Poll

5 votes (15.15%)
2 votes (6.06%)
18 votes (54.54%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (3.03%)
4 votes (12.12%)
6 votes (18.18%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (6.06%)
1 vote (3.03%)

33 members have voted

Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:30:45 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Thank you for your detailed post. A lot of your earlier posts seemed to imply you justify large tips because the employees need living type wages. I am just trying to understand if smaller tips are justified if someone would still be making middle class wages with the smaller tip percentage. In my example of the servers making $100k if the average person cut their tip from 18% to 10% the servers are still making near $65k per year in Las Vegas which would be considered an upper middle class income.



No problem for the lengthy post! If it's not lengthy...it's probably not one of my posts!

I don't know what is or isn't justified, that's the beauty of the tipping system, what you tip is based on whatever you think you are justified in tipping. I don't know how much better the service is at the super expensive restaurants because I don't go to those. I can't gauge the service at The Melting Pot because it is a very unique thing to begin with, he took time explaining how to properly cook the food. You usually don't cook your own food in a restaurant. Other than that, I felt like everything was the normal way things would be done.

With the super expensive restaurants, do they get that job because they are so good at what they do? Is the service really that much better? I don't see anything wrong with someone tipping what they think the service is worth, I mean, that's the idea. I like to tip the nice old ladies in diners such a high percentage (usually 100% if I am alone) because I know that most of the people who go to those are old guys who eat and then drink coffee for two hours and read the paper and then whatever the (literal) change is gets to be the tip.

Maybe I should get out of this percentage paradigm and just tip based on what I felt the service + time was worth. Maybe everyone should do that, just get out of the percentage paradigm. I like to tip buffet people at least 25% just because I don't know that they do any less overall work for me than a restaurant server. I mean, they take a drink order and then they clear my plates a bunch of times. They could be at my table several times in an hour, so they may not be taking anything other than a drink order, but they're doing more footwork. I also appreciate the used plates being taken away promptly because it makes it more pleasant.

I don't know, I guess that's my answer. I don't have anything on that, I'm sorry. I don't go to those because I do not want to tip 30% and I know that I will and I don't think any ONE meal has a value that high for the food or service. It's just negative value for me. It would be like asking me what a bank Loan Manager should get paid, I have no idea, I don't know anything about the banking industry.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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Thanks for this post from:
ZenKinG
July 17th, 2017 at 8:37:21 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

...As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.


Especially fighting Chinese rigged prison decks. 🤣
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
777
777
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:39:55 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: boymimbo

...As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.


Especially fighting Chinese rigged prison decks. 🤣



What are rigged prison decks? Is this an inside joke?
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:46:17 AM permalink
Quote: 777

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: boymimbo

...As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.


Especially fighting Chinese rigged prison decks. 🤣



What are rigged prison decks? Is this an inside joke?


Yes. You're about a month behind on that one. Read through ZK's D Day thread.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:53:38 AM permalink
Quote: 777

I don't think it will be the case, because we are not China or other countries where "slave" labor is the norm.

Their is nothing wrong with profiting, but it comes with a social responsibility. Your statement implies that employers are greedy have no moral/social responsibility, and it certainly gives ZK the ammunition to demand change to the tipped compensation system.



Your first line made me chuckle sardonically, I apologize for saying so. I've seen some stuff that you wouldn't believe in what you might consider, 'Normal,' jobs. You would hear the job title and think, "Oh, that's just an above board thing, nothing shady should go on there," unfortunately, that notion would be completely wrong.

I very much like my current employer (LCB) and they treat me unbelievably well. Other than delivering newspapers and bartending, LCB is the only employer I've ever truly liked. I've seen shady business practices and employee mistreatment at every employer besides LCB, the bar and delivering newspapers when I was a kid. We're talking about, 'Slave-type,' work, employee mistreatment, hazardous conditions, shady customer treatment, outright illegal practices and God knows what else. I've got some stories you wouldn't believe. 'Small businesses,' such as individual franchisees can be just as bad (or worse) than big corporations, I've worked for both.

