aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:03:39 AM permalink
So I have a 6 ½ year old Neapolitan Mastiff (~150 lbs.). He has been somewhat sickly in his life and has bad arthritis in his hind leg. While out at the park with him a couple of days ago he began limping badly. I rushed him to the vet who determined that, while his leg was not too bad, he had bronchitis and an enlarged heart. He has been at the animal hospital a few days now and the bills are piling up. The average life span for this breed is 8 years. I asked the vet whether the enlarged heart might be DCM and he stated more tests would need to be done. However, I told him to not do any further testing as, all that can come of it is determining it is a serious heart issue. Neo's are perhaps the worst dog to put under anesthesia and I would never put him through surgery.

Am I being foolish by halting further testing based upon his health history, life expectancy and financial cost? (I think of the gambling I do and monies I have lost and think I am being selfish but I also think I do not want to put him through testing only to determine he is on his way to that great doggy park in the sky)
Mosca
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:15:35 AM permalink
Man, that's a hard one. I'm against it, my wife is for it. We spent about $3500 to have our bulldog another 6 months, and she played tug-of-war on the last day of her life (she lived to be 11, which is old for a bulldog).

On one hand, it was $3500. On the other hand, it's just money, I've lost that much in a day. In the end, it really doesn't matter. Since you aren't going to be having the surgery done in any case, I'd not bother with the testing. But you might want to know if there are medications that will make his life easier. He sounds like a pretty cool pup.

BTW, your link targets an article: "Lawyer is disbarred for 'inexplicable incompetence' (see video of his argument in Jefferson garb)".
A falling knife has no handle.
RaleighCraps
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:15:43 AM permalink
To many people, their pets are like children, and as such, they will go to any lengths to keep them alive.

I have had a few pets, and I loved them dearly, but they are not humans, and I will not spend lots of money to keep them alive when serious sickness sets in. My personal feeling is, it is mostly selfish to put a pet through surgery when they are seriously ill. If there is going to be 100% recovery, and another 5 years or more to live, well that is one thing. But anything that only extends life for a year, and does not have 100% health I do not believe is in the best interest of the pet.

Yes, I get very attached to my pets, but again, they are just pets. I mourn losing one, but it gets replaced and the next one gets the attention. The same cannot really be said for children. You don't, and can't, replace children the same way you do a pet.

My sympathy for you and your pet AoS
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:18:25 AM permalink
The Big Guy



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Dnalorailed
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:24:19 AM permalink
Man, that is sad. I have an 11 year old Puli. She doesn't act old, but I can see a little bit of thinning in her hair and cloudiness in her eyes. Bummed me out last week. Since you don't want to do surgery. I would say, get the tests done, find out exactly what it is, and do meds, vitamins, etc. Let him go naturally as long as he is not in pain.
One must rise at the tree where one fell
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:26:16 AM permalink
The thing is - if he didn't start limping the other day, I would not have even known about this. He was not acting "unhealthy" in any other way.
texasplumr
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:27:15 AM permalink
I've spent thousands over the years on my pets. Cats and dogs. They are members of the family and I owe them the best possible care that I can afford. Affordability is always the kicker for me. Care Credit has helped a lot over the years.

I draw the line if it isn't going to help. If I owned him and I knew that he wouldn't do well going under, then I wouldn't do it. I would do whatever it took to make him comfortable for the rest of his life. If at all possible he would be the only one who didn't know that he was sick. And when the time came, I would put him out of his misery. I won't let one live in pain.

They are such a joy and it is so heartbreaking to have to put them down. But it's for the best. Still hurts like hell though.

I have a mantle at home with a bunch of cedar boxes with all of my pets ashes in them. It's their shrine. I guess it's my way of keeping them in the family.

Nice photo. He's beautiful! All dogs seem to love cold weather.
Stupid is a choice
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:31:21 AM permalink
Quote: texasplumr



Nice photo. He's beautiful! All dogs seem to love cold weather.




He would love to live outside and take naps in the snow.
FleaStiff
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:36:55 AM permalink
Some times the testing is too great a burden on their system.

Its difficult to try to measure things in years... those are averages and individuals do vary.

I have a very old cat with worn down teeth, of unknown age and medical history. She really only laps up the liquid part of the cat food, so it takes alot to give her a meal. Still, she gets her meals before I get mine.
petroglyph
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:42:43 AM permalink
He is a fine looking fellow aos.

I realize you have spent the required amount of money on your friend.

Can I suggest what I would any person who is dangerously unwell? That would be have you tried a holistic veterinarian? Get a second opinion if only by phone.

I took the liberty of looking up at least one in what I think is your area? http://nyholisticvet.com/

Most of those in the healing field have no problem with being as helpful as they can on the phone. I noticed there are others, some rated, which is neat.

