Another Wizard: i need help in life. and with school. not classwork. motivation.
I forget you major its mkt or mgt or something like mine... so i know there are some classes in the that are god awful ... they are uninteresting and nobody wants to be there... the term project is long tedious and annoying... the team is probably not enthused.. how do you stay motivated?
im feeling so stuck right now. i have a project due monday. make it two. i cant get myself to do them
i seriously stopped caring
[x]
11:25pm
ha...you are definitely asking the wrong person. i am like the least motivated person EVER. i'm lucky i've made it this far because i feel exactly the same way.
[You]
11:26pm
my sister did mkt at clu. she tells me she loved it. and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. i dont get it.
[x]
11:26pm
i haven't had any projects this semester...thankfully...but idk. you just kind of have to dedicate some time and do the best you can..i have always seemed to work better under pressure though.i wait until the last minute a lot
i HATE accounting
with a passion..idk why i'm even majoring in it...but at this point all i care about is getting my degree
so i just have to suck it up and finish even though idk wtf i'm doing half of the time
[You]
11:28pm
another thing... everyone i run into seems to have a 3.0 or 3.5+ i dont get it. obviously i think they are liars but its seems a lot of people are not in my situation
[x]
11:29pm
i am!!!!
but yeah..i definitely know what you are saying
it sucks..i wish it all just came easy to me.
[You]
11:29pm
i honestly have 0 pride in my gpa. sometime i think maybe that motivates people.
i dont care my gpa is under 2.5 and i hear people say if you dont have a 3.0 you are a retard. im not a retard i just dont fucking care.
[x]
11:30pm
omg...you are reading my mind.
all i want is my fucking degree so i don't have to go back to school ever again. i really don't understand the point of college. you memorize a bunch of bs for a test and not even 2 minutes after the test its all forgotten..and not to mention most jobs train you anyways so what do you really need an education for? idk..thats just the way i see it.
but maybe its just that both of us are doing something that we really aren't passionate about..idk. i could be wrong but thats how i justify it to myself sometimes
My motivation is shot. i hate my major. but i feel everyone else probably did too and pushes through it. im just feeling stuck right now. if the Wiz does read this wonder how this makes you feel as a prof. the sad thing is as you probably know a lot of students feel like this.
If so, that means you are considered an adult in every corner of the globe. If you don't want to do something, make a change. Are you under some obligation/contract/visa requirement to finish a college degree? If not, consider taking a leave of absence. Travel, get a job, volunteer in a field that interests you, join the military. You can come back to school later to finish your degree if you really want it.
Now, if you just want to finish school and 'move on', what will you move on to? If there is something you want to do, (not just, "make a ton of money"), use it as motivation to do your best in school, since a college degree is a pre-requisite to most salaried positions.
If money is your motivator, imagine that you are being paid to be a student, to participate in class, produce projects, take tests, even to study. Would that motivate you to do your best in hopes of getting a raise or a promotion? Perhaps stimulate you to put in some overtime to fatten up your check?
Well the truth is, you ARE getting paid. It's just that the cash is being stored in a trust fund. How big that pile of cash is going it be, is up to you. Those who work hard and produce quality output in college will get more from their trust funds, as they will have the best opportunities for high paying professional positions.
So get out there and get it done. Produce the best quality output you can, knowing that it makes a difference.
It is posted in the "Off-topic/Off-topic" forum. There is no particular reason for it to be related to the gaming industry.Quote: JerryLoganSo how is a thread like this one of any value or in any way related to the gaming industry?
On the other hand, it interests me no more than your wife's legs do.
Quote: JerryLoganSo how is a thread like this one of any value or in any way related to the gaming industry? If it's acknowledged, then if I put up a thread on how nice my wife's legs are and how I do not believe Oregonian women care all that much about shaving their legs and arnpits, what will people say?
Same as they ever did, Jerry, same as they ever did.
And I haven't even started drinking yet....
Quote: jpprovanceMy motivation is shot. i hate my major. but i feel everyone else probably did too and pushes through it. im just feeling stuck right now. if the Wiz does read this wonder how this makes you feel as a prof. the sad thing is as you probably know a lot of students feel like this.
