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rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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October 30th, 2010 at 10:08:14 PM permalink
One of the highlights of my recent trip to NV was the drive into Laughlin along route 163. Route 163 was very winding and hilly, and the sun was out behind me with stormclouds in the mountains east of Laughlin. It was a very beautiful and interesting drive.

On the drive, on the last decline into town, there is a "runaway truck ramp" on the side of the road. I can't imagine how a truck with no breaks could make it down that road to that point, but it was there. When I'd seen those in other places, they're quite long and uphill with the idea being that the incline and distance will slow/stop a rig that can't otherwise stop. The one in Laughlin is maybe 300 feet long, flat, and it ends with a big pile of sand immediately before a cliff. I can't imagine that a pile of sand is enough to stop a fully loaded runaway semi, and with the terrain after the pile, I surely wouldn't want to find out. To me, it looked like something out of an old cartoon. I asked about it at the casinos in town, but nobody could give me any info. People did have a good laugh as I described it, though.

Has anyone else noticed this? Would it actually achieve it's intended purpose?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
JerryLogan
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October 30th, 2010 at 10:13:47 PM permalink
I work for a big trucking outfit (I'm not a driver though) and those runaway ramps that have sand and a big pile of it at the end, are life-savers time and time again. When the big rigs go down hills sometimes their brakes burn out and they just won't stop the truck any more. Those ramps are lifesavers, believe me. I've heard many stories about them.
mkl654321
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October 30th, 2010 at 10:51:59 PM permalink
What stops the truck is not so much the angle of the ramp, but the increasing friction as the truck sinks into the gravel. The ramps are very effective, even if they do tear the running gear right off the truck in the process of stopping it. Beats the alternative.

Heading west from Reno on I-80, down from Donner Summit, there are half a dozen runaway truck ramps, spaced about eight miles apart. I understand that those ramps have saved dozens of truckers' lives (not to mention avoiding the mayhem that would have resulted from the trucks had they continued downhill and crashed).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JerryLogan
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October 31st, 2010 at 12:47:22 AM permalink
Again we've got the know-it-all spewing tales. Let's see, he's a teacher and I'm a trucking co. executive, and my focus is operational costs. The only time the "running gear" (I never hear that term from our drivers; they and I use "drivetrain") is shredded/destroyed (not torn off) is when there's larger rocks embedded in the sand or gravel (and sand is used most of the time) and the truck sinks low enough in the front end to cause that much damage. Almost never happens.
FleaStiff
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October 31st, 2010 at 1:39:09 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Would it actually achieve it's intended purpose?

Yes. Its similar to the construction of frangible over run areas at the extreme ends of airport runways. Its the slow crumbling of the pavement that slows the plane over a period of time rather than a more sudden deceleration. The runaway truck ramps have sand and gravel surfaces that usually end with either a simple sand pile or a series of yellow containers filled with sand. It is not going to be particularly fun for the driver but it sure beats not having anything to absorb the energy.
SOOPOO
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October 31st, 2010 at 5:14:16 AM permalink
mkl and JL squaring off on trucks.... lets set up the 'runaway truck challenge'......
AZDuffman
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October 31st, 2010 at 5:53:59 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

On the drive, on the last decline into town, there is a "runaway truck ramp" on the side of the road. I can't imagine how a truck with no breaks could make it down that road to that point, but it was there. When I'd seen those in other places, they're quite long and uphill with the idea being that the incline and distance will slow/stop a rig that can't otherwise stop. The one in Laughlin is maybe 300 feet long, flat, and it ends with a big pile of sand immediately before a cliff. I can't imagine that a pile of sand is enough to stop a fully loaded runaway semi, and with the terrain after the pile, I surely wouldn't want to find out. To me, it looked like something out of an old cartoon. I asked about it at the casinos in town, but nobody could give me any info. People did have a good laugh as I described it, though.

Has anyone else noticed this? Would it actually achieve it's intended purpose?



Go to YouTube and search "runaway truck ramp" if you care to see what a rig looks like when it hits one of those ramps. "Car and Driver" had an article on them a month or two back and I was amazed at how much use they seem to get (almost monthly per ramp per the article.) With that much use I would think I would have seen the aftermath of one by now, but I have not. Which I consider good as I don't want truck accidents for my personal entertainment.

To the poster who was with a trucking company I would like to ask a question or two. First, what causes the brakes to go in most cases. Do they run out of air or is it fade from heat. Second, I remember reading that in 1974 or so emergency brake design changed and now there are far fewer accidents than before. Is that correct?
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JerryLogan
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October 31st, 2010 at 6:40:02 AM permalink
Fade from heat, and in many cases the brakes actually catch on fire and burn right out. It's one of the first points the drivers are taught and it can be avoided if they listened. Most trucks in this country use dual wheel set-ups and that's where the problem comes in. There's less cooling. Overseas you see more super-singles, which allow for more cooling and thus, less fade. But remember, most of the truck accidents and runaway ramp visits we get are the direct result of already overused/bad brakes that should have been serviced, and/or driver ignorance.

I don't know the history of brake changes that well from that far back, but just as in any industry there are constant technological changes for safety.
AZDuffman
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October 31st, 2010 at 6:57:10 AM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

I don't know the history of brake changes that well from that far back, but just as in any industry there are constant technological changes for safety.



