Voodoo....I noticed a cherished board member or two in the audience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD-zSPptOeg
Who? OH! is that Varmenti as the volunteer DJ?Quote: Baccaratfrom79Look closely and you will see a well known board member in the audience...and at all places...The Voodoo!!! lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD-zSPptOeg
lasted 30 sec.
Would these random, waste of time threads be considered flooding?
Quote: GWAEEB, as a former bar owner I would think you would find it interesting. What ever happened to b79 saying he won't post anymore.
Would these random, waste of time threads be considered flooding?
Depends on who is doing the flooding. There has also been an increase in baiting lately. In my opinion.
The kids on Facebook might enjoy these more than the adults on a gambling site.
Quote: Baccaratfrom79Look closely and you will see a well known board member in the audience...and at all places...The Voodoo!!! lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD-zSPptOeg
No idea who you think you saw. Just a silly video as far as I can tell.
Ho, Smith and Wolinsky on the Strip or wherever. It's all good.
He was sent several thousand PMs asking him to return.Quote: GWAEEB, as a former bar owner I would think you would find it interesting. What ever happened to b79 saying he won't post anymore.
Would these random, waste of time threads be considered flooding?
ps. Everytime AOS starts posting Bac79 starts making posts.
Quote: AxelWolfHe was sent several thousand PMs asking him to return.
you got it wrong axel, not thousands, it was just hundreds.
Quote: Baccaratfrom79My invite is open to Axel, Mike and that member from Henderson (I forget his name) for dinner at Jasmine @ the B, Bacio at the Trop, the steakhouse at Red Rock or Planet
Ho, Smith and Wolinsky on the Strip or wherever. It's all good.
Oh, you're just a comp tease.
IOTTCOQuote: GWAEWould these random, waste of time threads be considered flooding?
Quote: Baccaratfrom79you got it wrong axel, not thousands, it was just hundreds.
Translation: There were 2 or less.
Let's see a royalty for a book is around $10 to $12 with a $40 to $50 retail give or take. I totally get your playing both sides of the fence. You make money form the casino by teaching them how to spot, 86, interrupt, identify and stop an AP player at their tables in their house. Yet, you buddy up and learn all the tricks of the trade and make yourself a big brother and a mentor to the people of this board and yet, you are almost the same as an undercover that infiltrates an organized crime family and then testifies at the trial that will remove and incarcerate the father of the family for his remaining child's life. Question, when one of the players of this board works so hard to earn a living in a casino and the pitboss you earned a living from, identifies and 86's that player, do you console him and tell him how sorry you are and buy him lunch, or do you laugh all the way to the bank????
Getting back to the first part of my post here, that client I so despise, I don't turn away, I just write the 8 to 15 page invoice and bear in mind how they trim it up and what they arbitrarily cut and those things they never ever challenge. if I legitimately get say $20 to do item A and they will cut it repeatedly to $5 it's all fine. There are plenty of line items where I can legitimately increase something by say $50 whereas I would have only charged $20 otherwise. I suddenly made another $15 whereas I would never have realized that. I just take the way they act, found another way to combat that, make more money and we don't fight, they feel they got a fair shake and paid a more than fair invoice and we part friends and I look forward to the work from the clients I used to detest.
It's all subjective the same as to the price of your book. It may be worth $500 to one person and $1.00 to another and yet worthless by someone else. But the retail price is considered in part and must past muster by those preparing it, selling it and of course the author, all in the grand scheme as to make money from eh sale of it. Simple. But why demean your chances to profit and make revenue that could easily be realized by shaking your finger and smirking your lips in the face of potential customers??? I can only equate what you do to myself patrolling the interstates and pulling over a driver and convincing him not to text or anything else that will prevent him from possible upset and accident. I am not in the prevention, law enforcement or teaching field. I am in the clean up and remedial field something the law enforcement and fire department does not do, cannot do or does not have the equipment or budget to do. MCC and the DOT and the PUC mandate that all transportation companies have to be financially responsible for cleaning up their own spill releases or their interstate authorities and permits become revoked. I can only imagine the response I would get if I called up the company that pays an $80,000.00 or a $1.5M clean up invoice and shake my finger in their face and chastise them how their driver wrecked because of his negligence or lack of common sense and how childish and wrong he really was. That is why my written reports all start out the same way in a tractor trailer crash, the bulk of my business......"Truck and trailer exited the roadway and (describe here the upset and crash) with no reason given whether driver error, weather conditions, or equipment failure, etc., not my concern one bit.