I'm probably the wrong person to be answering this, but: 5 years after you graduate almost nobody will care where you went to school or what you studied. 2 years after you graduate nobody will care what your GPA was. Think about it - how many people now care what your SAT scores were? It's the same thing.
Assuming you're heading toward the corporate employment world, it's far, far more important to be able to get your job done and be a good team player than to have done well in school. The corporate world is like what Eddie Murphy said in "Raw": "What have you done for me lately?"
Also, if you're not a senior it may still be feasible for you to switch majors without losing time. Look into it with your guidance office.
Quote: jpprovanceMy motivation is shot. i hate my major. but i feel everyone else probably did too and pushes through it. im just feeling stuck right now. if the Wiz does read this wonder how this makes you feel as a prof. the sad thing is as you probably know a lot of students feel like this.
This probably won't make you feel better, but after you graduate you'll wish you could be back in college, with endless hours of fun and reveling in the love of learning. What I wouldn't give to relive my college years. I wasted much of that time complaining as you are that I was fed up with the classroom and wanted to experience the real world. The "real life" ain't that great. Enjoy college while you still can...and take some more English writing classes.
Quote: WizardThis probably won't make you feel better, but after you graduate you'll wish you could be back in college, with endless hours of fun and reveling in the love of learning. What I wouldn't give to relive my college years. I wasted much of that time complaining as you are that I was fed up with the classroom and wanted to experience the real world. The "real life" ain't that great. Enjoy college while you still can...and take some more English writing classes.
Some people learn to love the academic environment so much that they never leave; they become grad students, then university professors, or they go to work for the university in some other capacity. In many ways, it's better than the world of work. I also think it's the LAST place many people ever experience where they were treated and evaluated solely on merit. It's also the last place where many people ever did not experience discrimination of some kind. It's a pleasant bubble, isolated from that grubby ol' world out there, and the experiences offered there are unique.
And I will say that anyone who thinks going to college and getting some degree has bought the key to prosperity is living in the past. Way in the past. Of course, the top tier of students will always do well, and in any economy.
I realize it is extremely unhelpful to this guy in many ways to say this. The best advice is to say, hey guy, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. There is in fact likely no other way for this guy to go. Yeah, I hope he is at least 21, younger than that and me talking like this is no help to him. To take an extreme example, sometimes going through the rigors of boot camp with a completely unsympathetic drill sergeant who strips you down to nothing and then rebuilds you into something else can ironically be the best thing in the world for a guy. Colleges too often, though, can just seem like they are there to tear anyone who isnt the fad category of the day down, with none of that rebuilding. They'll never get a pass from me.
I do have to call bull**it that 70% of college students are female. I have no proof to contradict it, but it just doesn't pass my smell test.
Quote: WizardWhere I agree with the post above is that to be successful in college you have to learn to teach yourself. Many professors, especially the esteemed tenured ones, are not effective teachers. This is especially true in math.
I do have to call bull**it that 70% of college students are female. I have no proof to contradict it, but it just doesn't pass my smell test.
Checking that out quickly, it seems that I have heard that figure at "some" colleges. So only the percentage stands to be corrected.
edit: 66% quoted at one college in this article
Quote: odiousgambitI can't give modern colleges a pass. They are horrible places for males to thrive these days, a trend that started in my day and accelerated so that something like 70% of the students are women now. Something is wrong, and part of it is that the men do not see why they are there, they get no help or encouragement, obstacles are put in their way,
I don't see what tremendous "obstacles" are being put in the way of men (as in, men, but not women). College is the first place, for many young people, where they are flying on their own. Independence can be a two-edged sword. There's nobody to hold your hand and tell you you have to study for your midterm, or that you have to fill out the paperwork for financial aid, or that you have to attend all the lectures.
The latest figure I've heard is that 53-55% of college students today are female (depending on how you define "college student"), which isn't all that divergent from the male-female ratio in the general population. I think it's an improvement from 50 years ago when the ratio was more like 2-1 in the favor of males.
