My Doctor Had Pig Tails
November 16th, 2013 at 6:30:03 AM
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I went out to dinner on Friday evening with my wife the beautiful AP. I had two martini glasses of chilled Belvedere and a delicious filet mignon. Since I started eating filet mignon when an intern of GTC sent me some (the best ever!) I have become a ravenous red meat eater: hot sausages, pork, steak, hamburgers.
On Saturday morning I woke up with a real pain in my middle toe of my right foot. I was sitting at the computer whining (I am a great whiner) and AP came over and wanted to know why I was moaning.
“I think I may have broken my toe,” I said. “Look.” I held up my foot. The middle toe, up and down and just below, was swollen red.
“Do you remember what you did?” she asked.
“I don’t remember hitting it or stubbing it,” I said. “And I wasn’t drunk or anything last night.”
So all day long AP and I tried to figure out what could be causing this redness and pain – and I mean PAIN. I must have broken the damn toe; what else could it be?
We decided to go to the doctor Sunday morning (actually the beautiful AP decided while I moaned my agreement). In my area we have what we call a “Doc-in-the-Box,” which is the medical equivalent of a fast-food restaurant. There are always three doctors on duty; several physician’s assistants and a bunch of nurses and technicians. My regular doctor takes about three weeks to see, so we go to the Doc-in-the-Box for flu shots and colds and things that don’t allow for three-week waits.
We always get there a half hour before it opens because I don’t want to wait inside with all those sick people. I have no idea how many patients actually die after coming home from the Doc-in-the-Box, not from what they went in with, but from what they caught waiting with 50 other dribbling, sniveling, coughing, sneezing, grunting patients and vomiting children (usually into buckets mommy brought) in the waiting room. I don’t mind waiting a half hour outside to be the first one in.
So I signed in when it opened and the nurse/technician called my name, “Frank Scoblete.” I turned to AP and said, “My God, the guy pronounced the name right.”
I went in and the nurse/technician looked over my files. “So you been playing a lot of craps and blackjack lately?” I looked over at him. Maybe he was a fan? “I had you as a teacher many years ago. I’m Brandon Gas.” He turned around and damn, I recognized him.
“You’re a nurse?” I asked.
“That and the head of the X-Ray department. I am going to take your vitals.”
“His blood pressure will shoot through the roof at first. He has white coat syndrome,” said AP.
“No problem,” said Brandon. “You here for your foot?”
“Do you want to see it?” asked AP.
“No, the doctor will take care of that,” said Brandon.
“Good,” I said, “you don’t want to see how disgusting my toes are. After all I am your ex-teacher. I need some dignity.”
“I want him weighed too,” said AP firmly. “Every time he goes to the doctor he cons the nurses into putting down 210 pounds and he is fatter than that.”
“I have a lot of muscle,” I said. “Muscle weighs more.”
So my blood pressure was through the roof the first time; then it went down to almost normal the second time. My temperature was normal.
“The doctor will be right in and then I’ll be taking x-rays,” said Brandon, leaving the room.
“I don’t want to get weighed,” I said.
“You’re getting weighed,” said AP.
In a few minutes the doctor walked in. Actually she was so young, she could have skipped in. And, my Lord, she was wearing pig-tails! PIG-TAILS!
“So your toe hurts?” she said.
“Yes,” I said. “Uh, you are wearing pig-tails.”
“I know. I got a hair cut yesterday and I can’t do anything with it,” she said.
“Oh, I have those problems too,” said AP and the two of them started to discuss going to beauty parlors. Meanwhile my toe felt like the Incredible Hulk was gnawing on it.
After four months of their conversation, I squeaked: “My toe is killing me.”
“Okay, let me see the little fellow,” she said as I took off my sock.
She looked at it.
“I must have broken it,” I said. “I’ve been handling the pain though.”
“By whining,” said AP.
“Well, whining works for me,” I said.
“You have gout,” said the doctor in pig-tails.
AP and I were silent. Gout? I’ve heard the word but gout? I had gout? Gout? The damn toe felt broken. “Are you sure it’s not broken? I mean it hurts like hell,” I said.
“Gout hurts like hell,” she said twirling one of her pig tails. “Brandon will take x-rays and we will take blood samples but you’ve got gout. After the x-rays I’ll see you back in here.” Then she left the examining room to go play jump rope. A minute later, Brandon came back in.
“Okay, King Scobe,” he said (my students always called me King Scobe and I am a king, damn it, at least in my own tortured mind) and I followed him into the x-ray room. “Okay, take your socks off.”
“My feet are disgusting,” I said. “But they won’t smell because I took a shower this morning and sprinkled some cologne on them.”
“Don’t worry about it,” he smiled, “I’ve seen everything.”
So x-rays were taken. When Brandon opened the door for us to leave the x-ray room, AP was waiting – like a damn vulture. “The scale is there,” she said pointing. The damn scale was about four feet away against the wall. “Make him get on it,” she said to Brandon.
“Woe, woe, wait a minute,” I said. “He’s a former student; you can’t make him make me do anything. I mean I am his former teacher.”
“Best teacher I ever had,” smiled Brandon. That was really nice to hear. I had an ally now against the powerful natural force known as the beautiful AP! “But King Scobe, you should really weigh yourself,” said Brandon. TRAITOR! You can’t trust anyone nowadays.
But I was defeated. I hobbled to the scale; got on and was fatter than 210 pounds. I turned to AP, “Well, I’m not as fat as you thought I was.”
Back in the examining room, the doctor in pig-tails came in. “X-rays are fine; you have gout. Now, the prescription I am writing for you will get rid of it.”
“Oh, good, good,” I said.
“You stop taking it as soon as you get better…” she smiled. “Or when you get a case of diarrhea.”
“A what? I get what?”
“You stop when you feel better or get diarrhea,” she said.
“You’re kind of young,” I said. “Are you allowed to say the word ‘diarrhea’?”
“Not everyone gets diarrhea but it happens to most,” she smiled.
“If you get diarrhea the toe will probably feel better too,” she said. “Also do not eat red meat or drink vodka.” [There is no justice in the universe!!!] “A lot of this comes from the ‘rich man’s diet’ as they used to call it. Check out the Internet about this.”
“Ah, no booze…” started AP.
“No, no vodka,” I said.
“No booze is better,” said the doctor in pig-tails.
