mkl puts his money where his mouth is?

Quote: mkl654321

I am so very sad that both you and JerryLogan don't like me, and that my views on religion upset you so much. Any correlation between the two phenomena?

Since this post mkl has realized that although no one can say for sure that religion is the truth or superstition, it has been a very important aspect of human civilization that has directly or indirectly brought about some very significant, positive changes. See the "Are there ghosts?" thread.

Quote: Malaru

and aparently i make for a great buzz kill for this thread. :)

Alas, no.

But it needs killing.

Quote: mkl654321

Since my score of 190 twenty years ago equates to a score of 150 today (as I explained elsewhere), it would probably be impossible to score 180 even if I got every single question correct--the scores don't go that high any more, because a different scale is used today.

Therefore I amend the challenge to read: I will score at either an IQ equivalent of 150, or the 99th percentile, whichever you prefer.

It appears that "lame excuse" is the winner!

Quote: CrappedOut

It appears that "lame excuse" is the winner!

If you were predisposed to reach that conclusion, then no amount of reality could convince you otherwise. If you had an IQ sufficient for the task, you would have realized why I modified the challenge once you read my post.

Quote: clarkacal

Since this post mkl has realized that although no one can say for sure that religion is the truth or superstition, it has been a very important aspect of human civilization that has directly or indirectly brought about some very significant, positive changes. See the "Are there ghosts?" thread.

Actually, I realized that a long, long time ago. War, famine, disease, and mass murder have also, directly or indirectly, brought about some very significant, positive changes. That doesn't mean that those things--or religion--were inherently positive in and of themselves.

Quote: mkl654321

If you were predisposed to reach that conclusion, then no amount of reality could convince you otherwise. If you had an IQ sufficient for the task, you would have realized why I modified the challenge once you read my post.

Seems as you called him dumb and that would be a personal insult

Quote: kracker21

Seems as you called him dumb and that would be a personal insult

Well, either his saying that I had given a "lame excuse" was an insult, in which case I was responding in kind, or he read my post and truly didn't comprehend why I modified the challenge, which means his intellect is lacking, since I didn't use any big words in explaining that.

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, I realized that a long, long time ago. War, famine, disease, and mass murder have also, directly or indirectly, brought about some very significant, positive changes. That doesn't mean that those things--or religion--were inherently positive in and of themselves.

Bravo I agree!

Quote: CrappedOut

It appears that "lame excuse" is the winner!

Like it wasn't a foregone conclusion. He'll always be Mr 190 to me.

Quote: EvenBob

Like it wasn't a foregone conclusion. He'll always be Mr 190 to me.

Since I did, in fact, accept the challenge, and made that very clear, only someone with a low IQ or bad reading comprehension could claim otherwise. Of course, Bob, you're smarter than that.

Quote: mkl654321

Since I did, in fact, accept the challenge,

Has it happened? Will it happen?

Foregone, like I said..

Quote: EvenBob

Has it happened? Will it happen?

Foregone, like I said..

Like you said, incorrectly. Admit it when you're wrong, Bob.

It isn't up to me where and when it will happen. Nightfly has accepted, but he and the Wiz are going to select the test, as well as the place and time where it will be administered. It's out of my hands for the time being.

Quote: mkl654321

Admit it when you're wrong, Bob.

.

Foregone...... You'll see.

Quote: EvenBob

Foregone...... You'll see.

Put some money where your mouth is, Bob. Otherwise, you're just prattling.

Nightfly and I have agreed on conditions. What you think or say means less than nothing.

All of these pages of talk about mkl and his IQ score are an example of how this forum has been hijacked by a few people. Just a few short months ago, there were interesting discussions of gambling odds, betting patterns, results, etc. There was even a good bit of disagreement between folks but it rarely got ugly. The overall theme of the board was Las Vegas; the overall discussion was about gambling. The threads took many directions, but the basic idea was the same. The only people that were subject to hostility were the ones who presented betting "systems" that were "proven" and refused to listen to the fact that the math was against them after their system was broken down and the flaws in it were explained.

Along come a few members who decide that they are better or smarter or richer than the rest of us and the board has gone to crap. Every thread that they post in becomes about them instead of the subject. This grows until whole threads become about them. What next? Their own category? Then we have contests to see which one of these folks can get banned the most/quickest/longest. All of this goes on while they contribute squat to the gaming/Las Vegas discussion. The board had become, well, all about them.

It isn't just one; one is no worse than the other. It is about the way they treat people. It is they way they treat each other. If you disagree, they don't just tell you they feel differently, they attack you.

I spend less time on this board than I have in the past. I don't post a lot, but I did start out reading and learning a lot. Now my visits here are just not as much fun. I don't know if JL is RS or if MKL has a 190 IQ. I don't care. I come here for good discussions of Vegas and gambling.