And if that doesn't work, being true to our meme. Find a canine whorehouse and give him the right amount of doggy viagra and let him go out with a great big slobbery grin((
petroglyph
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November 21st, 2014 at 9:49:12 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Some times the testing is too great a burden on their system.

Its difficult to try to measure things in years... those are averages and individuals do vary.

I have a very old cat with worn down teeth, of unknown age and medical history. She really only laps up the liquid part of the cat food, so it takes alot to give her a meal. Still, she gets her meals before I get mine.



Can you use a blender and liquify all her meals and cut back the cost? Are you still offering a variety, that may be a redundant question judging by your posts, however if she prefers chicken or beef, what about some bullion? If fish is more to her liking what about fish oil? Just thinking.
RS
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November 21st, 2014 at 10:02:41 AM permalink
If I had a dog that I loved and he was sick....I would do whatever was financially possible to keep him alive, assuming it's for another good amount of time.

That's a kickass lookin' dog there AOS. When you said Neopalitan I thought I saw Damnation. So I was looking at the pic like, "Damn, I don't see no damn spots!!"
Boz
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November 21st, 2014 at 10:34:12 AM permalink
We are in the same situation with our oldest cat and he is 16 and not doing great, but the vet says he is not in pain. He has early kidney problems, and a heart murmur. Now he has what could be a tumor growing, but putting him under to test will probably kill him. I would spend any money I have to save him but the vet doesnt think it will be possible.

My only concern is about his quality of life and his pain level. He comes up to our bed every night, eats and drinks and still loves his treats. My wife will be a mess when its over as he was a Christmas gift in 1998 when we first met.

I am sorry you have to make such a choice Ace and I wish you the best. It is never easy. May peace be with you both.
Face
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November 21st, 2014 at 10:55:07 AM permalink
The breeds are odd. Always seeming to have ailments, always going early. 8 years? I'm shocked. My husky mutt lived to be 17. I had a chinchilla that lived to be 24.

I suppose I'll be the contrarian here. I think those of us with compassion need to check it a bit. Often times we get caught up with "not wanting to suffer" and turn an easy decision into one full of strife and worry. If your dog is limping, it's in pain. But when do you end it? I know if I was a horse I'd have been put down long ago, and although I have a hitch in my giddy up and hurt every minute of every day, I'm still having a good time. Your dog, likely the same thing.

Having had a number of pets of many different species, I'd say you will know when the time is right. Dogs experience joy and hurt and happiness and depression and many other things just as we do. I remember when my dog lost her sparkle and started to struggle, and my own thoughts started thinking about the end. But pay attention to the struggle, it'll tell you the answer.

I remember a time towards the end. My dog had lost most of its hair, had pick up a decent tremor. Started to become incontinent. But although she sort of needed to build momentum just to get up, get up she did, always will a wag and a glimmer in her eye. Crippled? Yes. But happy? Not a question in my mind. There eventually came a point when you could tell. The eye contact ceases. The happiness over attention fades. The dog will withdraw. It was obvious it wasn't an inability to connect, rather there was no desire.

Forget about the worry. Just enjoy your monster. You don't need to contemplate it. He'll show you when he's ready.
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petroglyph
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November 21st, 2014 at 10:59:09 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Quote:

post edited

aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 11:09:09 AM permalink
Quote: RS

If I had a dog that I loved and he was sick....I would do whatever was financially possible to keep him alive, assuming it's for another good amount of time.

That's a kickass lookin' dog there AOS. When you said Neopalitan I thought I saw Damnation. So I was looking at the pic like, "Damn, I don't see no damn spots!!"




I agree but, his life expectancy is only about 8 years and he is already 6 ½
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 11:13:51 AM permalink
Quote: Face

The breeds are odd. Always seeming to have ailments, always going early. 8 years? I'm shocked. My husky mutt lived to be 17. I had a chinchilla that lived to be 24.

I suppose I'll be the contrarian here. I think those of us with compassion need to check it a bit. Often times we get caught up with "not wanting to suffer" and turn an easy decision into one full of strife and worry. If your dog is limping, it's in pain. But when do you end it? I know if I was a horse I'd have been put down long ago, and although I have a hitch in my giddy up and hurt every minute of every day, I'm still having a good time. Your dog, likely the same thing.

Having had a number of pets of many different species, I'd say you will know when the time is right. Dogs experience joy and hurt and happiness and depression and many other things just as we do. I remember when my dog lost her sparkle and started to struggle, and my own thoughts started thinking about the end. But pay attention to the struggle, it'll tell you the answer.

I remember a time towards the end. My dog had lost most of its hair, had pick up a decent tremor. Started to become incontinent. But although she sort of needed to build momentum just to get up, get up she did, always will a wag and a glimmer in her eye. Crippled? Yes. But happy? Not a question in my mind. There eventually came a point when you could tell. The eye contact ceases. The happiness over attention fades. The dog will withdraw. It was obvious it wasn't an inability to connect, rather there was no desire.

