Miscellaneous Discussion Thread
Quote: AxelWolfyou would hate djatc, that @#$%er orders the most expensive thing on the menu, even if he doesn't even like it.
He used to pick up all his free gift spatulas and crap at the casinos.
How annoying is that when he says, "Oh. I got to stop here hear real quick to get my 20th free snuggy"
Ahaha! That's great.
Quote: AxelWolfyou would hate djatc, that @#$%er orders the most expensive thing on the menu, even if he doesn't even like it.
He used to pick up all his free gift spatulas and crap at the casinos.
How annoying is that when he says, "Oh. I got to stop here hear real quick to get my 20th free snuggy"
Ya but I only do that with my own comp, or if we have unlimited.
Quote: djatcYa but I only do that with my own comp, or if we have unlimited.
Why would you order the most expensive thing if you don't like it? Wouldn't maximizing enjoyment make more sense than maximizing retail cost?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhy would you order the most expensive thing if you don't like it? Wouldn't maximizing enjoyment make more sense than maximizing retail cost?
I think part of the fun in a RFB or comp is to try new things you normally wouldn't because of a budget. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would pay for some of these items such as lobster and filets. Better to find out you don't like it if you didn't pay for it, and some faceless entity such as the casino is.
As to social security the question is not is it optimal, nor is the question is it "fair". The origin of unemployment insurance and social security was the Great Depression. Half the soup kitchens in Chicago were funded by Al Capone. Many NY gangsters funded the Three Penny Restaurants that fed the working poor too proud to accept hand outs. That was certainly not optimal but they got the task done.
The purpose when the legislation was passed was to provide a cushion for the unfortunate not a "return for all". There was never an intent to tax the poor nor support everyone, but thats how it is now.
Alaska set things up so the trust fund could not be touched. We should have done that with the income tax and with social security.
When it was passed, you were a big shot if you got a long distance phone call. You were certainly a big shot if you had to pay income tax... and if you did pay the rate was one percent. Raising it to one and a half percent caused about as much of a ruckus as raising beer from a nickle to a dime did. Once you let politicians near things they ruin it. OBJ raised social security payouts on the eve of an election. You think he cared about actuarial support for the bribe to the voters?
Quote: djatcI think part of the fun in a RFB or comp is to try new things you normally wouldn't because of a budget. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would pay for some of these items such as lobster and filets. Better to find out you don't like it if you didn't pay for it, and some faceless entity such as the casino is.
Yeah, ok, that is different. I have done the same thing.
I thought that Axel meant that you knew beforehand that you didn't like it, but ordered it anyway just because it was the most expensive thing.
Quote: djatcI don't know anyone in their right mind who would pay for some of these items such as lobster and filets.
I may not be in my right mind but I occasionally order surf and turf even if I am paying for it.
On a value note: I had a filet and tail at a nice casino steakhouse outside of Vegas a week ago and the menu price was only $39. I was shocked at how cheap it was for being a quality meal in an upscale environment. I think it would have been around $89 at most Las Vegas steakhouses. BTW, my $39 meal was comped.
Quote: DRichI may not be in my right mind but I occasionally order surf and turf even if I am paying for it.
On a value note: I had a filet and tail at a nice casino steakhouse outside of Vegas a week ago and the menu price was only $39. I was shocked at how cheap it was for being a quality meal in an upscale environment. I think it would have been around $89 at most Las Vegas steakhouses. BTW, my $39 meal was comped.
I pay for expensive meals all the time. But I really enjoy them. I'm not sure what the point is of having money if you are not going to enjoy it.
As far as your second point, many casinos outside of Vegas still seem to use the strategy of pricing meals close to cost to try to get people into the casinos. In Vegas the casinos seem to have moved to making more money from retail, nightclubs, pools, and restaurants than they do from gambling, but that doesn't seem to be the case at other places. The steakhouse at my local casino is really cheap (by upscale-food-standards), and, while it's not going to be confused with Craftsteak, it is still quite good.
I think he hasQuote: AxiomOfChoiceYeah, ok, that is different. I have done the same thing.
I thought that Axel meant that you knew beforehand that you didn't like it, but ordered it anyway just because it was the most expensive thing.
Here are the reasons I think dishwashers are a scam.
- If you want clean dishes in the end, you have to pre-clean (or what we called "jump" at camp) the dishes before putting them in.
- Trying to fit everything in efficiently becomes a three-dimensional geometry puzzle.
- There is an additional fuss unloading the dishwasher.
- Sometimes you're not sure if the dishes in the machine are dirty or clean and waiting to be removed.
- The cost of electricity to run the machine.
As long as you're pre-cleaing the dishes anyway, you may as well take the extra minutes and just fully clean them.
Don't tell me that some washers don't require pre-cleaning. I'll believe that when I see it with my own eyes.
