Do some blackjack dealers cheat?

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Poll
2 votes (15.38%)
11 votes (84.61%)

13 members have voted

June 26th, 2011 at 8:01:21 PM permalink
tonyv51
Member since: Oct 31, 2009
Threads: 2
Posts: 2
I had always suspected that some blackjack dealers cheat in the way they deal hands. I finally have confirmation from a retired BJ dealer in Las Vegas. I had noticed that some dealers, especially men with large hands, will deal the first two cards to each player in a normal fashion, but when they deal the final determining card on a large bet or large double down, all of a sudden their hands go through some contortion and the player receives a losing card. Some of these dealers are real "mechanics" and can deal the second or bottom card, which they know the value of when they shuffle the deck, to defeat a player's hand when it suits them to do so. Also part of the cheat scam are some Pit Bosses, "coolers" (casino employess posing as players to disrupt the flow of the cards, i.e. splitting tens and fives, and taking bust cards when the dealers shows a weak 4,5 or 6) and cocktail waitresses who "accidentally" distract a player with some minor detail or comment during a big bet so the player doesn't see a dirty deal. The retired dealer who confirmed all this to me said that the old mob-owned casinos required this conduct from their dealers, and although current corporate-owned casinos may not openly require it, the casinos do keep records of how much their dealers win and lose and this effects the working conditions and employabitlity of some dealers, especially as they age and become less physically attractive to the players. For all these reasons, I now avoid all BJ dealers who hand shuffle and hold cards. I will only play BJ at a table where there is an automated shuffler where the dealer has less opportunity to manipulate cards from the shoe. You may call me paraniod, but after 30 years of playing BJ and experiencing many questionable deals and distractions when I had big bets down, i just feel more at ease reducing the opportunity for BJ dealers and other casino staff to cheat me. What do you think? Do some BJ dealers cheat on the deal, or never?
June 26th, 2011 at 9:12:24 PM permalink
ponyboy
Member since: Apr 28, 2011
Threads: 21
Posts: 119
being a magician, without a doubt casino dealers can cheat. do they? i cant say for a fact, but there def is good oppurtunity to do so. the truth is they really dont need to, but it makes money so i dont see why they wouldnt. i know roulette dealers will cheat for the casino, they been spinning th ball so long that they can just about guarantee that the ball will land on the number they want, such as zero or any empty betless number. i was gambling one time doing the double down thing and as soon as i was winning big, they switched the dealer and all of a sudden 5 zeros within 6 rolls, of course taking my money. i know they cheated because why would there have been 3 or 4 casino employees that came to the table to watch? one of which was excited and was like "WHAT IS IT WHAT IS IIIITTTT!!" and when i lost my $90 (i kept $10 to stay on top) one smirked and adjusted his collar on his jacket like a punk and walked away. lol i left stating "i still have $10 of yours!"
June 26th, 2011 at 9:15:37 PM permalink
ponyboy
Member since: Apr 28, 2011
Threads: 21
Posts: 119
Quote: ponyboy
being a magician, without a doubt casino dealers can cheat. do they? i cant say for a fact, but there def is good oppurtunity to do so. the truth is they really dont need to, but it makes money so i dont see why they wouldnt. i know roulette dealers will cheat for the casino, they been spinning th ball so long that they can just about guarantee that the ball will land on the number they want, such as zero or any empty betless number. i was gambling one time doing the double down thing and as soon as i was winning big, they switched the dealer and all of a sudden 5 zeros within 6 rolls, of course taking my money. i know they cheated because why would there have been 3 or 4 casino employees that came to the table to watch? one of which was excited and was like "WHAT IS IT WHAT IS IIIITTTT!!" and when i lost my $90 (i kept $10 to stay on top) one smirked and adjusted his collar on his jacket like a punk and walked away. lol i left stating "i still have $10 of yours!"


i was playing with only $100, won 100 and lost 90, so i walked out with $110. i NEVER lose all my winnings money, the only way is if i lose from the beginning.
June 26th, 2011 at 10:56:29 PM permalink
Paigowdan
Member since: Apr 28, 2010
Threads: 100
Posts: 4498
Quote: tonyv51
You may call me paraniod, but after 30 years of playing BJ and experiencing many questionable deals and distractions when I had big bets down, i just feel more at ease reducing the opportunity for BJ dealers and other casino staff to cheat me. What do you think? Do some BJ dealers cheat on the deal, or never?

Tony, I will call you paranoid, not that there's anything wrong with that.
I've been dealing for years in Vegas, as part of a typical casino crew, and there never was an instance of it from ayone I knew, heard of, or "friend of a friend of a friend" heard of on any level involved in such crap. Also, there were posts here about huge winners that busted casinos and "should have been taken down or cooled off," if there ever was a need or a case.

The simple fact of the matter is that casinos nowadays don't cheat, don't need to cheat, don't sweat the money, have a reputation to maintain, and have everyone from Gaming inspectors to paranoid players riding on top of them.

The retire dealer you speak of may be a rogue, may have fantasies as to what he'd like to regale people with, or be in his own world, or expounded stories from "the good ol' days" of Mob Run Vegas of YEARS gone by when there were some ancient instances back in the jurasic period, etc.

You can have an occasional sociopath PLAYER (Richard Marcus) whould cheat and win against casinos as players, and write tell-all books.

In my propfessional gaming life, this has never been romotely as issue. Dealers and floorman supplying themselves chips for their own pockets have pop up on very rare ocasion, yes, from time to time, very rarely. But throwing games..... naah.

