odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 5th, 2016 at 12:16:01 PM permalink
Hooboy.

It would seem at first blush that Portis got into trouble gambling, but in a quote in the article he seems to try to drag some guy named Jeff Rubin and his invest-into-a-casino fraud into it.

I think first blush is winning out with me.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2613906-clinton-portis-allegedly-paid-atlantic-city-casino-debt-with-bad-checks
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
terapined
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February 5th, 2016 at 3:32:19 PM permalink
An EX-football player gets a 170k credit from a casino
This is an ex-player
I can understand a casino giving a football player 170k credit
but an ex?
The gravy train is over for ex-players
Might as well kiss that 170k goodbye
Dumb casino and dumber ex-player
odiousgambit
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February 5th, 2016 at 6:03:47 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

An EX-football player gets a 170k credit from a casino
This is an ex-player
I can understand a casino giving a football player 170k credit
but an ex?
The gravy train is over for ex-players
Might as well kiss that 170k goodbye
Dumb casino and dumber ex-player



Over the years I've given some thought to this sort of thing, giving a degenerate gambler credit. Why does this happen? Portis is hardly alone.

Here is one scenario that comes to mind:

You offer a game in which you have a large edge to someone you find can't stop himself from playing and playing, and is pretty much assured to give it all back.

The 'credit' is only good for making bets with you at this game.

At the beginning you know he has a lot of money.

At another point, you know you have all of his money.

So, what does it hurt to be sure? You let him continue to play with this special kind of credit. What is the risk? He always gives it all back. Maybe he lives off some small part of it when he gets lucky, but remember, you took *all* his money already. 99% of it, you are going to just get it back. For one thing, when he does win, you'll be demanding he pay off his debt.

Perhaps he has some sort of income. You will get that too. Perhaps he will beg, lie, cheat, and steal to get more money to gamble with. You will get that too. You wind up owning this guy, you have total power over him.

I first started thinking about this when someone I knew [just a little] was allegedly and apparently killed for owing the mob money. Or maybe he was talking to the police about their illegal game; he was stealing from the gas station he managed, allegedly. I don't know anything for a fact other than clearly he was murdered mob style.

In any case I decided there was a certain logic to what would seem to make no sense at all.
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Feb 6, 2016
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
odiousgambit
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February 6th, 2016 at 4:11:10 AM permalink
PS: I have to think that the explanation for the "bad checks" is the way that casinos handle Markers for players. The players, the way I understand it, agree to repay without interest these amounts by check. I believe it is also true that the casinos automatically try to 'cash' these checks after a certain amount of time, without the player doing anything [all previously arranged]. The casino of course is careful to say these are bounced checks, because if they were regular loans they could be discharged through bankruptcy.

I find it a little remarkable that the people who write these articles don't go into that. As in the below.

http://deadspin.com/filing-clinton-portis-tried-to-pay-back-170-000-casin-1757099015
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
odiousgambit
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February 13th, 2016 at 4:09:39 AM permalink
I'd really like to know how often Casinos use 'Markers' to get a vulnerable gambler into even more trouble. In particular the special cases where I think there is little doubt the house risk is near zero to make what are actually loans. I'll repeat it again: It becomes clear that this special kind of credit, only good to make bets at that Casino, is going to be be giving a product out that will be returned to the casino in full. The only cost to the casino could easily be whatever it takes to put the dealers and tables etc. in place above and beyond what is already in place needing to be utilized. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that the gambler is told there will be no comps as long as they still haven't paid off their old debt. It's important to also realize it allows the casino to continue to take whatever income and money the player manages to get his hands on in the future, see up-thread.

I'm still waiting for someone to read this claim and refute it. What other cost could there be? I suppose there is an infinitesimal chance the player could get fabulously lucky for a stretch and defy assumptions by then gambling no more, or gambling elsewhere only.

Again, this is a special kind of debt too that involves a pre-agreement to submit checks to discharge the debt. The player agrees to let the casino automatically submit these checks over time, no longer in control of approving the if and when of it, and then the bouncing necessarily becomes public record. This also means it is safe from being wiped clean in bankruptcy court.

Check out the athletes in the links. I wonder if there is a single one who doesn't know all about 'Markers' and how they got screwed by them. We can say for sure massive debt became publicly known.

http://www.rehabs.com/8-pro-athletes-with-outrageous-gambling-addictions/

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-pro-athletes-who-couldnt-stop-gambling-2011-8
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
odiousgambit
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February 18th, 2016 at 5:33:10 AM permalink
I'm just going to keep piling it on with this thread. I've taken an interest. See link.

Casinos have predatory practices, don't they? I only recently was focused so much on the Markers.

Anyway, Reggie Rucker was not all that well know but ""was a wide receiver who played 12 years in the NFL from 1970 to 1981, including seven seasons with the Cleveland Browns". In any case, we can add him to the list.

The news reports never sympathize much with the gambler caught up in this stuff, and rightly so. Nor would I want to see the debts incurred with Markers generally be subject to being wiped by bankruptcy. However, I am leaning now towards thinking in certain cases they should be acknowledged as debt and dis-chargeable.

Mr. Rucker has to answer for outright theft, of course.

http://newpittsburghcourieronline.com/2016/02/17/ex-nfl-player-charged-with-stealing-money-from-ohio-groups/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
ukaserex
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February 18th, 2016 at 7:55:48 AM permalink
Wow.

There but for the grace of God, go I.