Quote: WizardAs long as you're pre-cleaing the dishes anyway, you may as well take the extra minutes and just fully clean them.
Try it. Take one week where you do all the dishes in your house. All of them, not just the ones you use. All the pots and pans, too, mixing bowls, cutting boards, all the cutlery, all cooking utensils, etc.
The next week you use the dishwasher.
Then come back and explain which was better for you.
In my dreams, after I'm done cooking the dishes, pots, pans, etc clean themselves :)
I don't use a dishwasher because I just don't use up that many dishes, pans, pots, etc. But I passionately dislike the wash afterwards. If I can put it off I do.
I am the ultimate bachelor.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceOrder delivery. Use no dishes. Problem solved.
I am the ultimate bachelor.
I used to use plastic plates and utensils. Toss it after I'm done. No cleanup required. Now I just eat out everyday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjcyUjXwH_4
Quote: rudeboyoiinside of a dishwasher video. it really doesnt look like it does much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjcyUjXwH_4
It sprays detergent and hot water and stuff. What did you think it did?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIt sprays detergent and hot water and stuff. What did you think it did?
Personally, I thought gremlins got in there an cleaned the dishes.
Quote: NareedTry it. Take one week where you do all the dishes in your house. All of them, not just the ones you use. All the pots and pans, too, mixing bowls, cutting boards, all the cutlery, all cooking utensils, etc.
The next week you use the dishwasher.
Then come back and explain which was better for you.
In my dreams, after I'm done cooking the dishes, pots, pans, etc clean themselves :)
I don't use a dishwasher because I just don't use up that many dishes, pans, pots, etc. But I passionately dislike the wash afterwards. If I can put it off I do.
We thought about buying a dishwasher but after the cost analysis it did not make sense.
I do most of the cooking in our house. When I start cooking I fill up the sink with super hot water. As I cook and are done with a utensil or dish I put it into the hot water and when I have a second between things I wash the dirtied ones. After I get the food served I let the big items soak while we eat and when we are done I finish them up. Really by doing it in small increments it is not that bad of a job. The only problem I find is when the strainer gets filled.
Quote: WizardPersonally, I thought gremlins got in there an cleaned the dishes.
Don't you know what happens to Gremlins who get wet?
Quote: WizardIs it just me or does anything else think that we're all suckers to use dishwashers?
...
Don't tell me that some washers don't require pre-cleaning. I'll believe that when I see it with my own eyes.
We wash our dishes by hand, and everyone gets to wash their own. We must do this because we have 6 kids in the house and we would need to run a few loads a day, often having a large pile of dishes waiting for the machine to free up. The problem is that my 16 year old daughter doesn't think it's important to wash the bottom of a plate or the handle of a fork. Often, I need to call kids back to have them re-wash dishes. Ideally, we should have an industrial washer with a 90 second cycle.
As for pre-washing dishes, I think it is beneficial to pre-wash for any machine if only to extend the life of the machine.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm not sure what the point is of having money if you are not going to enjoy it.
Early retirement.
Quote: GWAEWhen I start cooking I fill up the sink with super hot water. As I cook and are done with a utensil or dish I put it into the hot water and when I have a second between things I wash the dirtied ones.
Oy! If I had a penny for every time I've thought I was done with a utensil and then needed it again, I'd be rich (well, richer).
I do wash some things while the food in the stove can cook wihtout supervision. But at the end there is always at least one pot or pan, one spatula and one spoon that need washing. Often more than one pot or pan.
And the teflon is delicate, too. I think I'll start replacing everything with ceramic coating stuff, as it doens't get so dirty to begin with, and cleans a lot more easily to continue.
Quote: odiousgambitIs 8% something reasonable? It should be something more than the 3% or so assumed for inflation. 8% is used a lot for conservative calculations.
I've used 7% as a conservative estimate of a balanced stock/bond portfolio. The 4% safe withdrawal rate is based on that 7% minus the 3% inflation.
Quote: AcesAndEightsEarly retirement.
Yeah, sure, but there is a balance. You have to enjoy life now as well as later.
I don't think that it makes much sense to be miserable now, and save all your money so that you are rich when you are too old and senile to enjoy it (if you're lucky enough to live that long). Life is short; enjoy it. I'm not saying that I spend every cent that I earn, but I don't save it all either. Again, there is a balance.
Quote: AxelWolfActually if we used more dishes, like we used to. Two dishwashers would be better then 1. Once dishwasher is full start it. Leave dishes in the dishwasher until needed. after you use a dish put it on the other dishwasher. Rotate back and forth.
One of my friends recently remodeled his kitchen and got a fancy two-level dishwasher. He can essentially use this system, and it's even better for him since he lives alone (used to be a 2-person household) so there is less waiting to run a load, since it is half the capacity.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYeah, sure, but there is a balance. You have to enjoy life now as well as later.