[gee Axel, what can I say, it's around 3am and I am waiting with my crew to clean up a few thousand gallons of product. The wrecker service is waiting on a mobile crane to get here and lift the semi back up to the roadway so they can recover it and we can get to work. You quoted me and I was not finished yet.]
So Teliot, it is obvious you are law enforcement, undercover operations and teaching the casino personnel to 86 the AP'ers---there is no doubt about that. The only part I can't fathom is the part of the board and the big brother/big sister role. I guess I would have to relate that to a rouge FBI agent that teaches say------counterfeiting tips and tricks to organized crime families on weekends in his 'seminar'. Then that same agent writes part-time on a internet board and preaches morals and ethics in his attempts to better society as well as his neighborhood.
SO, is it just bread and butter or is it each and every person is under review, scrutiny and evaluation as to his or her math skills and play habits. It takes every kind to make up a casino as it does a shopping mall or a university. It's just why some succeed and some fail by their own standards-not yours or mine. And some just live. Personally, I think no one is right or wrong, we are just doing our own thing and do our best to make ourselves happy. Why all the finger pointing and the dual roles and then the, 'your not the correct kind and I don't care whether or not you believe my spiel-I teach the casino and I want to adhere to the role of the AP'er and encourage those to play with an advantage so I have something to warn the casinos about'.
CliffsNotes please (Bob... Anybody?)Quote: Baccaratfrom79Gee Eliot, I have certain clients in the trucking business that I really do despise because of their bad pay habits, their slowness, their challenges to every single line item on the invoice and their constant threat of either going to court or just plain not paying. But you know what, I still value each and other single one of them. I don't chastise, yell or demean or hint by code, their drivers at the spill site, rather---I try my best to console them, assure them mistakes happen and treat them with respect and dignity. Of course the driver, whether and owner or an employee of a tractor trailer that just rolled his semi and caused 300 gallons of fuel to be released and say tens of thousand of pounds or thousand of gallons of cargo to also be released---all because of reaching for his or her little dog or texting, is just like me or you in most ways. That person is what puts food on my table, gets my little boy to pet a dolphin or see behind the scenes where other little kids will never have the chance, it wraps a Beautiful new SUV around my wife, it puts a larger than normal rock on her finger, it allows me to experience and do things many cannot as well as clothing my family and allowing each of the 3 kids to have their own I-pad, vetch and leap frogs. It allows the milk and the fruit loops in the morning and the sticky rice and PHO to be made on demand. It allows the water bill to be paid and the cable tv to be available 24/7 in the house. The same as the owner of the gas station where Aceofspades fell in love with the female driver the other day, the station owner values that ladies business as well as Ace's so his kids can survive and do things and he can clothe and feed his family, etc., et al.
Let's see a royalty for a book is around $10 to $12 with a $40 to $50 retail give or take. I totally get your playing both sides of the fence. You make money form the casino by teaching them how to spot, 86, interrupt, identify and stop an AP player at their tables in their house. Yet, you buddy up and learn all the tricks of the trade and make yourself a big brother and a mentor to the people of this board and yet, you are almost the same as an undercover that infiltrates an organized crime family and then testifies at the trial that will remove and incarcerate the father of the family for his remaining child's life. Question, when one of the players of this board works so hard to earn a living in a casino and the pitboss you earned a living from, identifies and 86's that player, do you console him and tell him how sorry you are and buy him lunch, or do you laugh all the way to the bank????
Getting back to the first part of my post here, that client I so despise, I don't turn away, I just write the 8 to 15 page invoice and bear in mind how they trim it up and what they arbitrarily cut and those things they never ever challenge. if I legitimately get say $20 to do item A and they will cut it repeatedly to $5 it's all fine. There are plenty of line items where I can legitimately increase something by say $50 whereas I would have only charged $20 otherwise. I suddenly made another $15 whereas I would never have realized that. I just take the way they act, found another way to combat that, make more money and we don't fight, they feel they got a fair shake and paid a more than fair invoice and we part friends and I look forward to the work from the clients I used to detest.
Quote: AxelWolfCliffsNotes please (Bob... Anybody?)
LOL! I'm not reading all that rambling nonsense,
I'm going to bed. Life is way too short. LOL
again..