I remember something special from 1974, though. I actually tried truck driving school when the bottom fell out of mortgages. I couildn't handle the driving part, though the CDL gtest was easy to me. 1974 sticks out as it was a question on the test that somehting different would happen if you had a trailer from before then.

I believe your last point most. A truck in service is a truck not making anyone any money. So the natural urge is to give her just one more run.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
mkl654321
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October 31st, 2010 at 10:13:51 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

mkl and JL squaring off on trucks.... lets set up the 'runaway truck challenge'......



No way. Jerry argues with me even when he agrees with me. Apparently I'm wrong about the existence of truck ramps on westbound I-80, and their having saved lives.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JerryLogan
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October 31st, 2010 at 12:12:30 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

No way. Jerry argues with me even when he agrees with me. Apparently I'm wrong about the existence of truck ramps on westbound I-80, and their having saved lives.



Did I say that? Why don't you stick to your made-up point about "running gears"?
Wizard
Administrator
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October 31st, 2010 at 1:34:50 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

mkl and JL squaring off on trucks.... lets set up the 'runaway truck challenge'......



That was a good one! Touche!
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pacomartin
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October 31st, 2010 at 1:42:09 PM permalink
My understanding is that a long ramp that simply uses gravity is somewhat dangerous since often backing down can have it's own hazards. It also is considerably difficult to construct given the variables of speed and payload.

The sand piles are also somewhat hazardous since they bring the truck to a stop too fast, and damage is done by the shifting payload.

The preferred method is to have a gravel-filled ramp adjacent to the road that uses rolling resistance to stop the vehicle.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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October 31st, 2010 at 1:47:21 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

Did I say that? Why don't you stick to your made-up point about "running gears"?



Let's see...if I originate something that I say, it's "made up"---if I don't, it's plagiarism. In Jerry Land, anyway.

And a person as technically savvy as thou should realize that I said "running gear", not "running gears". However, if you are unfamiliar with either term, I forgive you.

All that said, however, I'm willing to defer to your expertise (see? I'm not even calling him a liar about being an executive in the trucking business) and acknowledge that trucks emerge unscathed from a collision with several tons of gravel at 70+ MPH. Especially if they are driven by Rob Singer (that lucky guy).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JerryLogan
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October 31st, 2010 at 1:54:33 PM permalink
The funniest part of what you said is that "running gear". The trucking industry never uses it because it describes absolutey nothing about the drivetrain. How and why you made it up is a mystery. But wait....were you talking about the running SHOES the trucker wears!?
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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October 31st, 2010 at 2:10:32 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

The funniest part of what you said is that "running gear". The trucking industry never uses it because it describes absolutey nothing about the drivetrain. How and why you made it up is a mystery. But wait....were you talking about the running SHOES the trucker wears!?



Maybe we can stop sniping about the terminology and just agree that the sand beats the hell out of the underside of the truck?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
JerryLogan
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October 31st, 2010 at 2:31:42 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Maybe we can stop sniping about the terminology and just agree that the sand beats the hell out of the underside of the truck?



That isn't what happens in over 50% of the cases where the truck does get grounded. We always have our trucks towed from those ramps in such cases even if they're capable of driving on once back onto the road. The reason is the sand (or gravel) gets into the drivetrain and can cause premature wearout, sometimes within just a few miles.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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October 31st, 2010 at 2:39:08 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

That isn't what happens in over 50% of the cases where the truck does get grounded. We always have our trucks towed from those ramps in such cases even if they're capable of driving on once back onto the road. The reason is the sand (or gravel) gets into the drivetrain and can cause premature wearout, sometimes within just a few miles.



Plus, they just pretty obviously experienced total brake failure...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
JerryLogan
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October 31st, 2010 at 3:50:37 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Plus, they just pretty obviously experienced total brake failure...



Not in most cases. They're brakes fail, but it's usually because they became too hot from overuse going downhill, and they just need a cooling down period plus a checkover to be sure.
AZDuffman
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October 31st, 2010 at 4:40:01 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

That isn't what happens in over 50% of the cases where the truck does get grounded. We always have our trucks towed from those ramps in such cases even if they're capable of driving on once back onto the road. The reason is the sand (or gravel) gets into the drivetrain and can cause premature wearout, sometimes within just a few miles.



I'm moderately suprised towing the truck back and checking the driver for any under-the-influence isn't a DOT requirement before either truck or driver hits the road on their own power.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
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October 31st, 2010 at 4:40:03 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

That isn't what happens in over 50% of the cases where the truck does get grounded. We always have our trucks towed from those ramps in such cases even if they're capable of driving on once back onto the road. The reason is the sand (or gravel) gets into the drivetrain and can cause premature wearout, sometimes within just a few miles.



I'm moderately suprised towing the truck back and checking the driver for any under-the-influence isn't a DOT requirement before either truck or driver hits the road on their own power.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
discflicker
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January 29th, 2011 at 10:23:56 PM permalink
I have seen that exact ramp and wondered that exact thing. There IS a mound of gravel there, but it sure looks too small to stop a semi, then no more than 20 feet beyond that is at least a 50 ft cliff. In fact, the whole roadway is reallly narrow and drops off on all sides so if the truck rollls over or skids off in any direction, its gonna be bad news. They have a LOT of unused land around, they could build anything they wanted.

It just looks really scarry.
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