Forget about the worry. Just enjoy your monster. You don't need to contemplate it. He'll show you when he's ready.




Yeah he had a rare disease in his lungs when he was about a year old (spent a month in the animal hospital draining about 1 gal. of fluid per day from his lungs)—on the day I was going to put him down, the vet called and told me his fever was gone and he started eating. He lost 40 pounds and eventually recovered, with the knowledge he would continue to have health problems in his life.

I have lately also found him in an empty room, alone, in the dark, staring blankly at the wall for upwards of an hour at a time) — I know this can be a sign of a neurological disorder as well.

He is my baby boy!
Ayecarumba
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November 21st, 2014 at 11:15:11 AM permalink
I don't envy your situation AoS, but I appreciate that you want to do the right thing. I have a different take on animals, since some of my relatives raised livestock on a farm. There were three kinds of animals: "livestock", "working animals", and, "pets". Dogs and cats were not "pets". They had a job, and if they could not do their job due to a debilitating injury, they were put down. While you could argue that they could be "retired" to "pet" status, it was considered cruel to allow them to suffer just because we people wanted to keep them around.

We have a difficult job as animal owners to judge their "quality of life". Most are familiar with the story of the horse named Barbaro; the 2006 Kentucky Derby winner that broke his leg in the Preakness. After complex surgery and 8 months of trying to rehabilitate him, he was eventually put down. Most vets would have put him down shortly after the injury, and saved him 8 months of pain. It is not an easy decision, but each owner ultimately takes that responsibility.

I understand your concern AoS, and would not fault you for counting the cost in your decision. If your dog is suffering, I can understand if you'd rather end his pain, rather than spending money to medicate him.
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GWAE
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November 21st, 2014 at 11:45:46 AM permalink
Ace I am sorry you have to make this decision. I recently had to do the same and we ended up putting our dog down. The same dog had back surgery when she was 3 which cost $2500 and lived to be 14. At the end the vet said there were some tests that could be done for about $800 but it would basically only tell us if we needed to put her down or spend $2000 on other things. We knew we weren't going to spend 2k just to get another 6 months out of her. She lived a full life and it was just her time. I miss her greatly but I don't regret the decision that we made.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
GWAE
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November 21st, 2014 at 11:50:08 AM permalink
Quote: Face



Having had a number of pets of many different species, I'd say you will know when the time is right. Dogs experience joy and hurt and happiness and depression and many other things just as we do. I remember when my dog lost her sparkle and started to struggle, and my own thoughts started thinking about the end. But pay attention to the struggle, it'll tell you the answer.

I remember a time towards the end. My dog had lost most of its hair, had pick up a decent tremor. Started to become incontinent. But although she sort of needed to build momentum just to get up, get up she did, always will a wag and a glimmer in her eye. Crippled? Yes. But happy? Not a question in my mind. There eventually came a point when you could tell. The eye contact ceases. The happiness over attention fades. The dog will withdraw. It was obvious it wasn't an inability to connect, rather there was no desire.

Forget about the worry. Just enjoy your monster. You don't need to contemplate it. He'll show you when he's ready.



This may be some of the best advice I have ever read when it comes to the end for a dog. In our case it was completely true. The night before I took her to the vet I was contemplating what we should do. When I woke up in the morning and went to the living room to see her, I just knew. I made eye contact with her and she just tilted her head down. At that point I was ok with taking her to the vet. It was still hard, but I knew it was the right thing for her.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2014 at 11:57:21 AM permalink
He's an old man, if he's that close to life
expectancy. He's staring at the wall because
he's sick. Vets live for people like you, a
lawyer who lovvvvves his dog, they think
you have deep pockets. We loved our dogs
in the 50's and 60's too, but when their
time came, that was it. They got put down.

I have a 10 year old Bichon who is with me
24/7, light of my life. I dread going thru what
you are experiencing right now. My last
dog was a Lab and died on the way to the
vets. I thought that was nice of him, to spare
us the final drama.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 12:17:28 PM permalink
He can go from staring at a wall for an hour to chasing a flock of geese down the fairway at the nearby golf course in mere minutes
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2014 at 12:22:04 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

He can go from staring at a wall for an hour to chasing a flock of geese down the fairway at the nearby golf course in mere minutes



He's not real sick yet. The geese take his
mind off his problems. My dog does the
same thing. They think in a linear way
and are easily distracted, even from pain.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 12:30:26 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

He's not real sick yet. The geese take his
mind off his problems. My dog does the
same thing. They think in a linear way
and are easily distracted, even from pain.



It is hilarious watching him - he thinks he can actually catch the geese.