Quote: Baccaratfrom79Gee Eliot, I have certain clients in the trucking business that I really do despise because of their bad pay habits, their slowness, their challenges to every single line item on the invoice and their constant threat of either going to court or just plain not paying. But you know what, I still value each and other single one of them. I don't chastise, yell or demean or hint by code, their drivers at the spill site, rather---I try my best to console them, assure them mistakes happen and treat them with respect and dignity. Of course the driver, whether and owner or an employee of a tractor trailer that just rolled his semi and caused 300 gallons of fuel to be released and say tens of thousand of pounds or thousand of gallons of cargo to also be released---all because of reaching for his or her little dog or texting, is just like me or you in most ways. That person is what puts food on my table, gets my little boy to pet a dolphin or see behind the scenes where other little kids will never have the chance, it wraps a Beautiful new SUV around my wife, it puts a larger than normal rock on her finger, it allows me to experience and do things many cannot as well as clothing my family and allowing each of the 3 kids to have their own I-pad, vetch and leap frogs. It allows the milk and the fruit loops in the morning and the sticky rice and PHO to be made on demand. It allows the water bill to be paid and the cable tv to be available 24/7 in the house. The same as the owner of the gas station where Aceofspades fell in love with the female driver the other day, the station owner values that ladies business as well as Ace's so his kids can survive and do things and he can clothe and feed his family, etc., et al.
Let's see a royalty for a book is around $10 to $12 with a $40 to $50 retail give or take. I totally get your playing both sides of the fence. You make money form the casino by teaching them how to spot, 86, interrupt, identify and stop an AP player at their tables in their house. Yet, you buddy up and learn all the tricks of the trade and make yourself a big brother and a mentor to the people of this board and yet, you are almost the same as an undercover that infiltrates an organized crime family and then testifies at the trial that will remove and incarcerate the father of the family for his remaining child's life. Question, when one of the players of this board works so hard to earn a living in a casino and the pitboss you earned a living from, identifies and 86's that player, do you console him and tell him how sorry you are and buy him lunch, or do you laugh all the way to the bank????
Getting back to the first part of my post here, that client I so despise, I don't turn away, I just write the 8 to 15 page invoice and bear in mind how they trim it up and what they arbitrarily cut and those things they never ever challenge. if I legitimately get say $20 to do item A and they will cut it repeatedly to $5 it's all fine. There are plenty of line items where I can legitimately increase something by say $50 whereas I would have only charged $20 otherwise. I suddenly made another $15 whereas I would never have realized that. I just take the way they act, found another way to combat that, make more money and we don't fight, they feel they got a fair shake and paid a more than fair invoice and we part friends and I look forward to the work from the clients I used to detest.
It's all subjective the same as to the price of your book. It may be worth $500 to one person and $1.00 to another and yet worthless by someone else. But the retail price is considered in part and must past muster by those preparing it, selling it and of course the author, all in the grand scheme as to make money from eh sale of it. Simple. But why demean your chances to profit and make revenue that could easily be realized by shaking your finger and smirking your lips in the face of potential customers??? I can only equate what you do to myself patrolling the interstates and pulling over a driver and convincing him not to text or anything else that will prevent him from possible upset and accident. I am not in the prevention, law enforcement or teaching field. I am in the clean up and remedial field something the law enforcement and fire department does not do, cannot do or does not have the equipment or budget to do. MCC and the DOT and the PUC mandate that all transportation companies have to be financially responsible for cleaning up their own spill releases or their interstate authorities and permits become revoked. I can only imagine the response I would get if I called up the company that pays an $80,000.00 or a $1.5M clean up invoice and shake my finger in their face and chastise them how their driver wrecked because of his negligence or lack of common sense and how childish and wrong he really was. That is why my written reports all start out the same way in a tractor trailer crash, the bulk of my business......"Truck and trailer exited the roadway and (describe here the upset and crash) with no reason given whether driver error, weather conditions, or equipment failure, etc., not my concern one bit.
[gee Axel, what can I say, it's around 3am and I am waiting with my crew to clean up a few thousand gallons of product. The wrecker service is waiting on a mobile crane to get here and lift the semi back up to the roadway so they can recover it and we can get to work. You quoted me and I was not finished yet.]
So Teliot, it is obvious you are law enforcement, undercover operations and teaching the casino personnel to 86 the AP'ers---there is no doubt about that. The only part I can't fathom is the part of the board and the big brother/big sister role. I guess I would have to relate that to a rouge FBI agent that teaches say------counterfeiting tips and tricks to organized crime families on weekends in his 'seminar'. Then that same agent writes part-time on a internet board and preaches morals and ethics in his attempts to better society as well as his neighborhood.