I don't think that it makes much sense to be miserable now, and save all your money so that you are rich when you are too old and senile to enjoy it (if you're lucky enough to live that long). Life is short; enjoy it. I'm not saying that I spend every cent that I earn, but I don't save it all either. Again, there is a balance.
It is a balance, true. But as a Mustachian I tend to save way more than the average American and hope to retire around 40 (currently about 30). Now I won't be able to start spending money like it's going out of style when I retire; I will just continue the modest lifestyle I have established before retiring. Anyway, eating out is rare event for me these days, preferring to save that money. Of course I really hate working and have rarely truly enjoyed my job. So there's that too.
Quote: AcesAndEightsIt is a balance, true. But as a Mustachian I tend to save way more than the average American and hope to retire around 40 (currently about 30). Now I won't be able to start spending money like it's going out of style when I retire; I will just continue the modest lifestyle I have established before retiring. Anyway, eating out is rare event for me these days, preferring to save that money. Of course I really hate working and have rarely truly enjoyed my job. So there's that too.
Yeah I really hate working too. Do we work at the same company?
I save a lot more than most Americans too (hell, I save more than most Americans make). I just think that a lot of people take this way too far.
Quote: NareedOy! If I had a penny for every time I've thought I was done with a utensil and then needed it again, I'd be rich (well, richer).
I do wash some things while the food in the stove can cook wihtout supervision. But at the end there is always at least one pot or pan, one spatula and one spoon that need washing. Often more than one pot or pan.
And the teflon is delicate, too. I think I'll start replacing everything with ceramic coating stuff, as it doens't get so dirty to begin with, and cleans a lot more easily to continue.
oh yeah for sure there is always something left or I have to use something again. Whenever my wife cooks there are dirty dishes everywhere and at the end I want to scream because it takes forever to get them all washed. In reality it probably takes me longer to do them since I start and stop but it just feels easier.
16 year old daughter: Future yachtie there I think. Thats how it done on a yacht. Fresh water is just to valuable to ever stack dishes on top of each other and therefore have to wash both sides.
Solution of Extremists: Get a commercial autoclave. It starts with the valve open to drive off water vapor, then after six minutes you close it and it heats everything real hot and clean.
Wine lovers: Dishwasher in a draw ... looks just like part of the furniture. Does your glassware real good.
Enjoy life now or later. Try for both but remember the lines from The Last Don.. "I'll get you sooner or later" ..."Then it will have to be sooner because for you there is no later". One guy I know showed up for work and his first day on the job was someone's last day: the soon to retire employee stepped back to admire the final task he had performed and fell off the gantry. It was nine stories down. He landed next to his pickup that was laden with his fishing gear. He never collected even his final paycheck much less his first pension check.
Quote: GWAEOh yeah at casinos I will use every last penny. In this case though it was an out of the blue, "hey everyone I am buying lunch today." We work in a small office and everyone ordered way above normal. I think it is just common courtesy to order normal and not take advantage of it. If I were him I would never offer to buy again.
But then again, the comps you get at a casino is not "free" such as the lunch offer from your boss. You have every rightto spend every last penny of that offer or of the comps as you had earned or "paid" for them upfront. The boss-lunch issue is much more simple. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, especially if that horse is your boss and even more especially if he has a KICK!!!
Quote: djatcI used to use plastic plates and utensils. Toss it after I'm done. No cleanup required. Now I just eat out everyday.
....and that's why I believe you will eat at least 85 nuggets at the challenge, no worries :)
I know these things are very fluid and based on lifestyle choices and the like. I was just wondering, what is the average?
Let's say you want to retire at 60, you own your home and 2 cars. You take one or two vacations a year and you and your partner have hobbies....
How much, in USD, would you guys say is enough?
Quote: TomspurBased on some of the conversations between Axiom and Aces, how much money do you think an average person needs to have saved in both their savings and 401k's to be able to retire comfortably?
I know these things are very fluid and based on lifestyle choices and the like. I was just wondering, what is the average?
Let's say you want to retire at 60, you own your home and 2 cars. You take one or two vacations a year and you and your partner have hobbies....
How much, in USD, would you guys say is enough?
Clearly it is very different depending on age and standard of living. I have given this a little thought and think for my wife and I to live similiar to how we do now, it would take over a million for every ten years that we expect to live after retirement. So for us to retire now I would estimate that we need about 3 million.
Quote: TomspurBased on some of the conversations between Axiom and Aces, how much money do you think an average person needs to have saved in both their savings and 401k's to be able to retire comfortably?
I know these things are very fluid and based on lifestyle choices and the like. I was just wondering, what is the average?
