Etiquette Question - Mispay on Ultimate Texas Hold'em

Not every cheating act at a casino invoves armed robbery, so making that the limit, where anything below that is not callable in your eyes, ain't going to happen, all wishes otherwise aside.
Your idea of a perfect casino world and mine are different.

Dan and I are friends. Because of that, I tend to see his side, and not attack him in these threads.

However, in a phone call today, he said it was OK if I throw him under a bus.

So here goes.

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I have had dealer mistakes where I was the one being overpaid, and I have pointed out the error. Sometimes the dealer is indifferent. Once, I was quietly told to not mention it. Chances are, surveillance didn't notice it, but they WILL notice the correction, and that would cause a write-up. If I just keep it, I'll lose it back in 5 minutes anyway, so why bother? Never has a dealer expressed any sort of gratitude for being alerted to the error.

And then there are times where I question the payout, only to discover that I was wrong. So all I did was delay the action.

Bottom line: I no longer correct dealer mistakes in the player's favor.

I also no longer correct mistakes in the casino's favor if I'm not involved.

There was one exception. I had placed a $1 dealer tip at BlackJack, and got a BJ. The correct procedure would be to replace the white with a pink, then drop the pink in the tip box. Except this dealer dropped the pink as well as the white. The first time, I wasn't sure what I had seen, so I didn't say anything. The second time he did it, I told him about it during the next hand. It was all conversational. There were no hand movements that would give surveillance any clue what we were talking about. Once he realized what I was telling him, he was genuinely grateful for what I told him. I also asked him if they split tips at that casino. He laughed. Yeah, his 2¢ share of that mistake was really worth risking his job over!

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Anyway, here's the part where I throw Dan under the bus:

Earlier in this thread (or maybe a different ethics thread), Dan made a comment about getting a motor vehicle violation that incurs points.

Dan stated that in such a situation, he has (or would?) hire a lawyer to attempt to get the charge reduced to one that has no points.

While doing this is completely legal, is it ethical?

Points are used to indicate to the insurance company that the driver is a risk. More points, bigger risk.

Isn't exercising that option effectively stealing money from the insurance company?

It's no big deal. After all, the "big bad" insurance company can afford little losses like this. They'll still make a profit, right?

Sound familiar?

Dan, it's your industry. You're sensitive to this situation, of people that keep money wrongly paid out, or take other questionable shots. Maybe you're unique in your passion about it, but in different situations, your ethics can be just as questionable as those of the people you're arguing with.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Dan and I are friends. Because of that, I tend to see his side, and not attack him in these threads.

However, in a phone call today, he said it was OK if I throw him under a bus.

So here goes....here's the part where I throw Dan under the bus:

Earlier in this thread (or maybe a different ethics thread), Dan made a comment about getting a motor vehicle violation that incurs points.

Dan stated that in such a situation, he has (or would?) hire a lawyer to attempt to get the charge reduced to one that has no points.

While doing this is completely legal, is it ethical?

Sure - it's the expected smart move, as well as a Standard Operating Procedure Option that is endorsed by Law Enforcement and the legal community in this county. It also increases county revenues.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Points are used to indicate to the insurance company that the driver is a risk. More points, bigger risk.

Isn't exercising that option effectively stealing money from the insurance company?

No. Not if it's fine with State Farm themselves. Their floorman said I was fine. And the equation is More accidents = Bigger risk.

Quote: DJTeddybear

It's no big deal. After all, the "big bad" insurance company can afford little losses like this. They'll still make a profit, right?

No. they had no losses from accident-free me. In fact, they had nothing but profit from me, and my coverage for their real risks.
You see, if the floorman and casino industry make the call, and it's fine with them, it's kosher S.O.P.
Same here. Their local office said, "fine with us - in fact, it's a good idea to keep premiums at a minimum."

Quote: DJTB

Dan, it's your industry. You're sensitive to this situation, of people that keep money wrongly paid out, or take other questionable shots. Maybe you're unique in your passion about it, but in different situations, your ethics can be just as questionable as those of the people you're arguing with.

In your opinion. I pay my way. In fact, I pay more, cover more, and don't resent it.

FYI, when I was playing Mississippi Stud earlier tonight at my local casino, the dealer mispaid me (on my third hand) at 1:1 for what should have been a push, a $40 error. I pointed it out. The player at the other end, who saw the wrong payout, did not say anything until I made the point.

In tonight's case, good karma paid off, and I proceeded over the next 20 minutes to hit a bunch of two pairs and trips to win $450 (on a $5 table). Sometimes, karma don't mean crap though.

I always correct my wrong payouts.

The dealer thanked me and said, "we're so empty tonight, surveillance would have caught it anyway." Surveillance was calling down for those dealers who were being too quick at showing their empty hands. They were bored.

Quote: Paigowdan

Not every cheating act at a casino invoves armed robbery,

Of course. Just like not every traffic violation involves hit and run. My point exactly.

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Your idea of a perfect casino world and mine are different.

They have to be, because mine does not exist :) As before, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Quote: Paigowdan

No. they had no losses from accident-free me.

Sure, they did. You are paying them less premium than you should have based on your driver record. Essentially, that means that people who are not as smart as (or more honest than) you are have to subsidize you and pay part of the cost for you.
This is worse than keeping your mouth shut about a payout mistake, because you are costing to the insurance company a lot more money.

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In fact, they had nothing but profit from me, and my coverage for their real risks.

Oh, for sure, the casino had nothing but profit from from that guy, who just got payed an extra five bucks by mistake too ...
This is irrelevant.

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In your opinion. I pay my way. In fact, I pay more, cover more, and don't resent it.

Sure. But in my opinion, I pay more to the casinos than they deserve too. So, following your own logic, anything I do to pay less within legal boundaries is fair game.