Although, one time, the geese (about 50 of them) began honking and marching towards me--my dog observed this and charged head on towards them -- they immediately dispersed
petroglyph
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November 21st, 2014 at 1:07:08 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

He can go from staring at a wall for an hour to chasing a flock of geese down the fairway at the nearby golf course in mere minutes



Maybe he doesn't need a vet, maybe he needs a shrink?

Have you watched the "dog whisperer", my way although there is some truth involved is to deal with pain using humor. I want to share.

I had a friend who kept is boat in a carport that was fenced and doubled as part of a larger dog kennel.

One night while having some beers around his firepit in the yard, several of us were trying to help him come up with a name for his boat.

Since he so seldom launches his boat, one of us came up with the name "sleeps with dogs", that to this day, is the name of the boat.

Or how bout this? Maybe he mis-understood you whilst staring at the wall when he thought you said "get the flock out of here"?

I said I like to help, I never said I was any good at it.
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 1:22:27 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Maybe he doesn't need a vet, maybe he needs a shrink?

Have you watched the "dog whisperer", my way although there is some truth involved is to deal with pain using humor. I want to share.

I had a friend who kept is boat in a carport that was fenced and doubled as part of a larger dog kennel.

One night while having some beers around his firepit in the yard, several of us were trying to help him come up with a name for his boat.

Since he so seldom launches his boat, one of us came up with the name "sleeps with dogs", that to this day, is the name of the boat.

Or how bout this? Maybe he mis-understood you whilst staring at the wall when he thought you said "get the flock out of here"?

I said I like to help, I never said I was any good at it.




I appreciate the sense of humor — I know my pup will make it through — if only just to come back and annoy me LOL I say that lovingly
beachbumbabs
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November 21st, 2014 at 1:30:59 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

So I have a 6 ½ year old Neapolitan Mastiff (~150 lbs.). He has been somewhat sickly in his life and has bad arthritis in his hind leg. While out at the park with him a couple of days ago he began limping badly. I rushed him to the vet who determined that, while his leg was not too bad, he had bronchitis and an enlarged heart. He has been at the animal hospital a few days now and the bills are piling up. The average life span for this breed is 8 years. I asked the vet whether the enlarged heart might be DCM and he stated more tests would need to be done. However, I told him to not do any further testing as, all that can come of it is determining it is a serious heart issue. Neo's are perhaps the worst dog to put under anesthesia and I would never put him through surgery.

Am I being foolish by halting further testing based upon his health history, life expectancy and financial cost? (I think of the gambling I do and monies I have lost and think I am being selfish but I also think I do not want to put him through testing only to determine he is on his way to that great doggy park in the sky)



It's all about the quality of life of the animal. It's part of the contract you make with them; they give you unconditional love, and you make these decisions based on their comfort and happiness.

If your dog is managing, not in great pain, but in good spirits, then it's up to you to fix what can be fixed via the vet (IE arthritis medication - Rimadyl works well, bronchitis inhaler/meds). If your dog is hurting, not eating, not able to walk himself and manage his bladder/bowels, then it's time to love him enough to let him go. In between, like expensive tests that won't lead to effective treatment, can be skipped in favor of paying for meds that do help keep him comfortable, happy, and enjoying a decent life.

JMO, but if you look at it from his perspective, not from yours re: workload or financial drain, or your emotional loss when he goes, you'll make the right decision for both of you every time.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
speedycrap
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November 21st, 2014 at 2:21:15 PM permalink
Quote: Face

The breeds are odd. Always seeming to have ailments, always going early. 8 years? I'm shocked. My husky mutt lived to be 17. I had a chinchilla that lived to be 24.

I suppose I'll be the contrarian here. I think those of us with compassion need to check it a bit. Often times we get caught up with "not wanting to suffer" and turn an easy decision into one full of strife and worry. If your dog is limping, it's in pain. But when do you end it? I know if I was a horse I'd have been put down long ago, and although I have a hitch in my giddy up and hurt every minute of every day, I'm still having a good time. Your dog, likely the same thing.

Having had a number of pets of many different species, I'd say you will know when the time is right. Dogs experience joy and hurt and happiness and depression and many other things just as we do. I remember when my dog lost her sparkle and started to struggle, and my own thoughts started thinking about the end. But pay attention to the struggle, it'll tell you the answer.

I remember a time towards the end. My dog had lost most of its hair, had pick up a decent tremor. Started to become incontinent. But although she sort of needed to build momentum just to get up, get up she did, always will a wag and a glimmer in her eye. Crippled? Yes. But happy? Not a question in my mind. There eventually came a point when you could tell. The eye contact ceases. The happiness over attention fades. The dog will withdraw. It was obvious it wasn't an inability to connect, rather there was no desire.

Forget about the worry. Just enjoy your monster. You don't need to contemplate it. He'll show you when he's ready.