“I can’t get a break,” I said.
Leaving the doctor in pig-tails, in the car I said, “Well, not everyone gets diarrhea. Even if I do a couple of wet craps and that’s that.”
Last night “that’s that” hit the fan! I had diarrhea for 12 straight hours! I never realized I had that much liquid in me. My butt hole burned as if someone had used a flame thrower on it.
I was moaning in the bathroom; not so much from the “that’s that” hitting the fan but from the agony of my you-know-what being on fire.
“Make sure you drink plenty of water,” said AP. “I’m going to sleep.”
But she really didn’t get to sleep because I kept coming back to bed for a minute or two and I’d whisper in her ear, “I’m dying.” Then I’d leap up and run to the bathroom.
The “that’s that” was somewhat productive. I read the latest book on Alex Rodriguez during my 12 hour ordeal. AP also told me that Benjamin Franklin had gout. I was in good company.
This morning, after those 12 hours, I called to AP as she was leaving for the library, “Let’s weigh me now, baby, I’ll bet I am a lot thinner!”
On Saturday morning I woke up with a real pain in my middle toe of my right foot. I was sitting at the computer whining (I am a great whiner) and AP came over and wanted to know why I was moaning.
“I think I may have broken my toe,” I said. “Look.” I held up my foot. The middle toe, up and down and just below, was swollen red.
“Do you remember what you did?” she asked.
“I don’t remember hitting it or stubbing it,” I said. “And I wasn’t drunk or anything last night.”
So all day long AP and I tried to figure out what could be causing this redness and pain – and I mean PAIN. I must have broken the damn toe; what else could it be?
We decided to go to the doctor Sunday morning (actually the beautiful AP decided while I moaned my agreement). In my area we have what we call a “Doc-in-the-Box,” which is the medical equivalent of a fast-food restaurant. There are always three doctors on duty; several physician’s assistants and a bunch of nurses and technicians. My regular doctor takes about three weeks to see, so we go to the Doc-in-the-Box for flu shots and colds and things that don’t allow for three-week waits.
We always get there a half hour before it opens because I don’t want to wait inside with all those sick people. I have no idea how many patients actually die after coming home from the Doc-in-the-Box, not from what they went in with, but from what they caught waiting with 50 other dribbling, sniveling, coughing, sneezing, grunting patients and vomiting children (usually into buckets mommy brought) in the waiting room. I don’t mind waiting a half hour outside to be the first one in.
So I signed in when it opened and the nurse/technician called my name, “Frank Scoblete.” I turned to AP and said, “My God, the guy pronounced the name right.”
I went in and the nurse/technician looked over my files. “So you been playing a lot of craps and blackjack lately?” I looked over at him. Maybe he was a fan? “I had you as a teacher many years ago. I’m Brandon Gas.” He turned around and damn, I recognized him.
“You’re a nurse?” I asked.
“That and the head of the X-Ray department. I am going to take your vitals.”
“His blood pressure will shoot through the roof at first. He has white coat syndrome,” said AP.
“No problem,” said Brandon. “You here for your foot?”
“Do you want to see it?” asked AP.
“No, the doctor will take care of that,” said Brandon.
“Good,” I said, “you don’t want to see how disgusting my toes are. After all I am your ex-teacher. I need some dignity.”
“I want him weighed too,” said AP firmly. “Every time he goes to the doctor he cons the nurses into putting down 210 pounds and he is fatter than that.”
“I have a lot of muscle,” I said. “Muscle weighs more.”
So my blood pressure was through the roof the first time; then it went down to almost normal the second time. My temperature was normal.
“The doctor will be right in and then I’ll be taking x-rays,” said Brandon, leaving the room.
“I don’t want to get weighed,” I said.
“You’re getting weighed,” said AP.
In a few minutes the doctor walked in. Actually she was so young, she could have skipped in. And, my Lord, she was wearing pig-tails! PIG-TAILS!
“So your toe hurts?” she said.
“Yes,” I said. “Uh, you are wearing pig-tails.”
“I know. I got a hair cut yesterday and I can’t do anything with it,” she said.
“Oh, I have those problems too,” said AP and the two of them started to discuss going to beauty parlors. Meanwhile my toe felt like the Incredible Hulk was gnawing on it.
After four months of their conversation, I squeaked: “My toe is killing me.”
“Okay, let me see the little fellow,” she said as I took off my sock.
She looked at it.
“I must have broken it,” I said. “I’ve been handling the pain though.”
“By whining,” said AP.
“Well, whining works for me,” I said.
“You have gout,” said the doctor in pig-tails.
AP and I were silent. Gout? I’ve heard the word but gout? I had gout? Gout? The damn toe felt broken. “Are you sure it’s not broken? I mean it hurts like hell,” I said.
“Gout hurts like hell,” she said twirling one of her pig tails. “Brandon will take x-rays and we will take blood samples but you’ve got gout. After the x-rays I’ll see you back in here.” Then she left the examining room to go play jump rope. A minute later, Brandon came back in.
“Okay, King Scobe,” he said (my students always called me King Scobe and I am a king, damn it, at least in my own tortured mind) and I followed him into the x-ray room. “Okay, take your socks off.”
“My feet are disgusting,” I said. “But they won’t smell because I took a shower this morning and sprinkled some cologne on them.”
“Don’t worry about it,” he smiled, “I’ve seen everything.”
So x-rays were taken. When Brandon opened the door for us to leave the x-ray room, AP was waiting – like a damn vulture. “The scale is there,” she said pointing. The damn scale was about four feet away against the wall. “Make him get on it,” she said to Brandon.
“Woe, woe, wait a minute,” I said. “He’s a former student; you can’t make him make me do anything. I mean I am his former teacher.”
“Best teacher I ever had,” smiled Brandon. That was really nice to hear. I had an ally now against the powerful natural force known as the beautiful AP! “But King Scobe, you should really weigh yourself,” said Brandon. TRAITOR! You can’t trust anyone nowadays.
But I was defeated. I hobbled to the scale; got on and was fatter than 210 pounds. I turned to AP, “Well, I’m not as fat as you thought I was.”
Back in the examining room, the doctor in pig-tails came in. “X-rays are fine; you have gout. Now, the prescription I am writing for you will get rid of it.”
“Oh, good, good,” I said.