What happens is that out own gambling history was never as stellear as we''d like it to be, and to get some blessing for our sour grapes and grades are reassuring.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
June 27th, 2011 at 2:40:17 AM permalink
FleaStiff
Member since: Oct 19, 2009
Threads: 173
Posts: 8870
Quote: ponyboy
i know roulette dealers will cheat for the casino, they been spinning th ball so long that they can just about guarantee that the ball will land on the number they want, such as zero or any empty bet-less number.
Really? Is that true? I want you to know that if I were a roulette dealer and had that skill, YOU would not be able to play at my table. There would be no seats available at all, each and everyone would be taken by my friends and relatives and the ball would never land on a bet-less number, not even once. The return I would get making people win would be much higher than some sort of pleasure derived from making people lose on behalf of my employer who ain't paying be jackxxxx to begin with since most of my pay envelope comes from tips from the players and most of them tend to tip better when they are winning than when they are losing. I can just see some young attractive and seductively clad woman wandering around the casino enjoying free drinks and winding up at a roulette table where such a capable dealer causes her to lose on behalf of his employer. Yeah Mac, happens all the time.

I did encounter about five years ago a report from a floor person in Vegas who took an impromptu girls-only trip to California during which they stopped off at a casino operated by the Santa Ynez tribe or something. There she was trying to count cards and did not want to reveal her status but saw the dealer peeking at cards he was about to deal and decided she would simply not play there any longer. I was unable to verify the validity of this report though. This was the only report of a cheating dealer that I encountered and it was at an Indian casino, not a Las Vegas one.

A cooler amidst the blackjack dealers? Someone really skilled at turning off a winning streak? Gee, I don't know. What do you think about that Cooler's co-workers? Do they know he is the cooler? Do they appreciate his "cooling" their tip packet each night? Do they know where in the employee parking lot he parks his car and which times he walks to it on a dark night? Do they have "discussions" there about his "cooling" behavior and their tip packets? I'd sure go get acquainted with that guy's knee-caps if I knew any co-worker was costing me money night after night while I stood there smiling all night long for tips. Some of those smiling female blackjack dealers who stand there night after night getting sore fingers while having their tits stared at all night long by leering drunks have boyfriends you know. You think those sore-fingered blackjack dealers wouldn't speak to their boyfriends about this guy at work what night after night costs them money and then walks out to a lonely place in the employee parking lot late at night?
June 27th, 2011 at 3:20:45 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Nov 9, 2009
Threads: 223
Posts: 4580
it's too broad the way you pose your poll and I didnt vote, since if a single dealer once in world history ever cheated it blows it all up.

Recently you have the Vietnamese gang that got into Indian casinos as dealers and did false shuffles for collaborators to cheat the casinos.

I'd say a player who complains about bad luck is has a long ways to go to prove he got cheated.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." Mark Twain
June 27th, 2011 at 4:09:20 AM permalink
FleaStiff
Member since: Oct 19, 2009
Threads: 173
Posts: 8870
Yes, it is indeed an overly broad poll question but assuming the usual fine print about such things, I would still answer it in the negative. Oh sure, there is always some stupid jerk somewhere. Big deal. Routinely, dealers do not cheat simply because they have absolutely no incentive to do so and rather considerable incentive not to cheat.

Heck, if a dealer is spotted cheating ... do you really think the casino would ever say "thats okay, son we saw you were cheating but since you were cheating on our behalf to get rid of some guy who was winning our money, we think thats okay". A dealer who will cheat in favor of the house is a dealer who will cheat in favor of the player some day and the casino will get rid of him pronto. The only thing that keeps casinos in business is that house edge and anyone who tries to nick it just a little gets booted out of the job. And it doesn't matter in whose favor they try to nick that house edge.

PS: I thought most of that Vietnamese Baccarat Playing gang simply bought a dealer's compliance rather than planting a dealer in a casino in advance.
June 27th, 2011 at 5:17:55 AM permalink
DJTeddyBear
Member since: Nov 2, 2009
Threads: 143
Posts: 8021
I didn't reply, because, if a dealer is cheating at MY table, then he's an idiot, and not really doing the house a favor.

IF a dealer is cheating for the house, (and that's a BIG "if"), I'd suspect he'd be dealing at higher limits. I mean, what's the point of stealing $25 when you can steal $1000 or more?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood?
June 27th, 2011 at 5:33:27 AM permalink
FleaStiff
Member since: Oct 19, 2009
Threads: 173
Posts: 8870
Quote: DJTeddyBear
IF a dealer is cheating for the house, (and that's a BIG "if"), I'd suspect he'd be dealing at higher limits. I mean, what's the point of stealing $25 when you can steal $1000 or more?
Yeah. I hadn't thought of that. Can you imagine a dealer cheating at a five dollar 6:5 table? They already have a pretty good edge going for them and the bet is a lousy five dollars!! If the dealer is caught cheating at a full five dollar table, how many of those players are going to be playing there the next day? How many of their friends will ever be playing there? What about the commotion? Wouldn't it be noticed at adjacent tables? What about those players? That would be one expensive dealer for that casino!!
June 27th, 2011 at 6:49:46 AM permalink
ponyboy
Member since: Apr 28, 2011
Threads: 21
Posts: 119
Quote: FleaStiff
Really? Is that true? I want you to know that if I were a roulette dealer and had that skill, YOU would not be able to play at my table. There would be no seats available at all, each and everyone would be taken by my friends and relatives and the ball would never land on a bet-less number, not even once


sorry to bust your bubble, but yes i would be playing your table. roulette is open to unlimited players, seats open or not. people reach thru to place bets and stand on the side lines all the time.


and yes you would be throwing betless numbers from time to time, even the dealers skill cant stop the ball from bouncing around, its just a skill that is "better then random"

and if the table was full, the house would still be winning in the long run due to not everyone would be winning, unless they all bet the same number, and in that case you would def lose your job as soon as you thru it lol.
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