I agree. Sorry to hear that.
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2014 at 2:21:51 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Maybe he doesn't need a vet, maybe he needs a shrink?
.



Dogs stare at things when their sick. My
dog stares at the desk drawer in my
office when he's sick. He just lays there
staring. It puts them in a trance almost,
when they can't sleep.

I had a big dog, Ace and loved him dearly.
Next time get a smaller one, like a Bichon.
They live longer, never drool, are hypoallergenic,
eat less, sleep on your bed with you, and
are the friendliest dogs I've ever seen, and
the cutest. Women constantly say to me,"Oh,
you have a Bichon!" and they bend down for
a doggy kiss. I paid $500 for him and it was
well worth it. Over the life of the dog that's
pennies a day. Best friend I've ever had.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 2:34:49 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Dogs stare at things when their sick. My
dog stares at the desk drawer in my
office when he's sick. He just lays there
staring. It puts them in a trance almost,
when they can't sleep.

I had a big dog, Ace and loved him dearly.
Next time get a smaller one, like a Bichon.
They live longer, never drool, are hypoallergenic,
eat less, sleep on your bed with you, and
are the friendliest dogs I've ever seen, and
the cutest. Women constantly say to me,"Oh,
you have a Bichon!" and they bend down for
a doggy kiss. I paid $500 for him and it was
well worth it. Over the life of the dog that's
pennies a day. Best friend I've ever had.




He is not only my best friend but my nephew's as well--when my dog and I are visiting my nephew, my nephew basically has blinders on to anyone and anything else happening -- it is my dog or nothing -- mastiffs are amazing with children's d babies (even if they are meeting them for the first time, they are immediately protective of them)
petroglyph
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November 21st, 2014 at 3:55:30 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Dogs stare at things when their sick. My
dog stares at the desk drawer in my
office when he's sick. He just lays there
staring. It puts them in a trance almost,
when they can't sleep.

I had a big dog, Ace and loved him dearly.
Next time get a smaller one, like a Bichon.
They live longer, never drool, are hypoallergenic,
eat less, sleep on your bed with you, and
are the friendliest dogs I've ever seen, and
the cutest. Women constantly say to me,"Oh,
you have a Bichon!" and they bend down for
a doggy kiss. I paid $500 for him and it was
well worth it. Over the life of the dog that's
pennies a day. Best friend I've ever had.



You may be on to something? We have an acquaintance who is on her 4th successive Bichon, over thirty years worth of love. I really like the no shedding part. My friend brings his lab here once a year, we have the carpet cleaner lined up for when they leave, and I think I have just about every hair out of the house by the time he comes back. I love dogs, and mostly, they me in return.

My last dog was a boxer, [fawn and white] fantastic family animals, amazingly intelligent. My neighbors however were drug dealers and had several pits and rotts protecting their "stash". My dog got out of his yard maybe 2 or 3 times in his life accidently. The narco dogs killed him. I picked up each of my kids in succession at the bus stop after school and had to break the news to them one at a time. I can not go through that again. So we are without dog, loaners only.
aceofspades
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:00:33 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Quote: EvenBob

Dogs stare at things when their sick. My
dog stares at the desk drawer in my
office when he's sick. He just lays there
staring. It puts them in a trance almost,
when they can't sleep.

I had a big dog, Ace and loved him dearly.
Next time get a smaller one, like a Bichon.
They live longer, never drool, are hypoallergenic,
eat less, sleep on your bed with you, and
are the friendliest dogs I've ever seen, and
the cutest. Women constantly say to me,"Oh,
you have a Bichon!" and they bend down for
a doggy kiss. I paid $500 for him and it was
well worth it. Over the life of the dog that's
pennies a day. Best friend I've ever had.



You may be on to something? We have an acquaintance who is on her 4th successive Bichon, over thirty years worth of love. I really like the no shedding part. My friend brings his lab here once a year, we have the carpet cleaner lined up for when they leave, and I think I have just about every hair out of the house by the time he comes back. I love dogs, and mostly, they me in return.

My last dog was a boxer, [fawn and white] fantastic family animals, amazingly intelligent. My neighbors however were drug dealers and had several pits and rotts protecting their "stash". My dog got out of his yard maybe 2 or 3 times in his life accidently. The narco dogs killed him. I picked up each of my kids in succession at the bus stop after school and had to break the news to them one at a time. I can not go through that again. So we are without dog, loaners only.




Was animal control called? Police informed there is indeed a "stash"?
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:08:57 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph


You may be on to something? We have an acquaintance who is on her 4th successive Bichon, over thirty years worth of love. .



I can almost guarantee if you get a
Bichon, you will likely get another one.
They are not what I call froo-froo
dogs, mine is 22 pounds and very
manly. The males are friendlier than
the females (just like with people)
and they give lots of affection. Smart
as a whip too. People who know this
breed adore them, that's why I get
the reaction everywhere I go.

