it's going to land. Or a batter (baseball) -- I don't remember how much time he has to react, but it's some crazy tiny number, like a tenth of a second, between seeing the ball leave the pitcher's hand, before he starts swinging the bat. Imagine that! The ball is just a few feet out of the pitcher's hand, and the batter has already determined if it's a ball he should swing at or shouldn't swing at. [Not including stuff like curveballs/change-ups/knuckle balls/etc.]

And that's just one tiny part of "intelligence". Not to mention, all sorts of other things. I've never figured out how people can MAKE music. Like they just start writing down notes on a piece of paper and say, "Yeah, this'll sound bad*ss!" Or people who can paint really well -- I could barely do the pencil-shading-thing in high school art....oh God was that awful! Or cooking -- I can't even microwave a 60-second pizza without destroying the kitchen [don't ask], but then again, when growing up, we never really cooked at home -- always went out to a restaurant to eat dinner. Eating at home meant we called for pizza delivery, brought food home from panda express or that other asian place (pickup stix?), or placed an order for pickup/to-go at that one Italian place that I never liked.
pew
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March 13th, 2015 at 6:21:01 AM permalink
Sally likes 144 but not 145. She likes 400 but not 500. Which of the two would she like?: A) 1600 B) 1700." I thought she liked the lower of any two numbers. To me intelligence is seeing and understanding relationships between things. Some people just don't "get it", can't see the link or lack thereof. Dumb people just don't think about a lot of stuff and are not engaged in much.
pew
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March 13th, 2015 at 6:24:02 AM permalink
I've always been amazed how you can get into any car of any physical size and know almost exactly how close you are to other cars and objects. Good thing.
Dalex64
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March 13th, 2015 at 6:47:07 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

For example, he says that high intelligence "enables you to hold many things in your mind simultaneously, and all their relationships."



Good statement. I know some people who have a high IQ, and this describes them. I was going to say something earlier, but hadn't yet been able to come up with a way to say it so succinctly.
Greasyjohn
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March 13th, 2015 at 7:44:19 AM permalink
On YouTube there are lots of videos about kids that can read at 18 months old.
rxwine
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March 13th, 2015 at 10:23:33 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I've done a lot of reading about IQ tests but don't understand this: In practical every day life, what are some examples of things that people with an IQ of, say, 160 could do or comprehend that a person with an IQ of 100 couldn't?



Perhaps it's more interesting to compare a very young child genius against other children.

The "IQ" ability is already there, without (one would suppose) any real training. One child can do age appropriate learning; the other is already into high school books or beyond.

But both children are limited in actual life experiences.
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Warrior77
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March 13th, 2015 at 10:34:43 AM permalink
People with higher IQ learn and adapt much faster than those with lower IQ.
Something that would take the "average person" 3hours to learn and comprehend would take a higher IQ person 1/3 the time.

After teaching for many years this is obvious. Lower IQ people give up much more frequently when presented with a new
situation to which they must adapt.
Kerkebet
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March 13th, 2015 at 12:08:24 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

For example, he says that high intelligence "enables you to hold many things in your mind simultaneously, and all their relationships."


More or less the same was said of Einstein's General Relativity just before he published it by, if I recall, Indian physicist Satyendra Nath Bose. Also Einstein remarked that "garbage can" trivia ought to remain in the libraries.

I agree with Langan about the universe not wasting anything. But disagree with him about some of it having lesser or shallower meaning.

Everything evens out because the numbers must do so by definition. And, everything is based on the numbers, even knowledge.

So, you need to find the right amount of smartness (on paper) to not find yourself being evened out, ie, lose sight of yourself on the other side.

Sort of like, the best way to see yourself is also the best way to see others... to not be someone in particular (at some other extreme).
Nonsense is a very hard thing to keep up. Just ask the Wizard and company.
MangoJ
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March 14th, 2015 at 5:50:08 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I was just wondering.


Curiosity should drive us all. I think intelligent people are just better in dividing information into relevant or irrelevant.

I would not consider myself pretty intelligent, but I could instantly answer all your posed questions, before reading the answer later on the line.

Here is my original thought process, basically simultaneous while reading the question.
Quote:

For instance, if you ask the question: "Sally likes 144 but not 145.