I've got grocery store and distribution center stories that would make you puke. I pretend none of it ever happened or I wouldn't be able to shop, you should hear some of them.

Employers often ARE greedy and often HAVE NO social responsibility. Again, I have had three employers, lifetime, where I think everything that happens is correct and moral. I work for/with a bunch of terrific people here. I'm very lucky.

Other employers do shady practices and only care about the bottom line. I say that if direct wages go up then prices wlll go up because I am not blind to these sorts of things. The bottom line is often a slave unto itself, trust me. That's why individual people need to step up and compensate servers fairly and otherwise treat employees at places well. We should tip when it is called for, we should clean up after ourselves as best we can and we should not be difficult or rude to non-tipped service employees for any reason whatsoever. I've been, 'Behind the scenes,' and most of these jobs are total crap shows.

Here, read what some idiot wrote:

http://www.mommyshorts.com/2011/06/5-strategies-for-servers-with-small-children-at-the-table.html

That article discusses how a server should handle dealing with kids being around. It gives a bunch of, 'Suggestions,' for what the servers can do to make the experience easier. You really should read it. Here's a piece of wisdom #4:

Quote:

When you notice that most plates are empty, or food is being sculpted into zoo animals by bored little fingers, make haste with the check. Chances are one of the parents is drunk, and the other is now outnumbered by the children who, having eaten, are growing increasingly restless. Meltdowns are looming and the busboy will appreciate your promptness.



The server has other tables, the server may have other stuff to do. Should the server really sacrifice the service of other tables because your kids are morons!?

Also, why should one of the parents be drunk? Who the Hell goes to a restaurant and kids trashed with their kids in tow? What the Hell sort of world was I born into? Who gives a sweet fornication if the other parent is outnumbered!? Tell the first parent not to drink, and you won't be outnumbered!!!

These are the sort of expectations some people have, you should read the other four, they are all equally or more ridiculous.

Here's a Better Idea

RAISE KIDS WHO ARE NOT FRIGGIN' IDIOTS!!!

I've been taking my oldest (of two) to restaurants since he was three years old and neither of my kids have ever touched anything they weren't supposed to, played with their food, required any distraction or ever spilled anything...but the last one is probably just Variance. My son broke a glass once as we were leaving, but that's just because his jacket caught it and swept it off the table when he was getting up, that could happen to an adult. Either way, now I make him take his jacket off before sitting down and he cannot put it on until we are a few steps from the table.

I mean, just raise well-behaved children. It's not hard. If I can do it, anybody can. You just have to have punishments for ill behavior, make sure the punishments are understood BEFORE the ill behavior has an opportunity to take place and then follow through with them if said ill-behavior happens. Not difficult. Rewards are also terrific for better-than-expected behavior, my entire parenting system is largely reward-based.

But, is it the server's job to entertain my kids? No. Shut up, lady. You're ridiculous. She probably tips, like, 5% too.
Vultures can't be choosers.
RS
RS
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July 17th, 2017 at 9:03:09 AM permalink
Dealers are already making base wages of minimum wage, about $8/hour. Have fun trying to find a dealer who's going to work for $8/hour without tips.

The other side of it is this -- some people like tipping. It's not fair to someone to not be able to tip if they really want to, in a service where tipping has already been widely accepted.

Quote: Mission146

With the super expensive restaurants, do they get that job because they are so good at what they do? Is the service really that much better? I don't see anything wrong with someone tipping what they think the service is worth, I mean, that's the idea. I like to tip the nice old ladies in diners such a high percentage (usually 100% if I am alone) because I know that most of the people who go to those are old guys who eat and then drink coffee for two hours and read the paper and then whatever the (literal) change is gets to be the tip.

Maybe I should get out of this percentage paradigm and just tip based on what I felt the service + time was worth. Maybe everyone should do that, just get out of the percentage paradigm. I like to tip buffet people at least 25% just because I don't know that they do any less overall work for me than a restaurant server. I mean, they take a drink order and then they clear my plates a bunch of times. They could be at my table several times in an hour, so they may not be taking anything other than a drink order, but they're doing more footwork. I also appreciate the used plates being taken away promptly because it makes it more pleasant.