I will be devastated when he goes. I know
a guy in his 50's who lost his Bichon
7 years ago and gets teared up just talking
about him. They really get you where you
live. I don't want to be without one, if
I had a choice of my wife or my dog, there's
no contest. The Bichon gives me far more
than any woman has.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
aceofspades
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:21:35 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I can almost guarantee if you get a
Bichon, you will likely get another one.
They are not what I call froo-froo
dogs, mine is 22 pounds and very
manly. The males are friendlier than
the females (just like with people)
and they give lots of affection. Smart
as a whip too. People who know this
breed adore them, that's why I get
the reaction everywhere I go.

I will be devastated when he goes. I know
a guy in his 50's who lost his Bichon
7 years ago and gets teared up just talking
about him. They really get you where you
live. I don't want to be without one, if
I had a choice of my wife or my dog, there's
no contest. The Bichon gives me far more
than any woman has.




Mastiffs are on the Top 10 list of LEAST intelligent dogs…

Of course, they also have the 18th strongest bite (556 pounds per square inch) in the entire animal kingdom (sandwiched in between a wolf and a great white shark) [FYI—strongest bite is the Salt Water Crocodile at 7700psi]
Mosca
Mosca
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:32:53 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob


I have a 10 year old Bichon who is with me
24/7, light of my life. I dread going thru what
you are experiencing right now. My last
dog was a Lab and died on the way to the
vets. I thought that was nice of him, to spare
us the final drama.



Our last bulldog did something the same, Bob. She died in her sleep. I remember that evening, she hobbled over to me with a toy in her mouth, and we tugged back and forth. And then she started to have tremors, and I could feel her fear. I stroked her head and neck, and called her a good girl, the best dog ever, and the tremors stopped. And I gave her a good solid ear scratching that she leaned into. But both Mrs and I knew. And she died during the night.

Penny, young and old:



A falling knife has no handle.
soxfan
soxfan
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:35:32 PM permalink
Go to the GNC store and buy a high quality msm supplement. Break up the capsule and mix it in to your dog's food. It will do wonders for the arthritis, hey hey.
" Life is a well of joy; but where the rabble drinks too, all wells are poisoned!" Nietzsche
aceofspades
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:37:40 PM permalink
Quote: soxfan

Go to the GNC store and buy a high quality msm supplement. Break up the capsule and mix it in to your dog's food. It will do wonders for the arthritis, hey hey.




Thanks!
petroglyph
petroglyph
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:39:11 PM permalink
At Aos, I didn't call animal control, I did talk to the cops. They were curious if I had more info. My nephew's mother in law is a state legislator, she stopped by and I told her my story. I repeated what I've said here, she thought the police should have done something. Maybe they will? It angers me in yet another way. The gal, works at the hospital so I think they deal in pharmaceuticals? Which with my imagination are being "lifted" from the hospital. The heroin in the area has since become epidemic, probably the meth as well. I don't know anyone who runs in those circles so am out of touch.

I replied [to the cops] that these people have 50 "friends" per day who stay less than 5 minutes each. Every day, unless there are none. Which I take to mean they are "out". Nobody has that many friends.

I don't know if they were implying that I should try to buy some dope or not. That won't happen. Their 50 friends per day were always looking and appeared to be taking "inventory" of our stuff.

One of them came over to apologize, saying her dogs had never killed any other dogs before. I told her it was a matter of time until they killed a kid, she was pissed off at me. I told her just because they had never killed a human before did not mean there would be no first time for that either. We are not what I would call, on a friendly basis.
aceofspades
aceofspades
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November 21st, 2014 at 4:43:29 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

At Aos, I didn't call animal control, I did talk to the cops. They were curious if I had more info. My nephew's mother in law is a state legislator, she stopped by and I told her my story. I repeated what I've said here, she thought the police should have done something. Maybe they will? It angers me in yet another way. The gal, works at the hospital so I think they deal in pharmaceuticals? Which with my imagination are being "lifted" from the hospital. The heroin in the area has since become epidemic, probably the meth as well. I don't know anyone who runs in those circles so am out of touch.

I replied [to the cops] that these people have 50 "friends" per day who stay less than 5 minutes each. Every day, unless there are none. Which I take to mean they are "out". Nobody has that many friends.

I don't know if they were implying that I should try to buy some dope or not. That won't happen. Their 50 friends per day were always looking and appeared to be taking "inventory" of our stuff.

One of them came over to apologize, saying her dogs had never killed any other dogs before. I told her it was a matter of time until they killed a kid, she was pissed off at me. I told her just because they had never killed a human before did not mean there would be no first time for that either. We are not what I would call, on a friendly basis.





