Casinos should have the right to bar perceived advantage players from playing

I only say yes they should, because if you're an advantage player, you should not be getting caught, and you should never admit it anyway.

I might change my mind, because I just decided on that answer just now.

Casinos in Vegas routinely throw vagrants out. Not like a ban exactly, but they don't seem to have much of a problem asking someone to leave.

(of course, it's next to impossible not to get caught playing VP if they are/were able to track all your hands)

Isn't it a little bit crazy for someone to expect you not to play a game as well as you can? You're welcome to play BJ here if you suck at it.

My understanding about card counters, at least in Nevada, is that if you're spotted counting cards then you can get 86'd. There's no distinction on whrther you're winning or losing, just counting.

Not being a BJ player, didn't the casinos make card counting a moot point when they added decks, shufflers and other rules years ago?

Quote: Headlock

I believe that any casino should have the right to bar any person they suspect of being a card counter.

So if you use your eyes and your brain you should be banned. Do you work for Harrah's or MGM ??

Quote: DeMango

Quote: Headlock

I believe that any casino should have the right to bar any person they suspect of being a card counter.

So if you use your eyes and your brain you should be banned. Do you work for Harrah's or MGM ??

Stating that you believe someone has a right to do something, and stating that you believe they should actually do that same thing are two different opinions.

Quote: EnvyBonus

Stating that you believe someone has a right to do something, and stating that you believe they should actually do that same thing are two different opinions.

wut?

Quote: iamthepush

Quote: EnvyBonus

Stating that you believe someone has a right to do something, and stating that you believe they should actually do that same thing are two different opinions.

wut?

I think Richard Jefferson has the right to opt out of a contract that will pay him $15Million next season. I don't think he should do it, since he'll be lucky to make $7Million if he opts out. Oh, wait...that happened? My bad...

http://casinogambling.about.com/library/weekly/aa120202.htm

The subject of discrimination is a comlpex one, and should be discussed elsewhere.

As pertains to this subject, the casino's viewpoint is pretty simple: the casino makes money out of the house advantage. Anything that reduces such advantage will hurt their income, therefore they will do whatever they can to preserve it.

In games where the HA is low to begin with, such as BJ, is where you'll find the most obvious actions by any casino. therefore the ban on card counters.

But card counting isn't cheating, it's just playing the game better. That's what bothers gamblers, card counters and non, understandably so. Serious players acquire skills and knowledge, and are very much bothered when the casino tells them, in essence, "use your skills and you're outta here."

Quote: Nareed

The subject of discrimination is a comlpex one, and should be discussed elsewhere.

As pertains to this subject, the casino's viewpoint is pretty simple: the casino makes money out of the house advantage. Anything that reduces such advantage will hurt their income, therefore they will do whatever they can to preserve it.

In games where the HA is low to begin with, such as BJ, is where you'll find the most obvious actions by any casino. therefore the ban on card counters.

But card counting isn't cheating, it's just playing the game better. That's what bothers gamblers, card counters and non, understandably so. Serious players acquire skills and knowledge, and are very much bothered when the casino tells them, in essence, "use your skills and you're outta here."

Compare that to what we vp players face. On FPDW, which is readily available all over town in quarters and 5c, the HA is even less than it is in card counting with BS. There are also quite a few plays available at higher and much higher denominations that, with the goodies, can be a player advantage. I assume most of the players who play these things are skilled as you call it, yet it is very uncommon for any of them to get backed off or banned from playing them. (and basically none if you ask to see the proof from those who CLAIM to have been 86'd).

Why the difference?

Quote: JerryLogan

Compare that to what we vp players face. On FPDW, which is readily available all over town in quarters and 5c, the HA is even less than it is in card counting with BS. There are also quite a few plays available at higher and much higher denominations that, with the goodies, can be a player advantage. I assume most of the players who play these things are skilled as you call it, yet it is very uncommon for any of them to get backed off or banned from playing them. (and basically none if you ask to see the proof from those who CLAIM to have been 86'd).

Why the difference?

Because their VP machines don't really offer a player advantage. Card counting does. And I'm not talking about comps here, but the ability to actually earn real, serious money over the long-haul. No machine will ever allow that. Even on the machines that have a theoretical player-advantage, the denominations are so low it only works out to earing about $6/hr (again, not counting comps in this discussion). Compare that with a $500/hand played who is an effective counter, and has an expected profit of something like $5 PER HAND or $300/hr and you see why casinos ban effective counters, but not effective VP players.