“You stop taking it as soon as you get better…” she smiled. “Or when you get a case of diarrhea.”
“A what? I get what?”
“You stop when you feel better or get diarrhea,” she said.
“You’re kind of young,” I said. “Are you allowed to say the word ‘diarrhea’?”
“Not everyone gets diarrhea but it happens to most,” she smiled.
“If you get diarrhea the toe will probably feel better too,” she said. “Also do not eat red meat or drink vodka.” [There is no justice in the universe!!!] “A lot of this comes from the ‘rich man’s diet’ as they used to call it. Check out the Internet about this.”
“Ah, no booze…” started AP.
“No, no vodka,” I said.
“No booze is better,” said the doctor in pig-tails.
“I can’t get a break,” I said.
Leaving the doctor in pig-tails, in the car I said, “Well, not everyone gets diarrhea. Even if I do a couple of wet craps and that’s that.”
Last night “that’s that” hit the fan! I had diarrhea for 12 straight hours! I never realized I had that much liquid in me. My butt hole burned as if someone had used a flame thrower on it.
I was moaning in the bathroom; not so much from the “that’s that” hitting the fan but from the agony of my you-know-what being on fire.
“Make sure you drink plenty of water,” said AP. “I’m going to sleep.”
But she really didn’t get to sleep because I kept coming back to bed for a minute or two and I’d whisper in her ear, “I’m dying.” Then I’d leap up and run to the bathroom.
The “that’s that” was somewhat productive. I read the latest book on Alex Rodriguez during my 12 hour ordeal. AP also told me that Benjamin Franklin had gout. I was in good company.
This morning, after those 12 hours, I called to AP as she was leaving for the library, “Let’s weigh me now, baby, I’ll bet I am a lot thinner!”
November 16th, 2013 at 8:19:35 AM
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Oh yeah....that's gout alright. The cure is just as bad as the disease. I got my first episode of gout in about '94, and it was awful. Since then, it hit me 2-3 times a year, and I figured that was the price I pay for being a heavy meat-eater and drinker. But in the last couple years I seem to have a low-level of gout all the time, enough so I can no longer play tennis or hike. Websites tell me constant foot pain could be pre-diabetes. So Frank, you could have that to look forward to if you don't change your diet.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
November 16th, 2013 at 8:43:35 AM
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lol nice story.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
November 16th, 2013 at 9:19:00 AM
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Quote: FrankScoblete“Woe, woe, wait a minute,”
I see what you did there.
November 16th, 2013 at 9:34:00 AM
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Strange.
First onset of gout is usually a nighttime in March or April... (Northern Hemisphere).
Yeah, I know... them uric acid crystals are supposed to be able to read a calendar. How would uric acid know it was night? How would uric acid know it was Spring? Doesn't this onset data suggest the role of a microbial agent? If a microbial agent is at work is it really "Rich Man's Diet". Or as they say "Rich Man's Diet... My foot!!!" (followed by laughter since The Gout (us scholarly types never say "gout" we always say "The Gout") usually does relate to the foot. Note: Rich Man's Diet nothing!! A Rich Man with gout goes to a doctor and obtains a diagnosis. A poor man with gout, limps and moans but can't afford a doctor. Microbes rarely select a host based upon a host's wallet. Its social and economic factors that make people think gout is limited to or more prevalent in the rich.
Xray? Usual confirmation is aspiration of synovial fluid from the affected joint. If insufficient fluid is able to be aspirated the external surface of the sharp may actually be sent to the lab. The confirming test is the presence of what are shown to be uric acid crystals, not merely high levels of uric acid.
Oh.... and while we are at it. Let's get this stuff about synovial fluid straight.
Its simple. And its TOTALLY imaginary.
Yeah, that's right I said imaginary. We "imagine" based on utterly invalid assumptions because that is all we can do.
First of all. Synovial means "like an egg" because early scholars thought the fluid was similar to the albumin proteins of an egg.
They were pretty sensible back then. Very little has changed. Why? Because ain't nobody never studied synovial fluid.
Here is the straight dope on Synovial Fluid.
We THINK its all the same in the various joints, but we don't really know for sure. So solely out laziness "synovial" means the same for toes, knees, knuckles and elbows, etc.
We THINK its okay to base all our statements on studies of SORE knee joints but that is only because researchers are too lazy or too damned concerned about ethics to ever study NORMAL joints, particularly normal knee joints. Most studies are based on sore knee joints. We don't really know about normal Knee joints.
Intelligence levels of people with high uric acid levels... yeah, yeah its probably true. Smart people do have high levels, but there is a great deal of selection bias at play too. Also remember that word "normal" when it comes to laboratory tests is really really a bad term to use. And its often politically and economically defined. (Just look at testosterone levels... a man can test in the bottom 5 percent of serum testosterone...and be declared normal because insurance companies don't want to pay for viagra or hormone treatments). I asked one sailor serving on a carrier if he were consistently in the last five percent to be admitted to the chow line and consistently in the last five percent to be issued a pay check and the last five percent to be issued an evaluation and the last fiver percent in grip strength ... would he really consider himself to be "normal" just because the Navy doctor declared him to be normal?
Well, enough of this word "normal".
Now just think how it would be wonderful if ANY invading organism could find an on/off switch for the immune response.
Nature's way is to have invaded cells fly "signal flags" of a diseased state that signal general ill health as well as specific invaders. High uric acid levels are part of the On/Off switch for the immune response.
Okay... back to The Gout. (Yeah, "The" Gout... I gotta sound intelligent you know).
Too too many indicators of an infectious agent for it to be solely uric acid crystals.
heck, how would uric acid crystals know you were on the Atkins Diet? Or know you were eating copious quantities of foie gras?
How would uric acid crystals in "a joint" be affected but that effect be so darned localized and unilateral? Why is onset usually in a joint that has suffered prior injury, such as prior animal bite injury?
Ever get tested for Paturella Multicida? Gout sufferers rarely get tested for it so of course its role in the etiology of gout is unknown.
Trigger for gout? Do you really think that One serving of a suspect item would have an effect on systemic levels of uric acid and therefore on gout pain? One swallow of an Australian beverage and an intensification of gout pain in a matter of hours? One swig of a fortified Spanish Wine? One day of low water intake? One serving of mushrooms?
