Casinos should have the right to bar perceived advantage players from playing

Quote: dm

No problem. The casinos should train their dealers to count or, better, have a device do it for them and simply shuffle the cards if the count gets above 1 or 2. That would increase their advantage over all players. In effect, the dealer decreases the bet to zero when it's in their best interest, whereas the counter increases his bet when it's to his advantage. That OK with everybody?

Hrmm. I think the dealers are too busy with dealing / buy ins / cheque change / etc to be expected to keep a count, and floor personnel are likewise too busy with other tables to do the same, even if supplied with a device to keep track of such a count. Surveillance often keeps a count on both random and suspect tables, but to dedicate a person to do so, or hire an entire department as 'table counters', seems to me to be very cost inefficient.

Also, the casino makes it's money based on two things, the house advantage and plays per hour. It would be quite possible for many shoes / decks to begin with a +1 or +2 true count, and having to shuffle so often might send your customers packing due to boredom and will definately send the hands per hour into freefall. The loss from this over a few days, or even one day, would likely surpass the loss from a counter by a large amount. Also, doing so would GUARANTEE the loss, whereas the counter's threat varies by his skill, bankroll, Lady Luck, and the probability of him even entering that particular casino.

There has been much talk in the industry about shuffle's for this very reason. Many casino's who were faced with financial issues due to the reccession sought advisors for help, and many of them made a significant improvement in their bottom line just by simplifying their shuffle procedures. It's amazing what even one less riffle or strip has done for their take, and most would realize that adding an untold amount of extra shuffles would be devastating so I don't see it ever happening.

I'm confused by your 'bet' scenario, though. Perhaps I'm reading it too literally. Dealers, as I'm sure you know, do not wager in BJ as they do in, say, Pai Gow Poker. So I must admit I'm kind of lost on your explanation. Hope the rest helps, though.

Funny definition of cheating. Seems to imply if I make a good decision I am cheating ??

Quote: dm

No problem. The casinos should train their dealers to count or, better, have a device do it for them and simply shuffle the cards if the count gets above 1 or 2. That would increase their advantage over all players. In effect, the dealer decreases the bet to zero when it's in their best interest, whereas the counter increases his bet when it's to his advantage. That OK with everybody?

I wonder if the dealers would also shuffle the cards when the count gets below -1 or -2? No, the count is just that... no early shuffling because the count is not in the casino's favor. There are plenty (the great majority) of flat betters who can't even count to 21 on a good day. Why take their luck away?

Being banned for being an AP and playing/betting more during +EV situations.

Does not make sense to me !!

Ban a cheat yes, not an AP, there will be plenty of non- AP's to make up for it !! Single deck 6-5 to BJ, roulette, and slots combined HE around 20 %- ouch !!

An AP will only have a very small advantage , a very small % of the time . The players that have a system, think they are an AP, should more than makeup for the few consistent proven AP's .

Quote:

Funny definition of cheating. Seems to imply if I make a good decision I am cheating ??

Or worse, you push a sequence of buttons on a Video-Blackjack game that make you actually win rather than lose.
Couldn't resist that one.

N&B

AP is not cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!! Playing by their rules and casinos wants to kick AP out. They should have a sign at the entrance with the words Only Idiots and Losers allowed.

"perceived" >>> Thats the KEY word. (ROFL)

Ken

I read an article once where there was a European roulette table (one zero, HE 2.70%) and an American roulette table (2 zeroes, HE 5.40%) side by side in a casino and they were both getting equal play. I am still kicking myself for never buying any casino stocks.

Quote: boymimbo

I wonder if the dealers would also shuffle the cards when the count gets below -1 or -2? No, the count is just that... no early shuffling because the count is not in the casino's favor. There are plenty (the great majority) of flat betters who can't even count to 21 on a good day. Why take their luck away?

Casinos don't shuffle up based on count, they shuffle up at the cut card, or after a constant number of hands dealt out on single deck. But they don't need to shuffle up early, they can simply flat-bet or bar any player they want in Nevada.

Floorman says to player, "You must flat bet the same bet amount through every hand, else no action." Floorman says, "You're done for the night on Blackjack, Sir. Go play dice." Floorman says to dealer, "Do not deal to his position." Bang, done.

Casinos can also have a betting range of $5 to $25 dollars, or have 50% penetration, or both.
No Apology.

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