This forum continues it's decline as it is now used to harass, attack, demean and insult a fellow member, in my opinion. The new administrator got here just in time, in my opinion. It's too bad you can't file an internet restraining order, in my opinion.
Quote: EvenBobTranslation: There were 2 or less.
Funny how you know everything. you should join Teliot and teach the casino how not to spill drinks or something.......
1. B79 believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
2. B79 believes he must have a well paying job so he can give his wife lavish gifts.
3. B79 believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
4. B79 is a master of creative invoicing.
5. He believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
Quote: rainmanrainman notes for Axel.
1. B79 believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
2. B79 believes he must have a well paying job so he can give his wife lavish gifts.
3. B79 believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
4. B79 is a master of creative invoicing.
5. He believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
As far as #4, getting paid say 60% of something invoiced when the job was maybe worth 40% is a good feeling. Because in todays society, post 2008 anyways, everything that is a non-necessity, is too much and challenged. So, making $60,000.00 on a $100,000.00 invoice is reality because of the corporate mentality to cut all expenses. For those that cannot do creative invoicing, they will probably get paid $25,000.00 on that job they invoiced out at $40,000.00 because they fell victim to the new bred of MBA cost cutter that is revamping todays marketplace.
As far as Eliot you said scoundrel and put those words out there, not me. He is a Ph.D., very educated with a degree. He works both sides. HE teaches and profits off the casino to 86 and end an AP'ers means of income. He stands up there and strives to educated the casino personnel every trick in the book, the same tricks you guys are so hard learning, using and feeding your families with.
Sending you a bill for a shorted out keyboard. I haven't seen something that funny in a while.Quote: rainmanrainman notes for Axel.
1. B79 believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
2. B79 believes he must have a well paying job so he can give his wife lavish gifts.
3. B79 believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
4. B79 is a master of creative invoicing.
5. He believes Eliot to be a treasonous two timing scoundrel.
Note to self. DDefinitely don't drink V8 while reading RM's posts.
But the bills for hazardous spills clean-up are paid by the trucker's insurance company, not the truck owner, correct?
So who is really getting screwed, and what is really being accomplished by fabricating false invoices just because someone disses you?
Such business practices seem fraudulent, misdirected and petty.
Quote: Baccaratfrom79Gee Eliot, I have certain clients in the trucking business that I really do despise because of their bad pay habits, their slowness, their challenges to every single line item on the invoice and their constant threat of either going to court or just plain not paying. But you know what, I still value each and every single one of them. I don't chastise, yell or demean or even hint by code, their drivers at the spill site are wrong-negligent or otherwise, rather---I try my best to console them, assure them mistakes happen and treat them with respect and dignity. [after the initial, 'sign here for your consent and authorization' ritual and can we get you a ride to leave the scene so you would be more comfortable, say in a motel or a truck stop, and hey-thanks] Of course the driver, whether an actual owner operator or an employee of a tractor trailer that just rolled his semi and caused 300 gallons of fuel to be released and say tens of thousand of pounds or thousand of gallons of cargo to also be released---all because of reaching for his or her little dog or texting, is just like me or you in most ways. That person is what puts food on my table, gets my little boy to pet a dolphin or see behind the scenes where other little kids will never have the chance, it wraps a Beautiful new SUV around my wife, it puts a larger than normal rock on her finger, it allows me to experience and do things many cannot as well as clothing my family and allowing each of the 3 kids to have their own I-pad, vetch and leap frogs. It allows the milk and the fruit loops in the morning and the sticky rice and PHO to be made on demand. It allows the water bill to be paid and the cable tv to be available 24/7 in the house. The same as the owner of the gas station where Aceofspades fell in love with the female driver the other day, the station owner values that ladies business as well as Ace's so his kids can survive and do things and he can clothe and feed his family, etc., et al.
Let's see a royalty for a book is around $10 to $12 with a $40 to $50 retail give or take. I totally get your playing both sides of the fence. You make money form the casino by teaching them how to spot, 86, interrupt, identify and stop an AP player at their tables in their house. Yet, you buddy up and learn all the tricks of the trade and make yourself a big brother and a mentor to the people of this board and yet, you are almost the same as an undercover that infiltrates an organized crime family and then testifies at the trial that will remove and incarcerate the father of the family for his remaining child's life. Question, when one of the players of this board works so hard to earn a living in a casino and the pitboss you earned a living from, identifies and 86's that player, do you console him and tell him how sorry you are and buy him lunch, or do you laugh all the way to the bank????