Sure there are structural coincidences in nature. There is absolutely no great evolutionary reason for humans to be allergic to the dander of dust mites... but when that dander of dust mites bears a structural similarity to the venom of a scorpion we understand why certain people would be reactive. Should we consider them lucky or unlucky? Its the same with a uniquely strong reaction to a gout trigger? Lucky or unlucky is relative, but it sure ain't just uric acid levels. Far, far more is at work here. Heck, even the dosage for the folk relief agent, dark cherries, is the same: until diarrhea sets in, but no one wants to investigate gut bacteria versus bacteria inside the synovial fluid? And no one wants to investigate why nighttime and why Spring onset? Must be them gluttony rich men: more greedy in the Spring that at other times of the year.
First onset of gout is usually a nighttime in March or April... (Northern Hemisphere).
Yeah, I know... them uric acid crystals are supposed to be able to read a calendar. How would uric acid know it was night? How would uric acid know it was Spring? Doesn't this onset data suggest the role of a microbial agent? If a microbial agent is at work is it really "Rich Man's Diet". Or as they say "Rich Man's Diet... My foot!!!" (followed by laughter since The Gout (us scholarly types never say "gout" we always say "The Gout") usually does relate to the foot. Note: Rich Man's Diet nothing!! A Rich Man with gout goes to a doctor and obtains a diagnosis. A poor man with gout, limps and moans but can't afford a doctor. Microbes rarely select a host based upon a host's wallet. Its social and economic factors that make people think gout is limited to or more prevalent in the rich.
Xray? Usual confirmation is aspiration of synovial fluid from the affected joint. If insufficient fluid is able to be aspirated the external surface of the sharp may actually be sent to the lab. The confirming test is the presence of what are shown to be uric acid crystals, not merely high levels of uric acid.
Oh.... and while we are at it. Let's get this stuff about synovial fluid straight.
Its simple. And its TOTALLY imaginary.
Yeah, that's right I said imaginary. We "imagine" based on utterly invalid assumptions because that is all we can do.
First of all. Synovial means "like an egg" because early scholars thought the fluid was similar to the albumin proteins of an egg.
They were pretty sensible back then. Very little has changed. Why? Because ain't nobody never studied synovial fluid.
Here is the straight dope on Synovial Fluid.
We THINK its all the same in the various joints, but we don't really know for sure. So solely out laziness "synovial" means the same for toes, knees, knuckles and elbows, etc.
We THINK its okay to base all our statements on studies of SORE knee joints but that is only because researchers are too lazy or too damned concerned about ethics to ever study NORMAL joints, particularly normal knee joints. Most studies are based on sore knee joints. We don't really know about normal Knee joints.
Intelligence levels of people with high uric acid levels... yeah, yeah its probably true. Smart people do have high levels, but there is a great deal of selection bias at play too. Also remember that word "normal" when it comes to laboratory tests is really really a bad term to use. And its often politically and economically defined. (Just look at testosterone levels... a man can test in the bottom 5 percent of serum testosterone...and be declared normal because insurance companies don't want to pay for viagra or hormone treatments). I asked one sailor serving on a carrier if he were consistently in the last five percent to be admitted to the chow line and consistently in the last five percent to be issued a pay check and the last five percent to be issued an evaluation and the last fiver percent in grip strength ... would he really consider himself to be "normal" just because the Navy doctor declared him to be normal?
Well, enough of this word "normal".
Now just think how it would be wonderful if ANY invading organism could find an on/off switch for the immune response.
Nature's way is to have invaded cells fly "signal flags" of a diseased state that signal general ill health as well as specific invaders. High uric acid levels are part of the On/Off switch for the immune response.
Okay... back to The Gout. (Yeah, "The" Gout... I gotta sound intelligent you know).
Too too many indicators of an infectious agent for it to be solely uric acid crystals.
heck, how would uric acid crystals know you were on the Atkins Diet? Or know you were eating copious quantities of foie gras?
How would uric acid crystals in "a joint" be affected but that effect be so darned localized and unilateral? Why is onset usually in a joint that has suffered prior injury, such as prior animal bite injury?
Ever get tested for Paturella Multicida? Gout sufferers rarely get tested for it so of course its role in the etiology of gout is unknown.
Trigger for gout? Do you really think that One serving of a suspect item would have an effect on systemic levels of uric acid and therefore on gout pain? One swallow of an Australian beverage and an intensification of gout pain in a matter of hours? One swig of a fortified Spanish Wine? One day of low water intake? One serving of mushrooms?
Sure there are structural coincidences in nature. There is absolutely no great evolutionary reason for humans to be allergic to the dander of dust mites... but when that dander of dust mites bears a structural similarity to the venom of a scorpion we understand why certain people would be reactive. Should we consider them lucky or unlucky? Its the same with a uniquely strong reaction to a gout trigger? Lucky or unlucky is relative, but it sure ain't just uric acid levels. Far, far more is at work here. Heck, even the dosage for the folk relief agent, dark cherries, is the same: until diarrhea sets in, but no one wants to investigate gut bacteria versus bacteria inside the synovial fluid? And no one wants to investigate why nighttime and why Spring onset? Must be them gluttony rich men: more greedy in the Spring that at other times of the year.
November 16th, 2013 at 11:03:37 AM
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Health food store. Black cherry juice. A glass or two a day, it won't come back.
November 16th, 2013 at 1:57:52 PM
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If we are dealing with a "bug" can't we find anti-bodies that show us what this "bug" is?
Next: Why black cherry juice or are you pulling my leg (or gouted toe)?
Next: Why black cherry juice or are you pulling my leg (or gouted toe)?
November 16th, 2013 at 2:10:01 PM
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Frank definitely has a talent to make any story-type entertaining. Hope you feel better soon!
November 16th, 2013 at 2:19:38 PM
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. No, not always. Its a cumbersome process to find antibodies... first the body has to make them and their discovery is usually through antigen presenting cells and other cell surface mechanisms, but "bugs" often shed their cell walls when stressed and exist as "L bodies" which are tiny bits of dna without a cell wall and are virtually invisible the body and to our tests that rely on cell walls. We can deal with soldiers, soldiers in camoflage and soldiers wearing the wrong uniform, but we see nothing if the soldiers suddenly go naked. Besides...as with anything else, you rarely see what you don't look for.Quote: FrankScobleteIf we are dealing with a "bug" can't we find anti-bodies that show us what this "bug" is?