I don't know, I guess that's my answer. I don't have anything on that, I'm sorry. I don't go to those because I do not want to tip 30% and I know that I will and I don't think any ONE meal has a value that high for the food or service. It's just negative value for me. It would be like asking me what a bank Loan Manager should get paid, I have no idea, I don't know anything about the banking industry.


IMO.....it should be in the range of 15-25%. For expensive meals, tip towards the lower end....for expensive meals, tip towards the higher end. I'm not going to get a $10 meal at Denny's (or however much it costs) and leave a $2 tip. Probably at least $3-4.

That being said, in my experience at least, I've absolutely gotten much better service at more expensive restaurants than cheaper restaurants (on average). Yes, they do the same things at both, but they are done better at nicer restaurants. Go to one of the cafes at a Stations casino or a Denny's.....you'll get your food, 10 seconds later the waiter will come back and ask how everything is, then he'll be gone until he comes back with the check. At nicer restaurants, they'll come by periodically for refills or they'll just come by with another drink for you when you're halfway done with your current one without asking.

Buffets seem to have the worst service ever. Most places you don't order your drink when you're at the register -- and chances are, you'll be seated and either sit there and wait for someone to come by (seems like at least 5 minutes) before they take your drink order, then you can go get your food. Otherwise, you go get your food, come back, wait the same 5 minutes or so for your drink order to be taken, then they'll bring your drink several minutes later....meaning your first plate of food has been eaten without anything to drink. And chances are, it's going to be a real struggle to get a refill.

Of course -- the plates. It seems like most of the time after I get more food for round #2, I come back and my dirty plates are still there. If you're at a small table, like many buffets have, you don't have much room for your dirty plate, new plate of food, and hopefully your drink if you ever get one. Then your plates get cleared away as you're returning or shortly after you return from getting round #3. And no, I don't eat particularly fast, or fast at all for that matter.

So yeah, I don't feel bad for tipping $2-3/person at a buffet.

At the Paris buffet, we didn't get our drink order for like 10 minutes. A waiter walked by behind me, my friend was like, "Can I get a coke?" and waiter nodded and went off, I couldn't even turn around in time to order my drink. My friend finally got his drink and I ordered mine. Didn't get mine until meal was over, IIRC. Our plates never got cleared until the very end. It was pretty slow so we put our used plates on the table beside us....so it's not like the waiter forgot about us or was busy with a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, my friend tipped like $3....I said F this I ain't tipping. And as we left, I swooped up that $3 tip and gave it back to my friend after we left. That actually made me feel good, TBH.
"should of played 'Go Fish' today ya peasant" -typoontrav
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 9:04:34 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I think it makes sense to up minimum wages and remove a portion of the tipped compensation system to where a restaurant tipper can feel comfortable tipping 0 - 10% and the server is compensated. I never tip over 20% and almost never tip under 10%. Quite honestly, in many restaurants, I'll call ahead and do take out instead of sit-down because (a) I don't want to wait for my food (b) I don't want to tip.

As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.



It's actually expected to tip a few bucks on take-out if it is a sit down restaurant, but I have no idea why. It's not true for pizza, fast food or any other take-out (except maybe Chinese..they usually have a tip jar, anyway) but I guess it's supposed to happen. Is it because the hostess packages the stuff for you? I guess. The hostess is not a tip-based position, though. I'm sure I tipped, but I haven't done any carry-out in probably six or seven years. I prefer just to cook if I am going to do that, Houlihan's is the only restaurant I regularly go to that outclasses my cooking, anyway. You can ask TeddyS, he's had my food.

If you partially raise wages on direct, then you'll see a partial price increase or partial service reduction. Probably. I don't see any increase in direct costs not being met by a comparable increase in prices, decrease in service/quality or a combination of the two. It just doesn't make business sense.