While walking my pup, we have encountered (separately) an aggressive Rottweiler and an aggressive pit bull.

Both the Rott and the Pit decided they would snap and grab at my mastiff's neck…within 5 seconds my mastiff had them on their respective backs standing over them barking in their faces.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2014 at 5:03:06 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades


While walking my pup, we have encountered (separately) an aggressive Rottweiler and an aggressive pit bull.
.



I've saved my dog by picking him
up and turning my back to the attacking
dog. I've read if you pick an animal up,
he disappears to the other dog. It
seems to work.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
petroglyph
petroglyph
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November 21st, 2014 at 5:05:56 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Quote: petroglyph

At Aos, I didn't call animal control, I did talk to the cops. They were curious if I had more info. My nephew's mother in law is a state legislator, she stopped by and I told her my story. I repeated what I've said here, she thought the police should have done something. Maybe they will? It angers me in yet another way. The gal, works at the hospital so I think they deal in pharmaceuticals? Which with my imagination are being "lifted" from the hospital. The heroin in the area has since become epidemic, probably the meth as well. I don't know anyone who runs in those circles so am out of touch.

I replied [to the cops] that these people have 50 "friends" per day who stay less than 5 minutes each. Every day, unless there are none. Which I take to mean they are "out". Nobody has that many friends.

I don't know if they were implying that I should try to buy some dope or not. That won't happen. Their 50 friends per day were always looking and appeared to be taking "inventory" of our stuff.

One of them came over to apologize, saying her dogs had never killed any other dogs before. I told her it was a matter of time until they killed a kid, she was pissed off at me. I told her just because they had never killed a human before did not mean there would be no first time for that either. We are not what I would call, on a friendly basis.





While walking my pup, we have encountered (separately) an aggressive Rottweiler and an aggressive pit bull.

Both the Rott and the Pit decided they would snap and grab at my mastiff's neck…within 5 seconds my mastiff had them on their respective backs standing over them barking in their faces.



That is cool for your mastiff.

In my neighbors case is wasn't entirely easy to keep reminding myself that it really isn't the dogs fault. Emotionally I wanted to do something stupid, but I think that was just mental venting.

I have taken courses in dog obedience training and have seen that even Pit Bulls with enough attention can be relatively decent animals. I will never trust them.
Nationally if I were to look up the statistics they kill at least one child per year, I believe way more, and plenty of child maimings to go along with that, not all reported. I think there needs to be licensing for pit bulls more so than firearms. The guns don't go off by themselves. It is just a matter of time or opportunity before a pit decides to revert to what it was bred for.imo

I was serious earlier about checking that website. It was mentioned above about msm. I take it, I am working my wife up to 4k mgs daily. It is touted as a miracle pain reliever. So far, I notice nothing. I think you probably feed your friend very well, but I don't know what pet food sellers really have in the bag. I doubt you feed him that Chinese dog food that was found to have melamine in it which was killing pets.

I know they even have chiropractors for horses? That does not look like an easy job. It might be worth a call to a nutrition specialist for canines? Its only a call. I did some mental math on your pup, and he is still 25% away from average. That's young, that's like 15 dog years. Not saying something bad won't happen but he still seems pretty young and with the care you probably give him, I would think he would be way on the other side of the average?
AxelWolf
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November 21st, 2014 at 8:20:00 PM permalink
Sorry for anyone who loses a pet.

My GF rescued A miniature poodle from the pound. That was 16 years ago, before she meet me, it was full grown and abuse at the time.

Over the last few years It wasn't it's self, It was old, half blind and deaf, but seemingly happy and loving.

About a week ago, Almost over night, it stopped walking and eating, by the time we got it to the Vet it was to late. It was Still wagging its tale and responding to petting, but obviously we had to put it down. She had to leave the Vets office because she heard it yelp during the euthanization process.

She insisted we bury him and plant a tree, I still have blisters on my hands from digging . We have been mostly staying in hotel rooms since and returning home 2 times a day because its hard for her to not see him.

On a brighter note, about 4 weeks ago I rescued an abandoned white kitten. It was fifthly, dehydrated, scared and starving, almost run over in a swap meet a parking lot. It took over a week for it to come out of hiding.

I really didn't think it would make it. However its now fat and terrorizing the house and breaking stuff. It's loving and overly playful (loudest purring I've heard from a cat). It wont leave my GF's side when we are home. it's name is Spirit.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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November 22nd, 2014 at 6:41:02 AM permalink
I have a ten year old dog that has had health issues. You'll have to make your own decision no matter what guidance you receive here. I don't think you'll ever regret spending the money, but there is a limit to what is right and what is overly sentimental.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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November 22nd, 2014 at 7:17:29 AM permalink
Seems you have a little denial of his condition and should get a second opinion to see if it's for a reason. Kind of thinking you should get another to transition either way and not being alone if you decide to kill this one.
I am a robot.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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November 22nd, 2014 at 9:27:41 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Seems you have a little denial of his condition and should get a second opinion to see if it's for a reason. Kind of thinking you should get another to transition either way and not being alone if you decide to kill this one.



