To apostrophe or not apostrophe

Quote: Wizard

Just going off the top of my head, I think the way to attack this would be with a modified high-low count that treats aces as low or neutral. Then make the side bet against only low cards in a high-card rich deck.

However, with a $25 max bet, I don't think it will be worth the bother of most AP's (by what rule of grammar may I use an apostrophe in that situation, or may I?).

I believe you used that correctly, FWIW. :)

Quote:

I believe you used that correctly, FWIW. :)

Thanks. But is it just by convention we can do that, or can you point to an official rule of punctuation that lays out the rules?

Quote: Wizard

Thanks. But is it just by convention we can do that, or can you point to an official rule of punctuation that lays out the rules?

Interesting. I would have gotten this wrong, and I'm typically an apostrophe miser.

OK, FWIW, this comes from a page from the website of Capital Community College in Connecticut, but it was the first site I found on Google that had a succinct explanation. Other sites I found tend to agree:

Quote: Capital CC "Guide to Grammar and Wrirting"

Do not use the apostrophe+s to create the plural of acronyms and other abbreviations.

It looks like APs is standard grammar, not AP's.

Quote: Joeman

...It looks like APs is standard grammar, not AP's.

I would have typed AP's, too. It looks like The NY Times agrees with Capital Community College. The NY Times style manual would recommend using APs or A.P.'s, with the difference depending on whether periods are used in the abbreviation.

Quote: Wizard

Thanks. But is it just by convention we can do that, or can you point to an official rule of punctuation that lays out the rules?

I saw above that someone found quotes that say no apostrophe. My sources are The Guardian (British), LawProse (US), and Georgia Society for CPAs.

There is currently an argument among grammarians about the usage of the plural possessive with acronyms, with some counseling writers to simply avoid it. However, I thought the GSCPA's explanation was easiest to understand.

Example:
CPA is singular
CPAs is plural
CPA's is singular possessive
CPAs' is plural possessive

https://gscpa.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/when-is-an-apostrophe-appropriate-with-the-abbreviation-cpa-inquiring-minds-want-to-know/

http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-p

http://www.lawprose.org/blog/?s=possessives

EDIT: for fun, here are 307 discussions on the use of the apostrophe in the English language.

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/apostrophe

I feel comfortable that I have given you a correct answer, though I acknowledge the controversy. Think of it this way; you can't get it wrong. However, in looking at the CPA example, if you follow that model consistently, I think you will find less confusion in your readers.

Quote: beachbumbabs

CPA is singular
CPAs is plural
CPA's is singular possessive
CPAs' is plural possessive

So, which is correct:

A) My daughter got all As on her report card.
B) My daughter got all A's on her report card.

Seems you would be saying A is the right answer but it looks very awkward.

Quote: Wizard

So, which is correct:

A) My daughter got all As on her report card.
B) My daughter got all A's on her report card.

Seems you would be saying A is the right answer but it looks very awkward.

Philip B. Corbett addresses this in The New York Times. He quotes from "The Times stylebook" with this, "...use apostrophes for plurals formed from single letters: He received A’s and B’s on his report card..."

Quote: ChesterDog

Philip B. Corbett addresses this in The New York Times. He quotes from "The Times stylebook" with this, "...use apostrophes for plurals formed from single letters: He received A’s and B’s on his report card..."

I agree, though I'm not claiming to be an expert like PB Corbett. Single letters, I would use the apostrophe as your example B), but the question was about APs (acronyms, which are generally 2+ letters). "There are many APs on this board; I am not an AP, but there is one AP's advice I follow closely, and several other APs' advice I follow somewhat." I believe that is correct usage in all cases.

I concur with Babs & C-dog.

Quote: Capital CC "Guide to Grammar and Wrirting"

Use an apostrophe to create plural forms in two limited situations: for pluralized letters of the alphabet and when we are trying to create the plural form of a word that refers to the word itself. Here we also should italicize this "word as word," but not the 's ending that belongs to it.

Their examples:

Jeffrey got four A's on his last report card.
Towanda learned very quickly to mind her p's and q's.
You have fifteen and's in that last paragraph.

BTW, Babs, care to share the treasured advice from that one AP you mentioned? ;)

So, if one can use an apostrophe for single letters, how about single numbers. For example, "To beat the Bust Bonus, I would keep a side count of 8's."

Quote: Wizard

So, if one can use an apostrophe for single letters, how about single numbers. For example, "To beat the Bust Bonus, I would keep a side count of 8's."

This situation arose when I was building payline text for the video poker games and analyzers (such as "Four 2's, 3's, 4's"). In the older versions I used apostrophes, but I dropped them in all of the newer versions. I think "Four 2s, 3s, 4s" looks better/cleaner. IGT omits the apostrophes as well.