"In reality numbers are basically irrelevant and quantivy anything has no special meaning at all (besides simple ones like 0,1,pi, but these come from geometry).
Anyway, this is a IQ test, and they won't ask about irrelevant numbers.
First to note, 144 is square of 12, and 145 is not a square, but is close to the previous one. Since Sally prevers one over the other, she probably likes the squared one."

Quote:

She likes 400 but not 500.


"Most people would like 500 for whatever reason, maybe because most people like 1000 (and 500 is half of it). But Sally probably likes square numbers, and 400 (20^2) is again a square number, while 500 is not. So Sally will *most* probably prever square numbers."

Quote:

Which of the two would she like?: A) 1600 B) 1700."


"1600 is a square number (40^2), while 1700 is not. Answer (A) seems good enough a reason for me, and I don't care if I oversaw anything, and better move to the next question - time efficiency is part of the IQ test."

Note that 1600 and 400 are not particulary difficult square numbers. Everyone should know that 100 = 10^2, and 4=2^2 and 16=4^4. The question would be much more difficult if the clue woudl be 529 vs. 531.


Quote:

Take 1,1,2,3,5,8,13.


"Oh boy, some sequence stuff - it's all about guessing patterns. The beginning "1,1" looks strange, there might not be much information in it. Looking at the end I immediately see 5+8=13 and 3+5=8, this might be something to catch on. Again 2+3=5 amd 1+2=3 and 1+1=2. So next number is 8+13=21."

Of course this is Fibonacci sequence, but you don't need to know it to solve the answer.


Quote:

If all Bloops are Razzies and all Razzies are Lazzies, all bloops are definitely Lazzies?


"Well it was just said so, didn't it? What kind of silly question is this. All Bloops are Razzies, and all Razzies are Lazzies. So all Bloops are Razzies and additionally all are Lazzies. So yes, all Razzies are definitely Lazzies, what is this shit..."

No need to sustitute anything. All information is given in the question.

Quote:

Look at the numbers in this sequence: 2,3,6,7,8,14,15,30. Which one of the numbers does not belong in the sequence?


"Again a sequence, oh boy ... Ok 2,3 are two numbers following up, 6,7,8 are three numbers following up, 14,15 are two numbers following up.
So the number not belonging in it is either 6 or 8. If 6 is the false number, then the sequence has 3,7 and 8,14. This gives no immediate pattern.
If 8 is the false number, the sequence has 3,6 and 7,14, so the latter one is double the first one. So I will pick 8, ain't nobody have time for that ..."

And this was a split second after reading maybe till 30.

Quote:

The answer is 8. I don't know why it's so (I looked up he answer). The only thing I can come up with is: even, odd, even, odd,even, odd even.


It's a good start, trying those patterns you will instantly recognize.

Quote:

So let's say you took an IQ test having never seen one before. Do you think you can increase your future results on IQ tests if you familiarized yourself with the types of questions asked?



If you have never took an IQ test before, even if you never have seen one, you actually *do* have preparation time, and you should use it.
Under normal circumstances you do know you are participating in an IQ test - simply by the context of the situation. I hope you don't wonder how you ended up sitting at a desk with maybe other participants and are given sheets to fill out.

So what kind of test could it be ? What kind of questions you could expect ? This you can all figure out even in a few minutes waiting for the text to begin.
- It cannot not be an essay about a special topic, as nobody can grade with objectively. It cannot be questions about specific facts, this has nothing to do with intelligence.
- It should be in a format where an answer is either correct or incorrect. Maybe multiple choice, maybe something else.
- the test might most likely be about abstraction, logic, patterns.
- there might be questions about memory, i.e. there might be later questions which refer to earlier ones without being able to go back to them.
- it might be about your speed. There will be tons of questions no one is expecting you to solve them all.
- The test might try to map a huge bandwidth of whatever it is testing. Being an average guy, there will be questions remarkably silly, and questions remarkably hard to solve.Either way, you should probably don't want to waste your time on any of those. If you can't get the grasp of a question in a few seconds, don't waste your time and move on.

Quote:

I do.


I also do, but to a much less degree.
"training on similar questions" is such an obvious angle a well-designed test should compensate for, so that the result should be much less significant on previous training.
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pew
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March 14th, 2015 at 7:11:52 AM permalink
Ever see a non bias IQ test? It's got no words or numbers. Really interesting and hard, for me anyway.
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