>Next: Why black cherry juice or are you pulling my leg (or gouted toe)?
Nope quite serious. Dark cherries. High procyanthin content. Not pulling your leg at all.
Pretty much the same reason as wine from the Gers region is so healthful and so many nonogenarians live there.
November 16th, 2013 at 2:32:08 PM
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Quote: FrankScobleteIf we are dealing with a "bug" can't we find anti-bodies that show us what this "bug" is?
Next: Why black cherry juice or are you pulling my leg (or gouted toe)?
I have no idea. My doctor told me because his mom told him. It's worked for me and anyone I know who has tried it. Gout is caused by a build up of uric acid. Plenty of fluid along with the black cherry seems to flush it.
November 16th, 2013 at 2:55:15 PM
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Quantity in ounces of black cherry juice equivalent to 1 to 2 glasses would be...? Trying to estimate what I would need to buy to test the effectiveness. I have very good luck with 100% cranberry juice, no added sugar, in correcting various urinary and water retention problems, and it's in the grocery store, often on sale, not at a specialty store with higher prices. Are there any similar properties between the two, or do they have different effects on body chemistry? Also, V8 fusion has a black cherry-mixed flavor, though my local (small) grocer doesn't carry it; would something like that, with the actual juice present, work as well?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
November 16th, 2013 at 3:00:48 PM
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I had my first gout attack in 1987 and was on
crutches for a week. I've been taking Allopurinol
for 15 years and haven't been bothered. That
first attack was amazing, they say on a pain
scale it's worse than childbirth or almost anything
else.
crutches for a week. I've been taking Allopurinol
for 15 years and haven't been bothered. That
first attack was amazing, they say on a pain
scale it's worse than childbirth or almost anything
else.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 16th, 2013 at 3:04:45 PM
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The pain is unbearable. For me whining is about the best response.
November 16th, 2013 at 3:05:11 PM
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And what about hawthorne berries? Where does it fall on the scale of high procyanthins vs, say, black cherries, red wines, tomatoes, cranberries? And is the procyanthin what particularly counteracts uric acid, or is it some other antioxidant? Hawthorne wine might be a great choice....
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
November 16th, 2013 at 3:07:12 PM
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I don't know the answer to most of your questions babs. I use about an 8 ounce glass twice a day. I think it needs to be black cherry, there's a compound in it that's not generally found in other fruit juices. The cost isn't too bad and the stuff tastes pretty good.
November 16th, 2013 at 3:08:00 PM
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Quote: Sabretom2I don't know the answer to most of your questions babs. I use about an 8 ounce glass twice a day. I think it needs to be black cherry, there's a compound in it that's not generally found in other fruit juices. The cost isn't too bad and the stuff tastes pretty good.
Thanks, Sabretom!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
November 16th, 2013 at 3:10:56 PM
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Quote: FrankScobleteThe pain is unbearable. For me whining is about the best response.
I've found if you play it right and milk it moderately you can get some pretty good sympathy perks.
November 16th, 2013 at 4:19:04 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabsQuantity in ounces of black cherry juice equivalent to 1 to 2 glasses would be...? Trying to estimate what I would need to buy to test the effectiveness. I have very good luck with 100% cranberry juice, no added sugar, in correcting various urinary and water retention problems, and it's in the grocery store, often on sale, not at a specialty store with higher prices. Are there any similar properties between the two, or do they have different effects on body chemistry? Also, V8 fusion has a black cherry-mixed flavor, though my local (small) grocer doesn't carry it; would something like that, with the actual juice present, work as well?
Thanks in advance.
Ah, I'm glad you did not declare yourself as a gout sufferer. Females were often ignored if they complained of joint pains that in men would obviously be thought to be gout related. Then doctors started testing females ... and found gout was possible and far more common that ever imagined.
Cranberry juice and grapefruit juice can have an effect based on liver enzymes which depend on genetic markers. Cranberry juice can also have an effect based on pH values. Heck, even the Victorians consumed asparagus and noted its effect on urinary output.
Its hard to develop equivalency ratios since the effects are often subjective and no one really thinks that its all due to one or two chemicals but often to several. For juices its even more difficult due to relaxed standards for labels and legal definitions that vary. Often the specialty store simply means higher prices, not products that are more pure or more wholesome in any way. When you throw in alcohol labeling laws, it gets really complicated.
Its back to Gers, in France. A small wine making region. When they use 100 percent Tannat grapes and the older, longer fermenting methods the wine is thought to be extremely healthful not only due to specific constituents but also due to the high number of people in the region living well into their nineties. Of course in a rural area with fresh air and an outdoors lifestyle, long life is expected. Some of the healthiest enclaves in the world are also well known as being wind swept. Many of the compounds involved are minor irritants. The zest of a fruit is designed to protect the immature fruit from insects or small animals that would consume the fruit prior to the plant benefiting from it. So often the substances just under the rind of a fruit can have effects quite contrary to the fruit itself.
November 16th, 2013 at 4:53:17 PM
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Quote: EvenBobI had my first gout attack in 1987 and was on
crutches for a week. I've been taking Allopurinol
for 15 years and haven't been bothered. That
first attack was amazing, they say on a pain
scale it's worse than childbirth or almost anything
else.
its funny that you say that because I had kidney stones last month and thought I was dying. The doc said they are more painful than birth. I have heard different things are more painful than birth. It seems like woman are over reacting about this birth thing. haha j/k ladies.
But seriously, I think when you are at pain level 10; that is the most painful thing of your life. I don't think you can compare different things when they are all pain level 10.
I really hope I never get gout, or anything that is pain level 10 again. When you are in so much pain that you are puking your guts out then you know you are in serious pain.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
November 16th, 2013 at 5:38:44 PM
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Quote: Sabretom2Health food store. Black cherry juice. A glass or two a day, it won't come back.
Here's what you do, Frank. Take a tall rocks glass, fill halfway with Belvedere Vodka, top it off with black cherry juice and add ice.