I'm perfectly fine with ZK doesn't tip dealers.
Vultures can't be choosers.
monet0412
monet0412
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July 17th, 2017 at 9:28:26 AM permalink
A few easy things to do at a buffet if you have some problems. Order a couple of extra drinks from the get go. I usually order two drinks per person. Order extra napkins from the get go. If you have a problem with a small table it isn't too difficult to put dirty dishes on another table that hasn't been bused yet. If you don't have all your silverware just swipe some from another table that isn't occupied. If you don't like the table they sat you at you can request another or just move. I've done that plenty. I haven't done this for years but if you take a backpack and some plastic containers... sit in a booth or in the back area. Get plate after plate of your favorite food and fill your containers up. After you leave get your food to your nearest refrigerator asap. The best tip that I have for buffets is make sure you have a VIP Pass or get in line right before they change the food or open or if possible get to the buffet during breakfast a few mins before the lunch change or lunch/dinner. That way your food is as fresh as possible. Getting to the buffet when it is about to close isn't as valuable as when it first opens.

Tipping at the Buffet is always less. The Buffet is one step up from the fast food places but at least they have better food. As I have stated before the argument is that the server only bring drinks and buses. Of course they do other work that we don't see.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 9:31:45 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Dealers are already making base wages of minimum wage, about $8/hour. Have fun trying to find a dealer who's going to work for $8/hour without tips.



Well, they make a lower base wage than most other staff and I would argue that they have the hardest job since slot techs don't have to heft bags of nickels, dimes and quarters, generally. That's not to say I know what a dealer should get paid, I don't, but I do know that the casinos would pay as little as they could get away with if you eliminate the tipping system...and dealers will make less than they did when they were tipped. Rules will also deteriorate further OR minimums will go up, either of those things are prices.

I would say that casinos would also schedule with an eye toward minimalism, so you're not as likely to find an empty or near empty table. I think that's especially true at the lower limits.

Eliminate tipping dealers and require more wages on direct and the dealers will lose, the players will lose and the casinos will at least break even. They hold all the cards (haha, weak pun). The casinos will probably find a way that they actually come out ahead, why take chances?

Quote:

The other side of it is this -- some people like tipping. It's not fair to someone to not be able to tip if they really want to, in a service where tipping has already been widely accepted.



I agree, and how am I going to go to a restaurant or play a casino game in a recreational way at -EV and not tip? So rude. "Oh, look at me, I have disposable income and you don't!" I have disposable income because I have been very fortunate in many ways. I'm not the most patriotic guy, but truth is, I was fortunate to be born an American as opposed to some third-world country. Denmark may have been a better draw, but I'm certainly not going to complain about being born an American. Probably fewer than five countries that I would have preferred had I been asked ahead of time.

Quote:

IMO.....it should be in the range of 15-25%. For expensive meals, tip towards the lower end....for expensive meals, tip towards the higher end. I'm not going to get a $10 meal at Denny's (or however much it costs) and leave a $2 tip. Probably at least $3-4.



I'm good with that. Nothing wrong with 15%. My understanding is 18% is standard now, but didn't it used to be 15%? I have no idea why the standard expectation needed to go up.

Quote:

That being said, in my experience at least, I've absolutely gotten much better service at more expensive restaurants than cheaper restaurants (on average). Yes, they do the same things at both, but they are done better at nicer restaurants. Go to one of the cafes at a Stations casino or a Denny's.....you'll get your food, 10 seconds later the waiter will come back and ask how everything is, then he'll be gone until he comes back with the check. At nicer restaurants, they'll come by periodically for refills or they'll just come by with another drink for you when you're halfway done with your current one without asking.



I expect them to come back with refills regardless of where I am at. If they don't, then they will see something in the neighborhood of 15-20%. I consider drinks an essential of, 'Average,' service and average service gets 30% from me. I have a very low opinion of Denny's, in general, but Bob Evans or Eat 'N Park are equivalents. I would say I usually get checked on twice after the entrees come out at those places. Maybe we just have good service, in general, in my area.

