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September 9th, 2011 at 7:50:46 PM permalink

Nareed

Member since: Nov 11, 2009
Threads: 218
Posts: 7276

Quote: pacomartin
When You're $100,000 In Debt, It's Your Problem. When You're $1,000,000 In Debt... It's The Bank's.

Shamelessly stolen from Robert Heinlein: "If you owe a dollar, the bank owns you. If you owe a million, you own the bank."

Quote:
Reagan began his presidency with the federal debt at a historic low of 33.2% of GDP and drove it up over 50% where it was during the Kennedy administration. People were shocked, but the level of personal and corporate indebtedness was just beginning.

Not to let Reagan off the hook, but every bit of that debt was approved, and much of it proposed, by the Democratic-controlled Congress.

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September 10th, 2011 at 1:56:05 PM permalink

pacomartin

Member since: Jan 14, 2010
Threads: 545
Posts: 6200

Quote: Nareed
Not to let Reagan off the hook, but every bit of that debt was approved, and much of it proposed, by the Democratic-controlled Congress.

It may be an oversimplification, but it is popularly believed that Reagan made USA the only superpower by simply using the national debt to outspend the USSR, forcing them off the pedestal. I remember USSR still conducting major naval trials in the North Sea involving over a hundred ships as late as 1985.

Now there is the fear of being unseated as the only super power by our debt.

Election Year	Debt % GDP
1980	33%
1984	41%
1988	52%
1992	64%
1996	67%
2000	57%
2004	63%
2008	69%
2012 estimate	105%

Wine loved I deeply, dice dearly -Edgar, betrayed son of Gloucester in King Lear

September 10th, 2011 at 2:14:48 PM permalink

Nareed

Member since: Nov 11, 2009
Threads: 218
Posts: 7276

Quote: pacomartin
It may be an oversimplification,

It is.

Quote:
but it is popularly believed that Reagan made USA the only superpower by simply using the national debt to outspend the USSR, forcing them off the pedestal.

That is so. But last I heard Reagan stopped being the president in 1989 and since then defense spending was reduced for several years. Nor were America's expenditures in the Reagan era solely on defense. What else has money been spent on?

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September 10th, 2011 at 3:03:41 PM permalink

FleaStiff

Member since: Oct 19, 2009
Threads: 75
Posts: 4821

> Reagan began with the federal debt at 33.2% of GDP
>drove it up over 50% during Kennedy
> People were shocked,
Who? I bet most of those who wrote articles about how shocked they were, made money by it.
> but the level of personal and corporate indebtedness was just beginning.
Wealthy men rarely get out of debt or want to get out of debt.
>The federal debt is now over 100% of GDP.
What was the level of Icelandic banking debt in relation to their GDP?

September 10th, 2011 at 3:07:10 PM permalink

pacomartin

Member since: Jan 14, 2010
Threads: 545
Posts: 6200

Quote: Nareed

That is so. But last I heard Reagan stopped being the president in 1989 and
since then defense spending was reduced for several years.
Nor were America's expenditures in the Reagan era solely on defense. What else has money been spent on?

Well Defense Spending of 28.1% of GDP hit a historic post 1977 high in 1987 (Reagan's last year).
By the end of Clinton's term it reached an all time low of 16.1% of GDP. Obama is projecting a new low of 15.2% by 2016.

Physical resources (Energy, Natural Resources and Environment, Commerce and Housing Credit, Transportation, &
Community and Regional Development) hit an all time low under Obama).

Net interest was very high under Reagan, but hit an all time peak under Clinton. Interest rates were higher then.
It didn't matter under Clinton because revenue was skyrocketing.

Human resources is the super function that represents the overwhelming and growing bulk of the budget.
Social Security, Medicare, Income Security, Health, Education, Training, Employment, and
Social Services, and Veterans Benefits and Services.
Hit an all time high under Obama.

Other is International Affairs, General Science, Space, and Technology, Agriculture, Administration of Justice,
General Government, and Allowances

Since 1977
Super Function , Min , Average , Max
National defense , 16.1% , 21.4% , 28.1%
Physical resources , 2.6% , 6.6% , 12.6%
Net interest , 5.3% , 11.1% , 15.4%
Human resources , 48.6% , 58.0% , 69.0%
Other functions , 4.4% , 5.9% , 8.6%
Undistributed offsetting receipts , -4.2% , -3.0% , -2.3%
Total, Federal outlays N/A , 100.0% , N/A

Wine loved I deeply, dice dearly -Edgar, betrayed son of Gloucester in King Lear

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