Seriously, though, I've been trying for near 20 years now to discover the perfect balance. How much sin can I get away with and still avoid Hell? I haven't had a whole steak at one sitting in years because that'd be too much, but a taco is okay. A pan-full of sautéed chanterelles (with garlic and white wine) is waaaay too much, but a couple button mushrooms in spag sauce seems okay. Cherry tomatoes are an absolute killer; I would regret eating as few as 3 (it's just not fair!), but tomato sauce seems okay. I think too much sugar is a killer too; candy, cakes and such are out altogether. Shellfish is supposed to be off-limits, but life without crablegs or shrimp is hardly worth living. If I have 6 beers in 2 or 3 days, I know gout will attack on day 3, fer sure.
Every time I have a flare-up, I have to think back to what I ate 2 days ago. I even kept a diary of everything I put in my mouth back in about 2004 or so. I came across that diary recently and saw what-all I was eating before gout hit me and said to myself "Geez, no wonder, you dummy!" I was still learning then. Years of experience has enlightened me. If I can pass that advice along to even one person, then I did good. Gout is like heart attacks: once you get your first attack, subsequent ones come easier and easier.
Foods to avoid:
mushrooms, cherry tomatoes, beer, potatoes, peppers (anything from the nightshade family), red meat, red wine, shellfish, sugar of all kinds, sardines
Foods to eat to hopefully counteract gout, so I've heard:
artichokes, black cherries & tart cherries or their juices with no added sugar, cranberries, dandilion or nettles
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
November 16th, 2013 at 5:45:12 PM
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Quote: zippyboy
Foods to avoid:
mushrooms, cherry tomatoes, beer, potatoes, peppers (anything from the nightshade family), red meat, red wine, shellfish, sugar of all kinds, sardines
Foods to eat to hopefully counteract gout, so I've heard:
artichokes, black cherries & tart cherries or their juices with no added sugar, cranberries, dandilion or nettles
Mushrooms and beer are the worst,
even when taking Allopurinol. The foods that
are supposed to reduce uric acid don't work
at all for me. Best to avoid the foods that
cause it. Organ meat, like chicken livers are
another biggie to avoid.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 16th, 2013 at 5:47:13 PM
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I read "toe pain" and I knew it was going to be gout.
I get pseudogout: same symptoms, different crystal. Gout is monosodium urate, pseudogout is calcium pyrophosphate. It hurts like a bastard. I used to get it every 6 months or so, but then I didn't get it for years. Then I had it about a month ago. It hurt like a bastard.
Your doctor gave you colchicine. I took that (misdiagnosis of gout instead of pseudogout), it gave me horrible water brash and nausea. It is also used to force polyploidy (double chromosomes) in plants, specifically cannabis. It is heavy stuff.
Gout goes away, but it is one of those pains you remember. And it most commonly strikes toes, but it can strike any joint. I've had pseudogout in my ankle, knee, and wrist, as well as my toes. It hurts like a bastard, like a son of a bitch.
I get pseudogout: same symptoms, different crystal. Gout is monosodium urate, pseudogout is calcium pyrophosphate. It hurts like a bastard. I used to get it every 6 months or so, but then I didn't get it for years. Then I had it about a month ago. It hurt like a bastard.
Your doctor gave you colchicine. I took that (misdiagnosis of gout instead of pseudogout), it gave me horrible water brash and nausea. It is also used to force polyploidy (double chromosomes) in plants, specifically cannabis. It is heavy stuff.
Gout goes away, but it is one of those pains you remember. And it most commonly strikes toes, but it can strike any joint. I've had pseudogout in my ankle, knee, and wrist, as well as my toes. It hurts like a bastard, like a son of a bitch.
A falling knife has no handle.
November 16th, 2013 at 5:58:19 PM
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Quote: Mosca
Gout goes away, but it is one of those pains you remember. And it most commonly strikes toes, but it can strike any joint. I've had pseudogout in my ankle, knee, and wrist, as well as my toes. It hurts like a bastard, like a son of a bitch.
The knee is the worst. It immobilizes you, all
you can do is sit or lie down. It's like ground
glass is in your joints.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 16th, 2013 at 6:04:54 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThe knee is the worst. It immobilizes you, all
you can do is sit or lie down. It's like ground
glass is in your joints.
Yep. A real son of a bitch, it is. A true bastard of a pain. Even the brushing of a sheet over the joint is unbearable.
A falling knife has no handle.
November 16th, 2013 at 6:50:39 PM
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Quote: GWAEits funny that you say that because I had kidney stones last month and thought I was dying. The doc said they are more painful than birth. I have heard different things are more painful than birth. It seems like woman are over reacting about this birth thing. haha j/k ladies.
But seriously, I think when you are at pain level 10; that is the most painful thing of your life. I don't think you can compare different things when they are all pain level 10.
I really hope I never get gout, or anything that is pain level 10 again. When you are in so much pain that you are puking your guts out then you know you are in serious pain.
Funny thing about pain is it's always funnier when it's someone else's.
I was in Sandpoint Idaho and stood up one morning and immediately fell to my knees. I looked down and my testicle had swollen to the size of a baseball and said to myself, this can't be good. My wife at the time called the hospital and they said get him in here within 12 hours or it will burst and it will kill him. So reluctantly [no insurance] off we go. What I had along with a kidney stone was epiditimitus [sp?], or swelling of the nuts. Hurts like a bastard. They give me the old iodine and warn me some people have a slight reaction, immediate projectile vomiting, clear across the room.
So it's a stone [with infection/swelling] and you have to pass it at the time. This is the funny part. They don't give me a room they just put me in the lobby of the hospital and build one of those divider barriers around me for "privacy". It seemed at the time they must have called any med student, candy striper or anybody that even had a first aid card to come in and "see this".
About every 15 minutes there would be a new group and the dr. or nurse would ask if I'd mind if they took a look. I'm thinking hell if this is for medical science sure go ahead. I'd get two or three at a time, and invariably one would have to ask, "does it hurt"? By now my nut is the size of a softball and yes, it hurt like a bastard.
Every group that would leave I could hear them talking outside the barrier, and they would say " God, that looks like it hurts". They were right.
Anyway, one of the nurses had a second job as a cocktail waitress where I started drinking. I'd come through the door and I couldn't even hardly buy a drink in that place for days. I finally had to tell her that enormous size was just swelling and had went away. The free drinks stopped coming.
November 16th, 2013 at 6:53:01 PM
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Some beers and ales are far more potent than others in inducing an immediate gout attack.
Toe joints are the ones most likely to have had an existing injury and an existing infection in the synovial fluid.