Getting back to the first part of my post here, that client I so despise, I don't turn away, I just write the 8 to 15 page invoice and bear in mind how they trim it up and what they arbitrarily cut and those things they never ever challenge. if I legitimately get say $20 to do item A and they will cut it repeatedly to $5 it's all fine. There are plenty of line items where I can legitimately increase something by say $50 whereas I would have only charged $20 otherwise. I suddenly made another $15 whereas I would never have realized that. I just take the way they act, found another way to combat that, make more money and we don't fight, they feel they got a fair shake and paid a more than fair invoice and we part friends and I look forward to the work from the clients I used to detest.
It's all subjective the same as to the price of your book. It may be worth $500 to one person and $1.00 to another and yet worthless by someone else. But the retail price is considered in part and must past muster by those preparing it, selling it and of course the author, all in the grand scheme as to make money from eh sale of it. Simple. But why demean your chances to profit and make revenue that could easily be realized by shaking your finger and smirking your lips in the face of potential customers??? I can only equate what you do to myself patrolling the interstates and pulling over a driver and convincing him not to text or anything else that will prevent him from possible upset and accident. I am not in the prevention, law enforcement or teaching field. I am in the clean up and remedial field something the law enforcement and fire department does not do, cannot do or does not have the equipment or budget to do. MCC and the DOT and the PUC mandate that all transportation companies have to be financially responsible for cleaning up their own spill releases or their interstate authorities and permits become revoked. I can only imagine the response I would get if I called up the company that pays an $80,000.00 or a $1.5M clean up invoice and shake my finger in their face and chastise them how their driver wrecked because of his negligence or lack of common sense and how childish and wrong he really was. That is why my written reports all start out the same way in a tractor trailer crash, the bulk of my business......"Truck and trailer exited the roadway and (describe here the upset and crash) with no reason given whether driver error, weather conditions, or equipment failure, etc., not my concern one bit.
[gee Axel, what can I say, it's around 3am and I am waiting with my crew to clean up a few thousand gallons of product. The wrecker service is waiting on a mobile crane to get here and lift the semi back up to the roadway so they can recover it and we can get to work. You quoted me and I was not finished yet.]
So Teliot, it is obvious you are law enforcement, undercover operations and teaching the casino personnel to 86 the AP'ers---there is no doubt about that. The only part I can't fathom is the part of the board and the big brother/big sister role. I guess I would have to relate that to a rouge FBI agent that teaches say------counterfeiting tips and tricks to organized crime families on weekends in his 'seminar'. Then that same agent writes part-time on a internet board and preaches morals and ethics in his attempts to better society as well as his neighborhood.
SO, is it just bread and butter or is it each and every person is under review, scrutiny and evaluation as to his or her math skills and play habits. It takes every kind to make up a casino as it does a shopping mall or a university. It's just why some succeed and some fail by their own standards-not yours or mine. And some just live. Personally, I think no one is right or wrong, we are just doing our own thing and do our best to make ourselves happy. Why all the finger pointing and the dual roles and then the, 'your not the correct kind and I don't care whether or not you believe my spiel-I teach the casino and I want to adhere to the role of the AP'er and encourage those to play with an advantage so I have something to warn the casinos about'.
This post is relevant to my interests!!! NICE
Quote: MrVI understand the concept of seeking a form of payback via creative invoicing.
But the bills for hazardous spills clean-up are paid by the trucker's insurance company, not the truck owner, correct?
So who is really getting screwed, and what is really being accomplished by fabricating false invoices just because someone disses you?
Such business practices seem fraudulent, misdirected and petty.
This board has a rule against illegal behavior. Does bragging about fraud violate that rule?
Quote: rdw4potusThis board has a rule against illegal behavior. Does bragging about fraud violate that rule?
It is my understanding that bragging about fraud is not illegal, and is in fact encouraged by law enforcement.
Quote: EvenBobA 14 min video that's 13 min too long. I
lasted 30 sec.
I lasted a minute.
Quote: GreasyjohnI lasted a minute.
That's what she said! Ba da bing! Where's our buddy, Buzz, when you need him? :-)
Quote: rdw4potusThis board has a rule against illegal behavior. Does bragging about fraud violate that rule?
Is it fraud if he does the work that is on the line item and charges different people different prices?
I know it would be fraud if he added line items that were not done.
Examples:
I charge you $25 for Teliot's book and I charge someone someone else $50 because they have hassled me too much about it.
