Smoking bans

Quote: Wizard

If I can change the topic, have any smokers reading this tried the electronic cigarettes? If so, how did they work out for you?

I tried a very low-end brand "eHealth Cigarettes," FWIW. The problem is their cartridges have no nicotine. For that I can use a regular unlit cigarette just as well :) I would like to try a brand with nicotine in it.

As to smokers and casinos, we'd still gamble if smoking were banned, of course, just as we still go to restaurants and fly in airplanes. But here's what you would see: smokers leaving the gambling table every hour or two in order to get a smoke outside.

In some casinos this may not matter. In others the smoker would find his place taken by someone else when he returns. Worse yet the smoker may ask the dealer to hold his spot. So the table would go for 10 to 20 minutes with an empty, unproductive spot.

Casinos in Ontario, Canada have been smoke free for a few years now and it impacted business somewhat. In Niagara Falls, for example, players have the choice to gamble at smoke-free Casino Niagara and Fallsview (and pay for drinks) on the Canadian side or go into the smoke pit at Seneca Niagara (and drink for free) on the American side. Personally, being a non-smoker, I won't set foot into Seneca Niagara. There have been arguments whether it was the strength of the Canadian dollar or new passport requirements that affected business as well. I imagine that the choice of smoking does affect a person's decision heavily on where they gamble. I also imagine that if an entire jurisdiction is smoke free, a person's decision to gamble will not be impacted by their personal habits.

Quote: tbadvertising

As far as I know , there is not one case of even one person ever dying from 2nd hand smoke anywhere . The second hand smoke studies that come out from various organizations are just a SMOKE SCREEN WITH NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS TO THEM AT ALL . You are born with the Genes that you are dealt and God will do the rest in a person's lifetime . Second hand smoke nay sayers are the biggest crock ever put upon the masses living in the United States , matter of fact , living in the entire world . Just putting my 2-cents worth in here .
Tony/Michigan

It's pretty obvious that if first hand smoking kills you because of all the chemicals inhaled (which certainly has been proven), that second hand smoke will also have a detrimental (yet lesser) effect. A smoker's lungs certainly do not absorb all of the chemicals before exhaling and the smoke on the other end of the burning cigarette is not water vapor. Certainly, the incidence of lung disease / lung cancer will be lesser because the concentration of those chemicals are lower in the air. And the purpose of smoking bans in the casinos is not necessarily there to protect the players, who have the choice to enter the casinos - it's to protect the workers who have to breathe the air all day - a workplace safety issue.

The Reward Deficiency Syndrome paper by Blum, Cull, etc. American Scientist 84:132 suggested that those with the A1 allele in the D2 receptor gene have a 74 percent chance of developing one of the Reward Deficiency disorders. They classify smoking as an addictive disorder and pathological gambling as a compulsive disorder. There is a great deal that seems objectionable in the paper but its considered good support for the notion that smokers comprise a large subset of gamblers and that a smoking ban would have a significantly greater impact on a casino than on an ordinary business.

True that a smoking ban would hurt casino business. Is that a bad thing? In Canada, you can't smoke at the casinos. In the US across the border (be it in Sault Ste. Marie, Detroit, Cornwall, or Niagara Falls), you can (you can also drink for free as well). Certainly, when Seneca Niagara Casino (in Niagara Falls, NY) opened, it took a great deal of business away from the Ontario casinos because of that. Fallsview (in Niagara Falls, Ontario) continued to be profitable during that time.

Don't they already have designated smoking-free gambling areas? I know they do here at the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Fort Lauderdale. Hasn't that become a relatively common practice? I would imagine that entirely smoke free casinos would have huge problems financially. You've just ostracized a large portion of gamblers if that was the case. I'm sure there is a middle ground being pursued (ie, non-smoking sections) similar to what they did in restaurants. However, I don't think casino's will go further in following to non-smoking entirely. People are much more likely to deal with walking through or gampling in smoking areas than to sit and eat a meal in smoke.

Quote: bobbyseg

Don't they already have designated smoking-free gambling areas? I know they do here at the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Fort Lauderdale. Hasn't that become a relatively common practice? I would imagine that entirely smoke free casinos would have huge problems financially. You've just ostracized a large portion of gamblers if that was the case. I'm sure there is a middle ground being pursued (ie, non-smoking sections) similar to what they did in restaurants. However, I don't think casino's will go further in following to non-smoking entirely. People are much more likely to deal with walking through or gampling in smoking areas than to sit and eat a meal in smoke.