I read these links with great interest. Living here in South Alabama, it brings it clear why they don't let us have casinos (except the indian reservation casinos) or the lottery.

One could argue that if they allow the Indians to have one, they may as well let everyone else, but that's a different thread for someone smarter than me.

I can never understand these people who get themselves into those situations - until I'm in front of that blasted VP machine that refused to even give me a full house, let alone a quad after an hour of play. And then that fire within me starts thinking erroneously about how I can beat the machine if I just play a bit more...

The only thing I don't get - if I have millions in the bank, why go to a casino? Have some fun spending that loot. Leave the casino alone.
"Those who have no idea what they are doing, genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
TwoFeathersATL
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February 18th, 2016 at 10:10:32 AM permalink
Quote: ukaserex

Wow.

There but for the grace of God, go I.

I read these links with great interest. Living here in South Alabama, it brings it clear why they don't let us have casinos (except the indian reservation casinos) or the lottery.
<snip>
The only thing I don't get - if I have millions in the bank, why go to a casino? Have some fun spending that loot. Leave the casino alone.

. Wow! I hadn't previously noticed the LA zip code.
Casinos are fun, kind of like Disney World, what's not to like? .. ;-)
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
odiousgambit
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March 20th, 2016 at 7:23:04 AM permalink
Again, the question is asked, “Why is a casino extending credit without knowing whether the person has the funds to pay it?”

from:

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jan/30/taking-casinos-ride/

No, no mystery here. I decided to do a blog post, check it out.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
odiousgambit
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July 18th, 2016 at 3:38:04 AM permalink
A certain Harel Zahavi has run afoul of the casino marker system as well. This article is critical of that system and how "Las Vegas casinos use state law – and specifically the formidable power of the District Attorney’s office – as a means of debt collection". A take on the matter that is rare enough, it would seem.

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2014/dec/3/debtors-prisons-prevail-las-vegas-thanks-prosecutors-and-casino-markers-law/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
AxelWolf
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July 18th, 2016 at 3:57:26 AM permalink
Casino's prey on people PERIOD. That's what Dan doesn't want to disclose when he defends the casino's actions and or whatever with all the entertainment BS he claims. If it was all about entertainment, fun and game's...... they would set a limit to how much people can lose.

They will never do that.

Really Dan you think it's entertainment to the tune of million of dollars in losses? This is NOT something new...this is something rampant at ALL casinos.

Goodgle stories about casino's encouraging people to gamble, it's very eye open2. They target evryone even people thwy know can't afford it.

How obviousobvious is it that people have people have an addiction? It's so obvious that it's sickening.

It's outrageous, horrific, sick and twisted what casino's do.

They will do.anything if they think they can make a significant amount of money from an addicted player, no matter what the curumstances are.

IMO the casino knew he didn't have the money, they knew he had a major gambling problem. They knew he didn't have the monwy but thwy didn't care or give a FK as long as they got his money. They were free rolling him knowing they would get all of his money and he would be in debt to them.

Casinos are the biggest scumbag predators in the world.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Jul 18, 2016
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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July 18th, 2016 at 2:24:03 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It's outrageous, horrific, sick and twisted what casino's do.

They will do.anything if they think they can make a significant amount of money from an addicted player, no matter what the curumstances are.

IMO the casino knew he didn't have the money, they knew he had a major gambling problem. They knew he didn't have the monwy but thwy didn't care or give a FK as long as they got his money. They were free rolling him knowing they would get all of his money and he would be in debt to them.

Casinos are the biggest scumbag predators in the world.



It's not as if the casinos wouldn't put some sort of protection for themselves in place once they detected a problem gambler, if it really mattered. They aren't stupid. So I am on record for saying in this thread and in my blog that they find they benefit from running up the debt. I won't repeat myself on that, but note I say 'debt'. This is a debt situation.

No matter how despicable the behind-the-scenes exploitation strategy was, this is debt they are entitled to try to collect. The guy got himself into this mess. What is really wrong is the District Attorney/Jail Time angle. This kind of pressure is what gets these guys to start embezzling and lying and cheating and stealing and into improper borrowing.

I really want to see states start prohibiting this kind of publicly assisted debt collection. Nevada is probably a lost cause.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wizardofnothing
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July 18th, 2016 at 4:43:19 PM permalink
It's honestly a joke- that's why they make you sign it as a check knowing full well. They can prosecute, Then the fact that they play fast and lose with with laws, you can give them a post dated check but they negotiated holding it before they deposit. I also know for a fact they don't also check balance- I got a 25k marker in an account with less then 5 k balance ever
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
DRich
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July 18th, 2016 at 6:22:05 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

I also know for a fact they don't also check balance- I got a 25k marker in an account with less then 5 k balance ever



I think most places use a service called Casino Credit and they usually check the balance the first time or two you apply for credit. Once you have been established they tend to be a lot more lenient when you apply at other casinos that use their service.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
odiousgambit
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July 21st, 2016 at 2:37:35 PM permalink
I finally finished a blog about my experience with casino credit - wanted the whole process to finish first before posting.

https://wizardofvegas.com/member/odiousgambit/blog/#post1387
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
odiousgambit
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March 6th, 2017 at 10:03:47 AM permalink
trial set

Quote:

the casino is arguing that the former professional athlete can’t discharge the debt even though he went bankrupt.



http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/21369-clinton-portis-scheduled-to-go-to-trial-in-september-over-casino-debt-case
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
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