Quote: JB

This situation arose when I was building payline text for the video poker games and analyzers (such as "Four 2's, 3's, 4's"). In the older versions I used apostrophes, but I dropped them in all of the newer versions. I think "Four 2s, 3s, 4s" looks better/cleaner. IGT omits the apostrophes as well.

Depends only on which expert you reference.

There won't be a truly correct way to say/write anything until we uncover the "theory of everything". But, until then, it's still a good way to try to hold one's nose up in the air. Especially after having lost an argument about other things.

Quote: DoubleOrNothing

Depends only on which expert you reference.

There won't be a truly correct way to say/write anything until we uncover the "theory of everything". But, until then, it's still a good way to try to hold one's nose up in the air. Especially after having lost an argument about other things.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say or imply. I merely said that I omitted the apostrophes after single digits from video poker payline descriptions, and noted that IGT also does not use apostrophes. I wasn't trying indicate that I'm somehow superior to everybody else because I didn't use apostrophes after single digits, and I have no idea what "argument I lost" you are referring to.

Quote: JB

I'm not sure what you are trying to say or imply. I merely said that I omitted the apostrophes after single digits from video poker payline descriptions, and noted that IGT also does not use apostrophes. I wasn't trying indicate that I'm somehow superior to everybody else because I didn't use apostrophes after single digits, and I have no idea what "argument I lost" you are referring to.

Crap, I vote with JB on any argument, even the ones I don't understand.
That has nothing to do with any kickbacks.
Signed - The village idiot ;-)

Quote: JB

I'm not sure what you are trying to say or imply. I merely said that I omitted the apostrophes after single digits from video poker payline descriptions, and noted that IGT also does not use apostrophes. I wasn't trying indicate that I'm somehow superior to everybody else because I didn't use apostrophes after single digits, and I have no idea what "argument I lost" you are referring to.

I meant that there's no point going into stuff like this, well, because that is where it ends up. Posturing.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" No, most of the time.

Quote: JB

This situation arose when I was building payline text for the video poker games and analyzers (such as "Four 2's, 3's, 4's"). In the older versions I used apostrophes, but I dropped them in all of the newer versions. I think "Four 2s, 3s, 4s" looks better/cleaner. IGT omits the apostrophes as well.

It tends to get messy when you're dealing with very short abbreviations because you run the risk of forming something pronounceable or actual words. For example, playing cards are sometimes referred to by both rank and suit using two letters such as 9c, 8h, 5s, Ad. Obviously you wouldn't want to write "3 Ads" or "2 Ass" for "three aces of diamonds" or "two aces of spades." Punctuation is foremost about clarity, so if it's clearer to use an apostrophe, I'd just use it.

It's a peeve of mine when I see a grocery store label written "2 banana's for $1" but it's still clear (in context) what the sign means, and I'm more peeved that it's not 3 for $1. But you're not running into issues like:
a) "Do you like watching bears eating children?"
b) "Do you like watching bears eating, children?"
That's the old joke, "commas save lives."

Quote: MathExtremist

It tends to get messy when you're dealing with very short abbreviations because you run the risk of forming something pronounceable or actual words. For example, playing cards are sometimes referred to by both rank and suit using two letters such as 9c, 8h, 5s, Ad. Obviously you wouldn't want to write "3 Ads" or "2 Ass" for "three aces of diamonds" or "two aces of spades." Punctuation is foremost about clarity, so if it's clearer to use an apostrophe, I'd just use it.

We could keep the moderate numbers to just words. "Three fours won. Go get the fours(es)' prize(s)." Or, keep the digits singular. "7444774 comprises (is made of) 7, and 4." However, the apostrophe is often necessary, as in the plural of non-words. "Find a word with three a's and two n's." Or not necessary, as in a contraction of a plural. "List your w's and losses."

Does writing digits or other scientific symbols in sentences ultimately land us somewhere between English and mathematics or other sciences? Is it possible to logically "feel better" about some bit of math, as a savant might mentally visualize ten-digit numbers as colors or tastes before multiplying? Some centers of the brain being naturally more-developed. Perhaps, we might derive or conceive of a universal language which connects or underlies every thing, and hence is the everything. A language in which all forms of thought and being are navigated as facilely by the same tongue.

Can a foot ever be as good as a pound? The point at which even, say, the non-relativistic electron's mass's mathematically smeared-out equation lets go. And, what lay beyond that? A guess is a guess.

Quote: DoubleOrNothing's computer

Can a foot ever be as good as a pound? The point at which even, say, the non-relativistic electron's mass's mathematically smeared-out equation lets go. And, what lay beyond that? A guess is a guess.

Why do you do this? You reply to a post and then, after you're done being on topic, you'll tack on some irrelevant computer-generated gibberish. These last few sentences did not originate from any human thought process. Please stop cluttering up the forum with Markov-chain spam.