Recent trip to Mohegan Sun definitely featured smoke-free areas.

Quote: tbadvertising

Don't know what study you read , but your quoted stats here is all bull on second hand smoke . Stats on smokers probably are more true and accurate , on second hand smoke dangers , BULL____.
As far as I know , there is not one case of even one person ever dying from 2nd hand smoke anywhere . The second hand smoke studies that come out from various organizations are just a SMOKE SCREEN WITH NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS TO THEM AT ALL . You are born with the Genes that you are dealt and God will do the rest in a person's lifetime . Second hand smoke nay sayers are the biggest crock ever put upon the masses living in the United States , matter of fact , living in the entire world . Just putting my 2-cents worth in here .

Tony/Michigan

American Cancer Society's Report on Second Hand Smoke

I couldn't find a libertarian tilt to anyone here so I guess I'll chime in. Only the person who started this forum seems to be an authoritarian a-hole who wants to force casinos to change, most of you were just throwing out random factoids so please don't take offense to what I say.

If anyone here thinks that casinos have NOT done the math or have a personal bias towards smoking over making a good business decision, you are full of it. The entire casino industry is gigantic, and for everyone to be colluding to keep smoking in casinos for whatever reason would not only be stupid, but illegal. These people have decided that (in general) even though smokers are a smaller portion of the population it is a smarter business decision to have smoking (for whatever reason you want to throw in there). For anyone to think the government should come in to a private business's venue and tell them what (might) be best for their business and what (might) be best for all their customers is a good thing, then I think socialist Europe/Canada might be for you.

Finally, if you don't want to go gambling in a smoky environment then don't go. I'm willing to tolerate it (and sometimes join in if I feel like it) rather than sit back with these secondhand smoking studies that are bs. Yes I understand smoking has been banned indoors in most of the modern world, my tirade stands for that as well.

Smoker and {mostly} non-drinker - a few drinks per *year*. I'm pretty much resigned to smoking being banned from casinos one day. I've started using "snus" (tobacco in a pouch, not dip) which you can use anywhere and not need a spit can.

So let's say you anti-smoking zealots get your wish - no more smoking in any casino. If it goes that far, then I hope that *drinking* is banned in all casinos next. Drunken behavior really, really annoys me. Sloppy, drooling, vomiting drunks are repulsive.

It's hard to find good, solid data, but from several sources (google "alcohol related injuries") I was able to cobble together some interesting alcohol stats. 85,000 alcohol related fatalaties per year. That's 233 per day. That's almost *two* 737's crashing every day. 400,000 alcohol related auto injuries per year. Couldn't find any info on non-auto alcohol related injuries, but would it surprise anyone if it's at least 400,000? Fighting, falling, and any type of alcohol related behavior injuries not involving an automobile.

Now I know some of you are saying "Why ban it in casinos? Injuries and fatalies due to drunks are most likely to occur outside of a casino!". Ah-ha! Perhaps we should ban *ALL* drinking, everywhere. This way I can safely drive down the road without worry that some drunk will kill/injure me in a collision. Welcome to the new Nanny-States of America. We will continue to ban things that are bad for anyone until there's no fun anymore, just like the Founding Fathers intended (I know because I read a book about how it's all a conspiracy by big tobacco and big alcohol and big mammas).

There's a huge difference between smoking and drinking. First, smoking causes between 400,000 to 430,000 deaths per year in the United States, a factor of five greater than alcohol. Second hand smoke affects workers who cannot get away from the direct smoke. When Ontario enacted laws banning smoking in restaurants, they had to take on casinos as well. Very few dealers and casino workers get injured by drunks. The positive effect is that the working conditions in bars, restaurants, and casinos are far better.

And gee whiz, use some reason when it comes to the "second hand BS". The pollution that comes from cigarette smoke that is breathed in is the *same* as what is in the air. Perhaps the concentration is less, but it goes to stand that long term exposure to this stuff would have the same effect as direct smoking.

At the same time, I absolutely agree that drinking should be curbed in casinos and casinos should be fined heavily (1) for letting patrons get drunk (2) allowing drunk people to get into their cars after leaving the casino. These laws are already here in Ontario, which is why they make you pay for drinks here. I've had a friend here be cut off by the casino after about 5 pints and I am sure that security was making sure that the friend didn't get into a car after leaving. I also think that enforcement and penalties should be stepped up against drunk drivers.