Pseudo gout can be worse and a reaction to colchicine is be bad.
Toe joints are the ones most likely to have had an existing injury and an existing infection in the synovial fluid.
Pseudo gout can be worse and a reaction to colchicine is be bad.
November 16th, 2013 at 7:06:40 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffSome beers and ales are far more potent than others in inducing an immediate gout attack.
.
The darker the beer the worse it is for gout. Ibuprofin
is almost a miracle drug when it comes to gout. Take
4 every 4 hours and the pain is cut in half.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 16th, 2013 at 7:15:23 PM
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Quote: EvenBobSchadenfreude is when you realize the police lights in your rear view mirror are for somebody else. Your tears of laughter are sweet indeed.
Schadenfreude is reading the complaints of others about their poor health while secure in the knowledge that you yourself are in very good health.
They say karma is a bitch.
Karma must also reward.
"What, me worry?"
November 16th, 2013 at 7:39:25 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThe darker the beer the worse it is for gout. Ibuprofin
is almost a miracle drug when it comes to gout. Take
4 every 4 hours and the pain is cut in half.
And my favorites are black as ink. But I get pseudo. Causes of pseudo are not certain. For a while it was supposedly iced tea and spinach, then milk and something else, then I was told to drink a lot of water. But it has always just come and gone, without reasons. If it gets too bad I pop a vike or a perk. (Always keep leftovers, they don't go bad.)
A falling knife has no handle.
November 16th, 2013 at 8:06:28 PM
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Ibuprofen IS a miracle....so much better than aspirin, acetaminphen, naproxen, or even indomethacin, which is s'posed to be gout-centric. But take too much, over too many days, and ibuprofen gives me migraines. Once again, I have to balance life's pleasure vs. the pain it can give me. So....how many per day? How many days?...I'm still experimenting.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
November 16th, 2013 at 8:18:14 PM
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Regarding which joint is the worst, the knee by a mile.
The big toe? It's hard to put on shoes, hard to push in a clutch, or walk, but I can still walk on my heels.
Ankle? Swelling, but I can get around with a crutch.
Wrist is pretty damn bad tough. Can't bend or twist at all, can't changes gears in the car, can't use a mouse or a pen because that requires pressure on the wrist, can't even wipe my ass (try wiping with the opposite hand and see). Gout in the wrist is painful enough to prevent sleep.
But the knee? Oh. My. God. Can't walk, can't bend, can't get into the car, can't get into bed, can't lift my leg to get into the shower, can't sit on the toilet, can't put any weight on it whatsoever. Gout in the knee is enough to change your lifestyle (until it's over).
The big toe? It's hard to put on shoes, hard to push in a clutch, or walk, but I can still walk on my heels.
Ankle? Swelling, but I can get around with a crutch.
Wrist is pretty damn bad tough. Can't bend or twist at all, can't changes gears in the car, can't use a mouse or a pen because that requires pressure on the wrist, can't even wipe my ass (try wiping with the opposite hand and see). Gout in the wrist is painful enough to prevent sleep.
But the knee? Oh. My. God. Can't walk, can't bend, can't get into the car, can't get into bed, can't lift my leg to get into the shower, can't sit on the toilet, can't put any weight on it whatsoever. Gout in the knee is enough to change your lifestyle (until it's over).
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
November 16th, 2013 at 8:42:32 PM
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Quote: MrVSchadenfreude is reading the complaints of others about their poor health while secure in the knowledge that you yourself are in very good health.
They say karma is a bitch.
Karma must also reward.
I am thinking that Schadenfreude is when you think you are healthy and then you get a gallstone or kidney stone and realize that even healthy people aren't invincible and that karma always wins.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
November 16th, 2013 at 8:54:17 PM
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The spinach is oxalic acid content. Good systemic advice but hardly unique to pseudogout which is an infection your body is constantly fighting in the lining of the synovial fluid.
November 16th, 2013 at 9:27:29 PM
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Quote: zippyboyIbuprofen IS a miracle....so much better than aspirin, acetaminphen, naproxen, or even indomethacin, which is s'posed to be gout-centric. But take too much, over too many days, and ibuprofen gives me migraines. Once again, I have to balance life's pleasure vs. the pain it can give me. So....how many per day? How many days?...I'm still experimenting.
My druggist says never take more than 16 regulars a
day, or 4 prescription strength. I take 4 regs at once
which is the same as prescription strength. Always
ask a pharmacist about drugs, docs typically know
about half what they know.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 16th, 2013 at 9:31:38 PM
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Quote: zippyboy
But the knee? Oh. My. God. Can't walk, can't bend, can't get into the car, can't get into bed, can't lift my leg to get into the shower, can't sit on the toilet, can't put any weight on it whatsoever. Gout in the knee is enough to change your lifestyle (until it's over).
That's what I said. If you do manage to get in the
car, you'll play hell getting out. Ibuprofin seems to
work best on the knee, though, if you take enough
and keep taking it. It's what the drug was designed
for, reducing swelling.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 16th, 2013 at 10:18:37 PM
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Quote: GWAEits funny that you say that because I had kidney stones last month and thought I was dying. The doc said they are more painful than birth. I have heard different things are more painful than birth. .
My brother-in-laws nephew told me a nice story about his kidney stone. (he keeps it in a plastic bag). It's pretty big.
He got incredible pain. He knew it was a stone, because he had them before. So he finally urinated, but it instead of passing, it got stuck near the end of his penis and blocked it up.
Then he ended up in the ER. The doctor gave him some pain medication then stuck needle nose pliers into his penis and dragged it out. The stone is all jagged, not smooth.
The pain meds did little to alleviate the pain of extraction.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
November 16th, 2013 at 10:45:57 PM
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Quote: rxwine
Then he ended up in the ER. The doctor gave him some pain medication then stuck needle nose pliers into his penis and dragged it out. .
Jesus, fricking barbaric..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 17th, 2013 at 12:15:22 AM
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Quote: Sabretom2I've found if you play it right and milk it moderately you can get some pretty good sympathy perks.
sympathy perks = blow jobs. Just filling in the blank there.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
November 17th, 2013 at 12:15:44 AM
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Quote: petroglyphFunny thing about pain is it's always funnier when it's someone else's.