You can find some colleges where the female population is 100%. And some where it formerly was 100% still have an extremely high ratio. It's dang hard to find a 100% male college these days, since the government has worked quite hard to abolish that, right or wrong.Quote: odiousgambitChecking that out quickly, it seems that I have heard that figure at "some" colleges. So only the percentage stands to be corrected.
edit: 66% quoted at one college in this article
Quote: DocYou can find some colleges where the female population is 100%. And some where it formerly was 100% still have an extremely high ratio. It's dang hard to find a 100% male college these days, since the government has worked quite hard to abolish that, right or wrong.Quote: odiousgambitChecking that out quickly, it seems that I have heard that figure at "some" colleges. So only the percentage stands to be corrected.
edit: 66% quoted at one college in this article
Not to mention Transgender State in Arkansas, where 100% of the student body is both male AND female.
Quote: New York TimesWomen have represented about 57 percent of enrollments at American colleges since at least 2000, according to a recent report by the American Council on Education.
Quote: WizardIt said 57% for college in general. That still is higher than I would have put it, but a far cry from 70%.
I guess I was posting first and asking questions later [g]. Fact checking later anyway. But I think it would be a mistake to lose sight of the point. Whether the OP is experiencing something that in his case is related to this, there is a decline in male enrollment that seems to be related to, well, what such things are usually related to. These guys are not seeing the cost/benefit working out. Sorry, I think it is fair to say a female student who is getting it done will see the cost/benefit paying off. I am happy for them, but don't understand why it is not working for the guys. Of course, it's percentages we are talking. Probably at one time 85% of college students saw a good c/b forming, now reduced to what?
IMO anyone who has sons or grandsons should be thinking about this.
edits
I disagree strongly. A college education is not at all a guarantee of a job or of career success, but there are plenty of position openings where it is dang near impossible to get an interview without at least a Bachelor degree. Many employers look at the college experience as a way to weed out those folks who lack either the brain power or the motivation to get themselves through it. Lacking either of these characteristics is a red flag for potential poor performance on the job. The specific education may or may not be highly important to the employer, but checking first for a degree in a relevant field is a very common and convenient way to thin down a massive throng of applicants. I would be quite concerned that the original poster may encounter this effect if he/she doesn't resolve the personal issues.Quote: EvenBobCollege is only important while you're there, the day after you graduate nobody cares anymore. ...
Quote: Docbut there are plenty of position openings where it is dang near impossible to get an interview without at least a Bachelor degree.
Yes yes, what I meant was, nobody cares if you're in college or not, its no longer a big deal. Of course you need it to get a good job, thats the point in going.
You only live one. Enjoy your life, and don't make the mistake of getting into a career you don't like. And these college years can be the best years of your life. You're free.
Quote: DocI disagree strongly. A college education is not at all a guarantee of a job or of career success, but there are plenty of position openings where it is dang near impossible to get an interview without at least a Bachelor degree. Many employers look at the college experience as a way to weed out those folks who lack either the brain power or the motivation to get themselves through it. Lacking either of these characteristics is a red flag for potential poor performance on the job. The specific education may or may not be highly important to the employer, but checking first for a degree in a relevant field is a very common and convenient way to thin down a massive throng of applicants. I would be quite concerned that the original poster may encounter this effect if he/she doesn't resolve the personal issues.
RANT ALERT
That is some of the major problems I see in the workplace today, from both the employer and employees side. The employers use education level as a way to cut through the mass of applicants and miss many excellent employee prospects. The employees feel the entitlement of their college degree means that they don't have to pay their dues on the job and are already fully trained.
There are a multitude of reasons why youth may not receive a high school certificate let alone a college degree. These can be economic, poor home environment, abuse or various kinds of poor life style choices they made when too young to fully understand the long term consequences, none of which are necessary related to ability or intelligence. When I was hiring my number one criteria was always work ethic, if someone wanted to work and was dependable I could always train them. Someone with all the training in the world is still a shitty employee if he doesn't want to work.
A little background on me might help everyone understand how I developed my opinions on the workplace. I received my university degree and then apprenticed and received a technical construction trades certificate. I worked in the field for many years with the tools on. I then started and grew my own company to over 50 employees in a variety of fields not all construction related. During this time I was a desk jockey and did the bulk of the hiring myself. I apprenticed high school dropouts who started went on to start their own business and became very successfull. I also apprenticed college grads who did equally well.
Parents today are more hard wired to the value of the college degree then ever. Teachers most of who have never ever had to make it in the real world having spent their whole life in the education environment create even greater pressure. The end result of this unrealistic pressure is that anyone that doesn't go to college is held up as a failure.