Quote:

Buffets seem to have the worst service ever. Most places you don't order your drink when you're at the register -- and chances are, you'll be seated and either sit there and wait for someone to come by (seems like at least 5 minutes) before they take your drink order, then you can go get your food. Otherwise, you go get your food, come back, wait the same 5 minutes or so for your drink order to be taken, then they'll bring your drink several minutes later....meaning your first plate of food has been eaten without anything to drink. And chances are, it's going to be a real struggle to get a refill.



Five minutes is not unreasonable. Given the low tipping percentage, one person is often given anywhere from 10-20 tables that they have to get drinks for and clear plates. Like I said, they do a ton of footwork. It would be better if the drink order is on the slip, but it's not the server's fault if a buffet doesn't do it that way.

When it comes to drinks, I really only hold them accountable for how long it takes AFTER they take the initial drink order. That should not take more than three or four minutes. Ideally, should be there or immediately on the way after I get my first plate of food. The very next thing they do after taking a drink order for a table is getting said drink order.

Was it Luxor that has the self-service beverages at the buffet? That's pretty cool. Luxor or Monte Carlo? Forget which.

Quote:

Of course -- the plates. It seems like most of the time after I get more food for round #2, I come back and my dirty plates are still there. If you're at a small table, like many buffets have, you don't have much room for your dirty plate, new plate of food, and hopefully your drink if you ever get one. Then your plates get cleared away as you're returning or shortly after you return from getting round #3. And no, I don't eat particularly fast, or fast at all for that matter.



I just put them on an unused table if there is no room!

Quote:

So yeah, I don't feel bad for tipping $2-3/person at a buffet.



At most non-casino buffets, that's probably about 25%. I know that's 25% of most Chinese buffets even after drink and tax.

Quote:

At the Paris buffet, we didn't get our drink order for like 10 minutes. A waiter walked by behind me, my friend was like, "Can I get a coke?" and waiter nodded and went off, I couldn't even turn around in time to order my drink. My friend finally got his drink and I ordered mine. Didn't get mine until meal was over, IIRC. Our plates never got cleared until the very end. It was pretty slow so we put our used plates on the table beside us....so it's not like the waiter forgot about us or was busy with a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, my friend tipped like $3....I said F this I ain't tipping. And as we left, I swooped up that $3 tip and gave it back to my friend after we left. That actually made me feel good, TBH.



I agree with that, I would not have tipped one penny on that one. Actually, I would have tipped ONE PENNY it's kind of an exclamation mark to emphasize the point I am making. Make sure the penny is prominent somewhere.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 9:37:28 AM permalink
Quote: monet0412

A few easy things to do at a buffet if you have some problems. Order a couple of extra drinks from the get go. I usually order two drinks per person. Order extra napkins from the get go. If you have a problem with a small table it isn't too difficult to put dirty dishes on another table that hasn't been bused yet. If you don't have all your silverware just swipe some from another table that isn't occupied. If you don't like the table they sat you at you can request another or just move. I've done that plenty. I haven't done this for years but if you take a backpack and some plastic containers... sit in a booth or in the back area. Get plate after plate of your favorite food and filly your containers up. After you leave get your food to your nearest refrigerator asap. The best tip that I have for buffets is make sure you have a VIP Pass or get in line right before they change the food or open. That way your food is as fresh as possible. Getting to the buffet when it is about to close isn't as valuable as when it first opens.

Tipping at the Buffet is always less. The Buffet is one step up from the fast food places but at least they have better food. As I have stated before the argument is that the server only bring drinks and bus.



Those are excellent tips! I actually have always done the first without thinking about it, because I usually ask for a cranberry juice and coffee at a buffet. I'd get the same thing at a restaurant, but then I'd have to pay for both, and most restaurants don't seem to have cranberry juice whereas buffets seem to have it 50% of the time.

Problem with silverware is sometimes the hostess brings it when you are seated, so if missing something, I usually just go back to the hostess in those cases. Otherwise, I agree, just take it from a different table if they pre-place it.

Moving tables, yes, but I don't know what, 'Not liking,' a table means..but I guess you could.

I also agree that stealing food is probably justifiable if you're in a position in which you are really pinched for money. Have to do what you can to get by.
Vultures can't be choosers.

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