Geeez
aceofspades
aceofspades
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November 22nd, 2014 at 10:56:05 AM permalink
Well, vet said he is slightly better but needs a few more days of animal hospital care for the bronchitis — in order to determine the extent of the enlarged heart and prognosis, he would need to do a multitude of tests that I am not going to do. like my vet said, my dog is a fighter — although he has been sick a lot of his life.
I just wonder if he did not limp that night and I never brought him to the vet, how he would be faring. I did not notice anything different in his breathing (his breathing is always labored and he always snores like a freight train) so I am sure it is possible he has had bronchitis or other illnesses that went untreated. Although the vet has been our family vet for 25 years, and I trust him, I wonder how much is overkill…?
petroglyph
petroglyph
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November 22nd, 2014 at 12:06:34 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Well, vet said he is slightly better but needs a few more days of animal hospital care for the bronchitis — in order to determine the extent of the enlarged heart and prognosis, he would need to do a multitude of tests that I am not going to do. like my vet said, my dog is a fighter — although he has been sick a lot of his life.
I just wonder if he did not limp that night and I never brought him to the vet, how he would be faring. I did not notice anything different in his breathing (his breathing is always labored and he always snores like a freight train) so I am sure it is possible he has had bronchitis or other illnesses that went untreated. Although the vet has been our family vet for 25 years, and I trust him, I wonder how much is overkill…?



Back on the ranch, we all tried to do all the animal husbandry we could just as it was in old times. Someone in the area that "knew" animals was an important "go to" person versus going in to town to see a vet $$. Having lots of animals it is just a necessity to be able to diagnose and treat as many animal problems as you can. Also, mistakes do happen, not only by the owners but by vets, and dr's as well. Just the way it is.

I understand your long time relationship with your vet. Other than expensive tests what has he done for your friend? Pills, potions, therapy? Unfortunately with our pets as well as with ourselves we have to be our own best health advocate. Even a wild dog, or coyote has to treat themselves to the best of their ability. Have you ever watched dogs eat grass? Eat stuff that they don't ordinarily eat and you don't understand? They are trying [imo] in the case with grass to puke. Or treat something we don't know about.

Imo, I would give that site a call. Same way with us, don't go to a ENT for a toenail fungus. You want/need a different answer than the one you are receiving if you aren't satisfied with the results. If your buddy has breathing problems, maybe he needs an air purifier? Maybe he needs colloidal silver in a humidifier?

We lost my wifes father to stubborness. You can only take so many medical procedures when your immunity is compromised, for whatever reason. Does the breed typically snore badly? I don't get the diagnosis of enlarged heart, was there a baseline to determine it had gotten larger? Is it an inflammatory response? Limping occasionally is not a big deal, I know I do, and it has nothing to do with my heart. How are his nails? Has anybody looked in his ears, checked for parasites? Did you take in a stool sample? They did bloodwork, right? Save a copy for a baseline.
EvenBob
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November 22nd, 2014 at 12:11:32 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

. Kind of thinking you should get another to transition either way and not being alone if you decide to kill this one.



Dogs aren't cars, you don't get a 2nd
one because the first one might break
down. A dog is your friend and companion,
quite often your best friend.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
petroglyph
petroglyph
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November 22nd, 2014 at 12:43:07 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Dogs aren't cars, you don't get a 2nd
one because the first one might break
down. A dog is your friend and companion,
quite often your best friend.



If you love them enough, you don't take them to a stranger to have them put down. You do it yourself. They shouldn't be abandoned to die in the back room of the clinic.

I want to know I have a friend that will do the same for me.
AxelWolf
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November 22nd, 2014 at 3:20:31 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

If you love them enough, you don't take them to a stranger to have them put down. You do it yourself. They shouldn't be abandoned to die in the back room of the clinic.

I want to know I have a friend that will do the same for me.

REALLY ? That's seriously really a dumb thing to say and do for many reasons. BAD ADVICE

Not everybody lives in country bumpkin land where you can take it out back and shoot it.

not everybody wants to remember mangling there dog.

Not everybody owns guns(thank god).

living in a big city How would attempt to do this? Smother it, drowned it, hang it ? you don't think that's cruel?

I can imagine some fool messing up there attempt.

I'm sure it's illegal in some places


MOST OF ALL, THEY ALLOW YOU TO BE THERE IN THE ROOM WITH THE ANIMAL DURING THE EUTHANIZATION.

so if your argument is "They shouldn't be abandoned to die in the back room of the clinic"

you can see why " you do it yourself " is terrible advice.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
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