With this kind of pressure we now have education sucking up a tremendous amount of the governments resources with a relatively poor return.
Quote: kenarmanParents today are more hard wired to the value of the college degree then ever. Teachers most of who have never ever had to make it in the real world having spent their whole life in the education environment create even greater pressure. The end result of this unrealistic pressure is that anyone that doesn't go to college is held up as a failure.
I think you're overstating the case. Certainly, the evaluation college degree=good, no college degree=bad is an oversimplification, as is any evaluation based on a single criterion. But many employers pass over highly suitable employees because they are too fat, too short, have the wrong hair color, aren't attractive, have bad credit ratings, have an arrest record, come from the wrong part of the country, are the wrong race, the wrong sex, or have the wrong hair color. A dumb hiring decision (in whichever direction) is a dumb hiring decision.
I do think that a college degree is a very good indicator of at least reasonable intelligence and a decent work ethic, as it's very difficult to get one without those two qualities. So an an evaluative shortcut, I don't think it's invalid. Certainly, a non-college-graduate could make a wonderfully spiffy employee. But all other things being equal, I'd still rather be interviewing a college graduate.
And as a teacher, I have to say that any characterization of teachers "who never ever had to make it in the real world, etc. etc. blah blah" is just plain silly. The educational environment IS the real world, and it's harder to succeed there than in all but a few work venues. The workload and the pressure are tremendous. A LOT of newly minted teachers find that they can't handle it.
Quote: kenarmanHow come I knew MKL that you would be the first too respond to my rant. As a teacher I expect you to defend your profession just as the sewer workers will defend theirs. Everyone thinks their own job is one of the toughest in the world and they are therefore 'entitled' to more than the other less deserving jobs. It could be that your union in Oregon is not that strong but in my area about the only reason a teacher can get fired is for sexual abuse and a large percentage of them totally abuse that protection, ie leave their class alone and drive to Starbucks for a coffee and come back to class.
I knew you would make the assumption that my defense of the teaching profession was based on the fact that I was a teacher myself. That is, however, a false assumption. I based my disagreement on your mistaken impression that teachers do not operate in the real world. That is a ludicrous concept, and I would think so even if I were not a teacher.
And if any one of us left the campus for a Starbucks during school hours without authorization, we would likely be fired on the spot.
But feel free to have as mistakenly negative an impression of the teaching profession as you wish. It won't be correct, though.
I know nothing about your business, of course, but some such small businesses are never faced with the all-too-common situation of needing to hire one or two employees and getting 800 or 1,000 letters of application, with probably 60% totally unqualified and just applying because they desperately need some kind of job. Employers need a reasonable way to weed out those unqualified and figure out which of the hundreds left in the pool have that work ethic and dependability that you and others rate so highly. I don't think it is unreasonable to judge applicants in part based on whether they have had sufficient work ethic to survive a college curriculum. And to do all the other things that are necessary to make it possible to even attend the college. Otherwise, the person trying to make the hire winds up spending two years trying to figure out which applicant(s) to choose.Quote: kenarman... When I was hiring my number one criteria was always work ethic, if someone wanted to work and was dependable .... I then started and grew my own company to over 50 employees in a variety of fields ....
Quote: mkl654321The educational environment IS the real world, and it's harder to succeed there than in all but a few work venues. .
I'm sorry, I'm trying to remain quiet, but... Some of the absolute DUMBEST professional people I've ever met have been teachers. Grade school, high school and college. Dumb as rocks, and they're teaching our children. Once they get into the teachers union system, they have to kill somebody to lose their jobs. My daughter is a college math professor and is head of her dept. She is always complaining about how bad some of the teachers under her are, and she can't get rid of them. Decades ago I had nothing but respect for teachers, man has that gone out the window.
Quote: DocI know nothing about your business, of course, but some such small businesses are never faced with the all-too-common situation of needing to hire one or two employees and getting 800 or 1,000 letters of application, with probably 60% totally unqualified and just applying because they desperately need some kind of job. Employers need a reasonable way to weed out those unqualified and figure out which of the hundreds left in the pool have that work ethic and dependability that you and others rate so highly. I don't think it is unreasonable to judge applicants in part based on whether they have had sufficient work ethic to survive a college curriculum. And to do all the other things that are necessary to make it possible to even attend the college. Otherwise, the person trying to make the hire winds up spending two years trying to figure out which applicant(s) to choose.