I was in Sandpoint Idaho and stood up one morning and immediately fell to my knees. I looked down and my testicle had swollen to the size of a baseball and said to myself, this can't be good. My wife at the time called the hospital and they said get him in here within 12 hours or it will burst and it will kill him. So reluctantly [no insurance] off we go. What I had along with a kidney stone was epiditimitus [sp?], or swelling of the nuts. Hurts like a bastard. They give me the old iodine and warn me some people have a slight reaction, immediate projectile vomiting, clear across the room.
So it's a stone [with infection/swelling] and you have to pass it at the time. This is the funny part. They don't give me a room they just put me in the lobby of the hospital and build one of those divider barriers around me for "privacy". It seemed at the time they must have called any med student, candy striper or anybody that even had a first aid card to come in and "see this".
About every 15 minutes there would be a new group and the dr. or nurse would ask if I'd mind if they took a look. I'm thinking hell if this is for medical science sure go ahead. I'd get two or three at a time, and invariably one would have to ask, "does it hurt"? By now my nut is the size of a softball and yes, it hurt like a bastard.
Every group that would leave I could hear them talking outside the barrier, and they would say " God, that looks like it hurts". They were right.
Anyway, one of the nurses had a second job as a cocktail waitress where I started drinking. I'd come through the door and I couldn't even hardly buy a drink in that place for days. I finally had to tell her that enormous size was just swelling and had went away. The free drinks stopped coming.
Oh dear god that is hilarious and awful. Thanks for relating that story!
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
November 17th, 2013 at 1:01:14 AM
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Excellent replies. I want to live the "good life" and I do---too much maybe. My last gout attack was in Japan in July. It registered 8 on my personal pain meter.
I have been taking Uloric 40mg and Colcrys 0.6 mg every day. When the gout occurred (it started on the 13.5 hour plane trip to Japan and my meds were in my suitcases ---gout comes on fast!). I started to double up on the Colcrys and add four tablets every six hours of Advil. The gout lasted about four days but I could limp around. Thankfully I was in Japan for 16 days so the gout only screwed up 25 percent of the trip.
The gout attack I had in the "My Doctor Had Pigtails" was in the 10 area. I would have gladly amputated my toe ---I would have gnawed it off!
I have actually stopped drinking the vodka; gone to two glasses of red wine. I do limit my red meat now to maybe once a week or 10 days. I think being overweight (I am really, really fat now but still good looking) doesn't help. I love Thanksgiving but turkey is worse than red meat for gout.
My friend Satch (the last living member of the Captain's Crew) had a kidney stone and he said he wanted to die. I do drink a lot of water and I do exercise every day (even with all this weight), I swim and walk.
Sometimes I long for the Garden of Eden...with casinos.
I have been taking Uloric 40mg and Colcrys 0.6 mg every day. When the gout occurred (it started on the 13.5 hour plane trip to Japan and my meds were in my suitcases ---gout comes on fast!). I started to double up on the Colcrys and add four tablets every six hours of Advil. The gout lasted about four days but I could limp around. Thankfully I was in Japan for 16 days so the gout only screwed up 25 percent of the trip.
The gout attack I had in the "My Doctor Had Pigtails" was in the 10 area. I would have gladly amputated my toe ---I would have gnawed it off!
I have actually stopped drinking the vodka; gone to two glasses of red wine. I do limit my red meat now to maybe once a week or 10 days. I think being overweight (I am really, really fat now but still good looking) doesn't help. I love Thanksgiving but turkey is worse than red meat for gout.
My friend Satch (the last living member of the Captain's Crew) had a kidney stone and he said he wanted to die. I do drink a lot of water and I do exercise every day (even with all this weight), I swim and walk.
Sometimes I long for the Garden of Eden...with casinos.
November 17th, 2013 at 7:43:45 AM
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Quote: rxwineMy brother-in-laws nephew told me a nice story about his kidney stone. (he keeps it in a plastic bag). It's pretty big.
He got incredible pain. He knew it was a stone, because he had them before. So he finally urinated, but it instead of passing, it got stuck near the end of his penis and blocked it up.
Then he ended up in the ER. The doctor gave him some pain medication then stuck needle nose pliers into his penis and dragged it out. The stone is all jagged, not smooth.
The pain meds did little to alleviate the pain of extraction.
OMG I can not imagine the pain he was in. My stone was small and it was more pain than I ever want again.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
November 17th, 2013 at 8:04:23 AM
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Quote: FrankScobleteMy last gout attack was in Japan in July
I remember reading about that, I believe, in your blog post on another site you had linked to.
Was this story about the Doctor with pigtails before or after the Japan trip?
I don't know everything but I know a lot.
November 17th, 2013 at 9:06:55 AM
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This one was before Japan. It was my first attack. It took me awhile to wise up and take at least some precautions. I know a lot of people have written that bad gout is tougher than child birth. Well, it lasts a lot longer that is for sure.
Having been at the birth of my two sons, I always wondered why a woman who had one child and went through labor would ever want to do it again. But I think the gout attacks are something similar. You are often incapacitated but then when it is over you seem to forget the pain or push it way, way to the back of your mind. Then you order the vodka and a steak and off you go to the next one as if the last one had never happened.
Having been at the birth of my two sons, I always wondered why a woman who had one child and went through labor would ever want to do it again. But I think the gout attacks are something similar. You are often incapacitated but then when it is over you seem to forget the pain or push it way, way to the back of your mind. Then you order the vodka and a steak and off you go to the next one as if the last one had never happened.
December 13th, 2013 at 10:00:58 AM
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Water, fluids in general, allopurinol... avoidance of intense "triggers", avoidance of mildly gout-inducing substances.. all are finel
I suggest red wine, particularly if it is an old style Madiran of 100 percent Tannat grapes. Don't get fooled by the Madiran appellation which legally only requires forty percent Tannat grapes.
I suggest red wine, particularly if it is an old style Madiran of 100 percent Tannat grapes. Don't get fooled by the Madiran appellation which legally only requires forty percent Tannat grapes.
January 19th, 2017 at 11:43:22 AM
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This wins resurrection thread of year
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
January 19th, 2017 at 11:53:34 AM
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Quote: Drevil23Wow, toe pain is so bad. I remember when i have that symptoms.I am a [removed link by mod]dentist and i know what pain is, but the gout really hurts.
Nice attempt at a hidden link.
Edited to remove the link. BBB
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Jan 19, 2017