I charge you $25 for a copy of Teliot's booked that I signed when I told you it would be a "signed copy" of his book. I implied that he would sign it; I actually signed my own name to it.
Perhaps those aren't the best examples, but it is early...
Quote: RonCIs it fraud if he does the work that is on the line item and charges different people different prices?
I know it would be fraud if he added line items that were not done.
Examples:
I charge you $25 for Teliot's book and I charge someone someone else $50 because they have hassled me too much about it.
I charge you $25 for a copy of Teliot's booked that I signed when I told you it would be a "signed copy" of his book. I implied that he would sign it; I actually signed my own name to it.
Perhaps those aren't the best examples, but it is early...
A book has an MSRP, so charging differing prices is tricky. Let's say you're billing for a rare book personal shopping and delivery service. The customer tells you they want a rare book, then you find it and deliver it for a fee. In that case:
I'll concede the that hassling took you extra time and that charging more in that case may have been warranted.
I think the initial deception in the signed copy example would be enough for you to lose a civil case. Not sure about any criminal trial outcome (I edited this response)
My examples:
I write contracts with you and Evenbob to do identical work. Both contracts have a stated rate per hour. Both jobs take 5 hours. I bill you for 5 hours, but I bill bob for 7 because he annoys me.
My contracts have a clause that allows for a pass-through of certain travel costs. I take reasonable efforts to control those costs when I work for you, but I party like a rockstar when I'm traveling to bob's jobsite.
Quote: rdw4potusA book has an MSRP, so charging differing prices is tricky. Let's say you're billing for a rare book personal shopping and delivery service. The customer tells you they want a rare book, then you find it and deliver it for a fee. In that case:
I'll concede the that hassling took you extra time and that charging more in that case may have been warranted.
I think the initial deception in the signed copy example would be enough for you to lose a civil case. Not sure about any criminal trial outcome (I edited this response)
My examples:
I write contracts with you and Evenbob to do identical work. Both contracts have a stated rate per hour. Both jobs take 5 hours. I bill you for 5 hours, but I bill bob for 7 because he annoys me.
My contracts have a clause that allows for a pass-through of certain travel costs. I take reasonable efforts to control those costs when I work for you, but I party like a rockstar when I'm traveling to bob's jobsite.
Which all goes to my point--we have people here saying what B79 is doing as fraud. They are accusing him of something criminal; which I don't think it is. Just another way some people insult people without calling them names. If they said simply that they didn't agree with it; that would be fine. You can say he is not the type of business person you would want to use to do the work. Nah. We just toss "fraud" out there and accuse him of a criminal act.
Quote: RonCWhich all goes to my point--we have people here saying what B79 is doing as fraud. They are accusing him of something criminal; which I don't think it is. Just another way some people insult people without calling them names. If they said simply that they didn't agree with it; that would be fine. You can say he is not the type of business person you would want to use to do the work. Nah. We just toss "fraud" out there and accuse him of a criminal act.
I guess my point is that there are a finite number of ways to manipulate billings under a written contract. Most of those are fraudulent, and that's really not my fault.
Coming here and bragging about something that is highly likely to be fraudulent is no different than coming here and bragging about killing a man and saying no more about the subject - was it a military action? Self defense? murder?
B79 certainly doesn't help himself here with the other things he says either. Claiming a member of his crew died on the side of the road on a day when no road crew members in north america were killed on jobsites - as if that wasn't an easily fact-checked item. Claiming to regularly work 120 hour weeks, as if we couldn't all figure out that 120 is too close to 168 for that to be truthful. The whole bit about the MGM fire. I think we're still waiting for some simple answers about that whopper. The lies are just too stupid to generate any respect at all.
If the same level of skill is applied to the billings as is applied to the storytelling here, then it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that the billing manipulations were done carefully enough to avoid criminality.
A lawyer dies and is being interviewed at the pearly gates by St. Peter.
St. Peter says "Wow, you are so young! Reviewing your time sheets / billable hours from the office, I thought you were at least 120."
As for whether conduct is fraudulent, see: definition
Ask yourself whether, as described, the actions in question meet the five-pronged test:
"Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result".
Quote: MrVI'm reminded of a chestnut about *shudder* lawyers.
A lawyer dies and is being interviewed at the pearly gates by St. Peter.
St. Peter says "Wow, you are so young! Reviewing your time sheets / billable hours from the office, I thought you were at least 120."
As for whether conduct is fraudulent, see: definition
Ask yourself whether, as described, the actions in question meet the five-pronged test:
"Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result".