I would propose that the large companies would do just as well in the long term deciding to interview only redheads or those who's names start with the letter P. Using education is only one arbitrary criteria that is currently in favor.
Quote: EvenBobI'm sorry, I'm trying to remain quiet, but... Some of the absolute DUMBEST professional people I've ever met have been teachers. Grade school, high school and college. Dumb as rocks, and they're teaching our children. Once they get into the teachers union system, they have to kill somebody to lose their jobs. My daughter is a college math professor and is head of her dept. She is always complaining about how bad some of the teachers under her are, and she can't get rid of them. Decades ago I had nothing but respect for teachers, man has that gone out the window.
And I think we have some evidence of that somewhere....
Quote: JerryLoganAnd I think we have some evidence of that somewhere....
I remember reading an article by P.J. O'Roarke in the 80's. He said in his college years, the early 70's, if you wanted to get laid you dated girls who were majoring in teaching. He said they were easy and dumb dumb dumb. He also worried about where we were headed as a country if these brainiacs were going to be the ones teaching our kids.
Quote: EvenBobI remember reading an article by P.J. O'Roarke in the 80's. He said in his college years, the early 70's, if you wanted to get laid you dated girls who were majoring in teaching. He said they were easy and dumb dumb dumb. He also worried about where we were headed as a country if these brainiacs were going to be the ones teaching our kids.
Well now we know.
I remember the first woman who showed me her tits in a bar was a teacher. I asked her to do it again because I was a really slow learner. She did, so I later bestowed a Doctorate upon her.
Quote: mkl654321And if any one of us left the campus for a Starbucks during school hours without authorization, we would likely be fired on the spot.
You have a lousy union.
In Wisconsin, a teacher could burn down that Starbucks and not have much to worry about.
If I were hiring for a position of responsibility and had the choice of (a) the pool of all redheads or (b) the pool of those who had successfully completed a reasonable college education, I don't think I would have any qualms about choosing to work with group (b). I have known some pretty sharp redheads, but I don't think their hair color provided any hint of their ability to complete a difficult assignment. Or their tendency to show up for work reliably. Or that they have a functioning brain. If you have the time to work with and examine each applicant extensively, sure you can make a better decision, but in the real world with hordes of people applying for jobs, it is important to screen using the most reliable indicators of capability. Hair color just isn't convincing; successfully completing a difficult academic program is not a perfect indicator, but it's a very good sign.Quote: kenarmanI would propose that the large companies would do just as well in the long term deciding to interview only redheads or those who's names start with the letter P. Using education is only one arbitrary criteria that is currently in favor.
From the other recent posts, it seems that Jerry and EvenBob have very low opinions of teachers and, based on the teachers they seem to have encountered in the past, maybe they have greater information than I do about places for poor educations. I really have no way of knowing. Perhaps they will enlighten us more. Indeed, I have known a couple of teachers at the university level who did not really seem well qualified for their positions, but they were definitely a very small minority at the schools with which I am familiar.
Quote: DocFrom the other recent posts, it seems that Jerry and EvenBob have very low opinions of teachers and, based on the teachers they seem to have encountered in the past,
My kids were in school in the 80's and 90's and I met many many teachers during those years at parent teacher meetings and the PTA. I would say 90% of them were women and I wasn't impressed, to say the least. My wife had a business in those days and we had 4 high school teachers who rented a spot from her. How three of these women ever got thru college is still a mystery to me. What happened is, the Libs basically took over higher education in the 60's and if you can come up with the money for tuition, you get a degree. The classes are easy, the tests are easy, the job pays well. Why do you think we have the best educational system in the world and high school graduates can't read a TV Guide. Their teachers are idiots.
Quote: kenarmanI would propose that the large companies would do just as well in the long term deciding to interview only redheads or those who's names start with the letter P. Using education is only one arbitrary criteria that is currently in favor.
It's hardly an arbitrary criterion. It's in favor as a measuring stick for a reason.
Quote: EvenBobI remember reading an article by P.J. O'Roarke in the 80's. He said in his college years, the early 70's, if you wanted to get laid you dated girls who were majoring in teaching. He said they were easy and dumb dumb dumb. He also worried about where we were headed as a country if these brainiacs were going to be the ones teaching our kids.