Let's say you want to retire at 60, you own your home and 2 cars. You take one or two vacations a year and you and your partner have hobbies....
How much, in USD, would you guys say is enough?
The rule of thumb touted a lot of places is to assume a 4% "safe" rate of withdrawal (after factoring in ~8% interest - 3% inflation,) which means 25x your annual expenses. And this would be living off interest alone, and leaving the principal untouched.
Quote: DRichClearly it is very different depending on age and standard of living. I have given this a little thought and think for my wife and I to live similiar to how we do now, it would take over a million for every ten years that we expect to live after retirement.
So based on that and taking into account the average age that men and women live to in the US (81-women, 76-men = average of 78.5 assuming your wife will keep the same lifestyle and spend, just for arguments sake) it means that you will need approximately $1.85 million.
I too have been giving this thing a lot of thought as my wife and I got together pretty late in life and started our 401k's pretty late too. If we want to retire by 60 I need to be saving more than double than what I am now. We really are relying on career advancement in order to get to our goals.
It is kinda keeping me awake at night a little :)
Quote: wudgedThe rule of thumb touted a lot of places is to assume a 4% "safe" rate of withdrawal (after factoring in ~8% interest - 3% inflation,) which means 25x your annual expenses. And this would be living off interest alone, and leaving the principal untouched.
That is a nice and neat formula.
So for your retirement you will require 25 times your annual expenses?
OK then :)
Quote: TomspurSo based on that and taking into account the average age that men and women live to in the US (81-women, 76-men = average of 78.5 assuming your wife will keep the same lifestyle and spend, just for arguments sake) it means that you will need approximately $1.85 million.
I too have been giving this thing a lot of thought as my wife and I got together pretty late in life and started our 401k's pretty late too. If we want to retire by 60 I need to be saving more than double than what I am now. We really are relying on career advancement in order to get to our goals.
It is kinda keeping me awake at night a little :)
I will be working until the day I die. I will be one of those old men working as a greater in Walmart.
Quote: TomspurThat is a nice and neat formula.
So for your retirement you will require 25 times your annual expenses?
OK then :)
Yes, so if you can live off $50,000 a year then you would need roughly $1,250,000. The 4% "safe" rate would kick off the $50,000 needed for your expenses each year.
Quote: GWAEI will be working until the day I die. I will be one of those old men working as a greater in Walmart.
There is no shame in that....considering the above advice, I may not have much of a choice either :)
My wife told me a while ago that all of her lineage basically always work until they die or are placed into a nursing home for old age. I wanted to give her something to look forward to......looks like it may be more difficult than I thought :)
Quote: TomspurThere is no shame in that....considering the above advice, I may not have much of a choice either :)
My wife told me a while ago that all of her lineage basically always work until they die or are placed into a nursing home for old age. I wanted to give her something to look forward to......looks like it may be more difficult than I thought :)
It is a difficult decision to make. My wife and I have had this discussion many times. We live on a very tight budget since she decided to stay home to raise our kids. There are months that we barely make it and there are months when we have a little extra. On those little extra months we should probably put it away for retirement but we usually decide to have some fun. We know it is being irresponsible but what if I die of a heart attack tomorrow. I would rather live my current live to the fullest instead of hoping I live long enough to spend it.
Quote: GWAEIt is a difficult decision to make. My wife and I have had this discussion many times. We live on a very tight budget since she decided to stay home to raise our kids. There are months that we barely make it and there are months when we have a little extra. On those little extra months we should probably put it away for retirement but we usually decide to have some fun. We know it is being irresponsible but what if I die of a heart attack tomorrow. I would rather live my current live to the fullest instead of hoping I live long enough to spend it.
I could really do with a little more of your type of attitude, i really could. I'm wayyy too cautious and need to live my life a little more than I do.
Quote: TomspurI could really do with a little more of your type of attitude, i really could. I'm wayyy too cautious and need to live my life a little more than I do.
but in 20 years I am probably going to be like, damn it why was I not like Tom.
Quote: GWAEbut in 20 years I am probably going to be like, damn it why was I not like Tom.
I guess in that lies the crux......like Mr. Miyagi said to Daniel Larusso...."Better learn balance. Balance is key. Balance good, karate good. Everything good. Balance bad, better pack up go home. Understand?"
Quote: TomspurThat is a nice and neat formula.
So for your retirement you will require 25 times your annual expenses?
OK then :)
The problem with this is that it assumes that you never touch the principle. Unless you feel that you will live forever (good luck with that) it's overly-conservative.
Of course you don't know exactly how long you will live. You can insure against living too long with annuities, but unfortunately they tend to be a terrible deal.
Quote: Mission146I feel better than I have felt in years.
You either quit smoking or your divorce is final..... :)
Yes.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, you want to retire with an oil field and 50 years worth of canned food?