Why bother with all that checking out the elements of fraud...we'll just call it that and go from there.
There have been some questionable and unproven statements. That is up to B79 to answer or not answer. Either action cements his reputation.
Accusing someone of committing a crime is far different than accusing someone of not telling the whole story on a message board. Since the police and prosecutors don't even have to prove a crime (civil forfeitures, for one instance discussed here) to cause huge hassles, why toss a crime out there when none has been committed?
Arguably the statements / admissions he made would go a long way toward establishing the necessary elements.
Whether calling willfully overcharging people "fraud" or "sharp billing practices" makes little difference: the act is simply wrong.
Ethics, anyone?
Quote: MrVThe problem is proving fraud.
Arguably the statements / admissions he made would go a long way toward establishing the necessary elements.
Whether calling willfully overcharging people "fraud" or "sharp billing practices" makes little difference: the act is simply wrong.
Ethics, anyone?
Does a lawyer commit fraud by talking to three people in fifteen minutes and charging all there of them for fifteen minutes?
Is it wrong to charge one person more for a job than another for the same job if they hassled you more and made it take longer? Or if they habitually griped about even the leanest bill?
Ethics is a much different conversation than criminal acts.
Quote: RonCIs it wrong to charge one person more for a job than another for the same job if they hassled you more and made it take longer? Or if they habitually griped about even the leanest bill?
Why would that be wrong?
Quote: RonCIs it wrong to charge one person more for a job than another for the same job if they hassled you more and made it take longer? Or if they habitually griped about even the leanest bill?
Quote: RSWhy would that be wrong?
I don't think that it is wrong or that it is fraud.
Quote: RonC
Is it wrong to charge one person more for a job than another for the same job if they hassled you more and made it take longer? Or if they habitually griped about even the leanest bill?
If it takes longer, you can bill more hours justifiably. That's different than the manipulation that was bragged about here.
Quote: rdw4potusIf it takes longer, you can bill more hours justifiably. That's different than the manipulation that was bragged about here.
If the price was not a contractual agreement he can charge whatever the market will bear.
Quote: RonCIf the price was not a contractual agreement he can charge whatever the market will bear.
Agreed. And that's a big part of why work like this is bid out and governed by master contracts with the vendors who perform it.
Quote: rdw4potusAgreed. And that's a big part of why work like this is bid out and governed by master contracts with the vendors who perform it.
I must have missed him saying that there was a master contract dictating his pricing; perhaps he said that. I thought he said that he made certain line items higher based on the PITA factor.
If the contract calls for $500/hr and defines how the hours can be charged, it would be fraudulent to inflate the number of hours.
I don't think that is what he said.
Quote: RonCI must have missed him saying that there was a master contract dictating his pricing; perhaps he said that. I thought he said that he made certain line items higher based on the PITA factor.
If the contract calls for $500/hr and defines how the hours can be charged, it would be fraudulent to inflate the number of hours.
I don't think that is what he said.
I agree. That's not what he said. But, like so many things in the past, what he said isn't how it works. In your life, have you ever allowed a contractor to work for you without negotiating the rate first? What on earth would make you think that the professionals that B79 claims to work with and for would ever allow work to be performed without prior negotiation? I'm sorry, but we'd have to pretend that everyone ignores some pretty basic business practices in order to accept what B79 is saying.
Quote: rdw4potus
B79 certainly doesn't help himself here with the other things he says either. Claiming a member of his crew died on the side of the road on a day when no road crew members in north america were killed on jobsites - as if that wasn't an easily fact-checked item. Claiming to regularly work 120 hour weeks, as if we couldn't all figure out that 120 is too close to 168 for that to be truthful. The whole bit about the MGM fire. I think we're still waiting for some simple answers about that whopper. The lies are just too stupid to generate any respect at all.
.
+1
No doubt the insurance companies go ape over such inflated billings / monkeyshines.
Quote: MrVIf a vendor feels he should "legitimately" charge $20, and bills $70 because he "despises" his paying client: what does that tell you?
No doubt the insurance companies go ape over such inflated billings / monkeyshines.
We're talking about highway construction and cleanup projects. I'm sure the state and federal governments paying for the macro-level projects also really appreciate subjective over-charging within the stack of contractors.
Quote: rdw4potusI agree. That's not what he said. But, like so many things in the past, what he said isn't how it works. In your life, have you ever allowed a contractor to work for you without negotiating the rate first? What on earth would make you think that the professionals that B79 claims to work with and for would ever allow work to be performed without prior negotiation? I'm sorry, but we'd have to pretend that everyone ignores some pretty basic business practices in order to accept what B79 is saying.