If you read any P.J. O'Rourke, you would know that most, if not all of what he says is tongue-in-cheek, hyperbole, or sarcasm. He's a very funny guy, but it's a mistake to take anything he says at face value--he doesn't even mean it that way.
Quote: DocFrom the other recent posts, it seems that Jerry and EvenBob have very low opinions of teachers and, based on the teachers they seem to have encountered in the past, maybe they have greater information than I do about places for poor educations. I really have no way of knowing. Perhaps they will enlighten us more. Indeed, I have known a couple of teachers at the university level who did not really seem well qualified for their positions, but they were definitely a very small minority at the schools with which I am familiar.
As I've said before, it's a difficult job--maybe one of the hardest there is at the professional level. This means that some not-so-great teachers have been hired in the past, because it's very difficult to fill a school with excellent teachers. In recent years, the qualifying process has gotten much more rigorous--in Oregon, we have the toughest teacher licensure standards in the nation. Many of the teachers currently working would not be able to meet those standards if they had to apply for their jobs today.
I agree with you, though, that the large majority of teachers are well qualified for their positions--but some aren't from an academic standpoint. There is a series of tests called Praxis I, II, III in various subjects which newly certified teachers need to take. Existing teachers in our district were strongly encouraged (i.e., semi-forced) to take the relevant tests for the subject(s) they taught; the district wanted to evaluate everyone's competence. Three teachers in our school refused to take the test, and those three teachers are IMHO the lousiest ones we have (in other words, they were probably wise to refuse). I took the English and Social Studies Praxis, and if anybody couldn't pass those tests, they shouldn't be teaching nursery school, let alone high school. But apparently some 40% of teachers who took the test in 2009 nationwide failed it.
Quote: mkl654321He's a very funny guy, but it's a mistake to take anything he says at face value--he doesn't even mean it that way.
LOL! I know its true because I'm close to his age and I saw it with my own eyes. You think rocket scientists were in the teaching programs? Do you know anything about the present pitiful state of education in this country and how it got this bad?
Quote: mkl654321because it's very difficult to fill a school with excellent teachers.
And WHY is that? Because there aren't enough excellent teachers to fill a thimble, thats why! Kids today can't read, can't write, can't add 2+2, can't find their own state on a map. Are they stupid? Are they morons? Or are the people in charge, the TEACHERS, incompetent boobs??? I think we all know the answer.
Quote: JerryLoganWell now we know.
I remember the first woman who showed me her tits in a bar was a teacher. I asked her to do it again because I was a really slow learner. She did, so I later bestowed a Doctorate upon her.
I've never heard it being called a doctorate before. (ba ding dong).
There are many, many jobs that require a college degree because you need to apply what you learn. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, architects, engineers, and scientists in general this category. There is easily a correlation between IQ and college education. Divorce rates, infant mortality, life expectancy, and all of the key quality of life indicators favor the college graduate. College education opens doors and gives you networking opportunities with fellow graduates. It generally takes intelligence in general to do well at college. Yes, a few door knobs make it through, just like a few slot players hit the jackpot. Liberal arts programs are generally easy.
Personal responsibility reigns. There will be the entrepreneurs who are business savvy who run their own company who didn't go to college. There will be hard workers without college education who make it up the food chain at a corporation. But given that all of the key life indicators of success favor a college graduate, I feel it certainly is a better indicator that your worker will be a better one (in general) with a college degree than without.
In the end, when I interview candidates, I go by job experience, then the interview itself, then by education. A truthful resume and good job references are key. When it comes time to hiring those without job experience however, would you rather hire someone who has a college diploma or someone with no job experience who tells you they're going to work "really hard"? You're only interviewing someone for an hour, how can you tell? A piece of paper from a college at least is some indicator that they did SOME work.
Unfortunately, because we're tuned to believe that looks count (and definitely, I believe that someone who does not take care of themselves and does not look their best is an indicator that they will be less than thorough in their job), we will discount those who are unattractive for those who are. I catch myself doing it all of the time in my day to day work life. I'm much nicer and more lenient to the hot blonde than I am to the frumpy old lady. Married or not, we're wired to get laid.
