If you found a real gambling edge...

I've known of hundreds of great plays over the years and I have never shared the info with anyone outside other professionals and only when it further benefited me to share. Why anyone would think it's a good idea to spread info on a great play or even alert the casino is beyond me.

I'd report someone monkeying with a slot machine. I ain't never going to be playing that machine or any other slot machine so what have I got to lose.

Quote: FleaStiff

I'd report someone monkeying with a slot machine. I ain't never going to be playing that machine or any other slot machine so what have I got to lose.

Tampering with a machine IMO is not an "edge" or a play, it's cheating and illegal.

Quote: JimMorrison

I've known of hundreds of great plays over the years and I have never shared the info with anyone outside other professionals and only when it further benefited me to share. Why anyone would think it's a good idea to spread info on a great play or even alert the casino is beyond me.

What if your good poker buddy had a tell? If you need to face him in the final of a tournament, wouldn't that info be very handy? Would you let him know?

I think having an, "edge" on a game is alot like that. What you do with the info depends on the value you place on the financial well being of your, "buddy" vs. the value you place on the potential cash in your bank. While there are a few who would look out for the House's interest like a "buddy"; to most, the House is a rich aquaintaince who never picked up the tab before, and can easily afford the check now.

Quote: Ayecarumba

What if your good poker buddy had a tell? If you need to face him in the final of a tournament, wouldn't that info be very handy? Would you let him know?

No, I would not let him know.

There are issues with revealing an edge to the public. It's pretty much a known fact that the more people who know about an advantage and can exploit it, the less of an advantage there is. A good example is with sports betting and moving the lines as a result of many people betting on one team. It happens a lot in the market too.

There is also a difference in sharing ideas about an edge, and giving someone step by step instructions on how to find that edge and exploit it. Let's be honest here, the majority of gamblers (and people for that matter) are too stupid to even handle understanding the basic rules of the games they play let alone adopt a winning strategy to overcome the house advantage. Becoming a winning player and being able to beat the games using an edge that can be recorded and analyzed is not the easiest of things to do.

The other thing that really ticks me off is people seem to demand exact details just for the sake of being "skeptical". It's as though they want something for nothing and they still aren't satisfied even if you show them the goods. I'll tell a friend or two that I have a way to beat a casino game and I get the "House always wins" lecture. Then I say, "Well, I can mathematically prove my edge exists. It's documented and I have done a fair bit of research on it" Then the real good stuff happens. "I dunno, where do you play? How long have you done this? How much do you make? I need exact figures. How many other people do you play with? What are their names? Where do they live?" I'm surprised I don't get asked for my credit card number! People just want to know stuff that is none of their damn business. I have since decided if people want to know exactly what I do, they can meet me and I will be more that willing to tell/show them. This whole idea of posting my playbook online just to run the risk of ruining a good thing as well as getting hounded by skeptics is one thing I am not interested in. At least a person willing to meet in a casino is showing some kind of interest.

The only thing I can contribute really is that my edge can be documented and can be proven. I just don't feel the need to post about it publicly when the math tells me what I already know.

Some years ago I found a bug in an online casino game which allowed me to place bets in a manner so that I could force the result to be only a win or a push. So I couldn't even lose on it. It required a complex betting pattern for the bug to appear, so I figured that I was probably the only one to know about it. I kept playing at this casino and cashing out only moderate sums to make the opportunity last longer. I knew that if I attack it too aggressively, the bug gets exposed and the casino will never pay my winnings. The problem was that I didn't precisely know how aggressive or conservative I should be to maximize it's total value. I also did a large amount of cover play on other games to hide the trail to the malfunctioning game and to make it seem like I was just getting lucky with big bets.

The bug lasted for 3 months before being fixed and I made a decent buck out of it. The casino never contacted me about it so they seemed to swallow it as their own oversight, or perhaps my cover play was sufficient for them to never notice my advantage play.

I told one close friend that I had found a very profitable loophole and he desperately tried to make me tell him about it. He even took me to a bar and gave me shots to make me drunk, so that I would tell him the secret but I knew well that the info was too valuable to be shared with anyone.

Quote: MarieBicurie

I'll tell a friend or two that I have a way to beat a casino game and I get the "House always wins" lecture. Then I say, "Well, I can mathematically prove my edge exists. It's documented and I have done a fair bit of research on it" Then the real good stuff happens. "I dunno, where do you play? How long have you done this? How much do you make? I need exact figures. How many other people do you play with? What are their names? Where do they live?" I'm surprised I don't get asked for my credit card number! People just want to know stuff that is none of their damn business. I have since decided if people want to know exactly what I do, they can meet me and I will be more that willing to tell/show them.

OMG, this sounds so much like a conversation of one of Jerry Logan's identities with MathExtremist :)


My opinion - if you have found an edge, but don't want to share the details, just shut up. Nobody (except, maybe, mrjjj) is interested in learning how much you are making per week using your secret method. Saying something like "I have this great edge, but I won't tell you where it is, because you are too stupid to understand it anyway" is just so ... jerrylogany ... it makes me cringe.

Quote: weaselman

OMG, this sounds so much like a conversation of one of Jerry Logan's identities with MathExtremist :)


My opinion - if you have found an edge, but don't want to share the details, just shut up. Nobody (except, maybe, mrjjj) is interested in learning how much you are making per week using your secret method. Saying something like "I have this great edge, but I won't tell you where it is, because you are too stupid to understand it anyway" is just so ... jerrylogany ... it makes me cringe.

Well, I never said I wouldn't share it. I'm more than happy sharing it, I just don't see the need to share it publicly. And again, there is a big difference in telling someone about your edge vs. building them an exact manual on how to do what you do. Take Jufo81's example. Saying "I found a glitch in the payout structure on one of the VLT's and with a proper betting strategy you can exploit it so you break even or make a profit!" is a perfect way to explain his strategy. You seem to prefer he say something like, "I found a group of VLT's in the Flamingo at the bar near the sports book that have a payout glitch in the Spanish 21 game and here is how I take advantage of it!" My only question is, what can you bring to the table that deserves that detailed a response?

Again, I never said I refused to share with people. It just seems like everyone wants more than just something for nothing when it comes to beating a casino. They want EVERYTHING for nothing! It gets old after a while. I really doubt it's JerryLogany as you put it. I'm willing to share my edge/strategy with interested parties, just NOT PUBLICLY!

Quote: weaselman

OMG, this sounds so much like a conversation of one of Jerry Logan's identities with MathExtremist :)

Ouch. :)

I don't recall ever pestering Jerry for his edge, but that's because he never suggested he had one. He was just playing a progression on admittedly -EV video poker games. I think the true system hucksters are more dangerous to the unwary and greedy gambler -- the sellers who say they have the edge but won't tell you why or how unless you pay for their magic casino-beating system. I haven't researched it, but there are probably several states with consumer protection laws strong enough to make it an offense to sell a betting system which is demonstrably ineffective.

As for MarieBicurie's edge, I'm always curious about the advantages which exist in casinos for truly smart players. Especially if they're on games not played with cards.