We can let him explain that and then go from there...I am not sure, but I think that handling things in an emergency situation might have a lot more leeway in pricing.
My only point is that someone used the word "fraud" and there was nothing in his statement that met the criteria of "fraud"...
Quote: B79
Getting back to the first part of my post here, that client I so despise, I don't turn away, I just write the 8 to 15 page invoice and bear in mind how they trim it up and what they arbitrarily cut and those things they never ever challenge. if I legitimately get say $20 to do item A and they will cut it repeatedly to $5 it's all fine. There are plenty of line items where I can legitimately increase something by say $50 whereas I would have only charged $20 otherwise. I suddenly made another $15 whereas I would never have realized that. I just take the way they act, found another way to combat that, make more money and we don't fight, they feel they got a fair shake and paid a more than fair invoice and we part friends and I look forward to the work from the clients I used to detest. (Bolding mine: bbb)
Mr. V, rdw4potus, anybody else who chimed in claiming fraud:
I think it's seriously irresponsible of you to say this based on what was posted. I don't see where B79 has said he does anything fraudulent in these billings. If what he was doing was fraud, every hospital, doctor, and dentist I've seen in the past 30 years would be behind bars. He provides a price for his services; the insurance company or whoever has a schedule of what they're willing/allowed to pay for those services, line by line. It's an accepted business negotiation among professional services; it would appear (not knowing his business) there is a range of pricing for invoice activities, and B79 bills with a knowledge of what that range might be.
I think it's especially reprehensible for you all to be trashing him while he's suspended and unable to answer back. Stop it please, now.
Quote: beachbumbabsI think it's especially reprehensible for you all to be trashing him while he's suspended and unable to answer back. Stop it please, now.
Yup. Haste makes waste. And, revenge is a dish best served (stone) cold.
Quote: beachbumbabs
I think it's especially reprehensible for you all to be trashing him while he's suspended and unable to answer back. Stop it please, now.
I think it's normal and expected for conversations to continue during suspensions. If we all wait for the suspension to end before we resume the conversation, it defeats the purpose of the suspension. Plus...you know...it's not our fault that someone broke the rules and got sent to time-out...
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: B79
Getting back to the first part of my post here, that client I so despise, I don't turn away, I just write the 8 to 15 page invoice and bear in mind how they trim it up and what they arbitrarily cut and those things they never ever challenge. if I legitimately get say $20 to do item A and they will cut it repeatedly to $5 it's all fine. There are plenty of line items where I can legitimately increase something by say $50 whereas I would have only charged $20 otherwise. I suddenly made another $15 whereas I would never have realized that. I just take the way they act, found another way to combat that, make more money and we don't fight, they feel they got a fair shake and paid a more than fair invoice and we part friends and I look forward to the work from the clients I used to detest. (Bolding mine: bbb)
Mr. V, rdw4potus, anybody else who chimed in claiming fraud:
I think it's seriously irresponsible of you to say this based on what was posted. I don't see where B79 has said he does anything fraudulent in these billings. If what he was doing was fraud, every hospital, doctor, and dentist I've seen in the past 30 years would be behind bars. He provides a price for his services; the insurance company or whoever has a schedule of what they're willing/allowed to pay for those services, line by line. It's an accepted business negotiation among professional services; it would appear (not knowing his business) there is a range of pricing for invoice activities, and B79 bills with a knowledge of what that range might be.
I think it's especially reprehensible for you all to be trashing him while he's suspended and unable to answer back. Stop it please, now.
Forum Rule 1: "If you disagree with another forum member, politely attack the writing, not the writer".
I disagree with some things in this post and in this thread however I'm not going to attack anything or anyone. I will merely politely point out the things I disagree with.
I disagree that the person suspended was the one being bashed. In my opinion, teliot, referred to in that long post as Eliot, was the one being bashed. It's interesting, in my opinion, that "stop it please, now" did not appear at the end of that post.
I disagree that suspended members should be accommodated in any way while on suspension.
I find it troubling that a member of this site would attempt to silence other members by telling them to "stop it please, now". I find it more troubling when it is done by an administrator.
I question why this thread was started and I question it's title. I don't think it was started so we could enjoy bartenders/entertainers performing in a Latvian casino.
In my opinion, the use of the words "irresponsible" and "reprehensible" against some of our members is borderline insulting, if not outright insulting.