There is not an internet forum in the world that hasn't gone through this stage. Most even stay there.

Quote: P90

There is not an internet forum in the world that hasn't gone through this stage. Most even stay there.

I don't frequent any forums but I have heard others say similar things about them. What brings a forum back to a better state or keeps it from going downhill?

Quote: RonC

All of these pages of talk about mkl and his IQ score are an example of how this forum has been hijacked by a few people. Just a few short months ago, there were interesting discussions of gambling odds, betting patterns, results, etc. There was even a good bit of disagreement between folks but it rarely got ugly. The overall theme of the board was Las Vegas; the overall discussion was about gambling. The threads took many directions, but the basic idea was the same. The only people that were subject to hostility were the ones who presented betting "systems" that were "proven" and refused to listen to the fact that the math was against them after their system was broken down and the flaws in it were explained.

Along come a few members who decide that they are better or smarter or richer than the rest of us and the board has gone to crap. Every thread that they post in becomes about them instead of the subject. This grows until whole threads become about them. What next? Their own category? Then we have contests to see which one of these folks can get banned the most/quickest/longest. All of this goes on while they contribute squat to the gaming/Las Vegas discussion. The board had become, well, all about them.

It isn't just one; one is no worse than the other. It is about the way they treat people. It is they way they treat each other. If you disagree, they don't just tell you they feel differently, they attack you.

I spend less time on this board than I have in the past. I don't post a lot, but I did start out reading and learning a lot. Now my visits here are just not as much fun. I don't know if JL is RS or if MKL has a 190 IQ. I don't care. I come here for good discussions of Vegas and gambling.

+100^2.. Well said Ron and I agree completely with you. I know I'm a recent member, but I've been a daily lurker for well over a year. Long before JL came, and long before MLK came and racked up over 2700 posts in 5 months. The tone of the forum has changed, and well I just don't think there is anything you can do about it. The Wizard has tried so hard to keep the forum up to the standards of his readers/followers (selective blocking by users, adding sections, and numerous others requests by forum members that he graciously provided), and those actions should really appreciated more by certain people who like to troll, because its is rare for someone to be so accommodating. But in turn, these select few memebers have turned this forum into their kind of alter ego, celebrity status type deal, where the whole forum is now about them.

All the aforementioned and subsequent posting is just MHO... It's not a shot at anyone or anything its just my reasoning through my perspective. That being said I don't believe there is anything anyone can do, including the Wizard. If he starts banning people, different people will come along and we'll all go through this again, and again. It would be best if people could just ignore them, so the attention seeking posters will lose their sense of power and move on.. But I don't see that happening. I will still lurk from time to time, but I will read fewer and fewer threads, as threads become filled with greater amounts of BS. It seems like everything somehow gets turned into some b.s. pissing match about how MLK has an IQ of 2045, or JL has 56 billion dollars in the bank, or Joe Schmoe's wife is hotter than Megan Fox...and I just don't care to waste my time sifting through it. I have better things to do with my time....

/rant

Why then are you even in this post. Just by the title you can tell it is exactly what you describe. For the record there are a lot of posts on this thread. More posts = more hits and better advertising revenue for the Wiz. I see no reason in the world why he would want to reduce that at all. Just stick to the gambling related topics if you have a problem. I for one love the entertaining threads. I think they are a gas. I really wish JL and RS were not chased away from here. I think they add a lot of color and interesting arguments. Note I said interesting not necessarily accurate or true.

Quote: thlf

More posts = more hits and better advertising revenue for the Wiz.

There is no advertising on WoV.

Quote: Mosca

There is no advertising on WoV.

Actually there is a Bodog ad on the right side of the screen near the top. It's quite unobtrusive.

If ever there was a place for random proposition bets, a vegas/gambling forum would be it; I don't see the big offense. In fact I find the people here much more rational and civil than the flame wars you typicall see online.

Quote: pcket5s

+100^2.. Well said Ron and I agree completely with you. I know I'm a recent member, but I've been a daily lurker for well over a year. Long before JL came, and long before MLK came and racked up over 2700 posts in 5 months. The tone of the forum has changed, and well I just don't think there is anything you can do about it. The Wizard has tried so hard to keep the forum up to the standards of his readers/followers (selective blocking by users, adding sections, and numerous others requests by forum members that he graciously provided), and those actions should really appreciated more by certain people who like to troll, because its is rare for someone to be so accommodating. But in turn, these select few memebers have turned this forum into their kind of alter ego, celebrity status type deal, where the whole forum is now about them.

All the aforementioned and subsequent posting is just MHO... It's not a shot at anyone or anything its just my reasoning through my perspective. That being said I don't believe there is anything anyone can do, including the Wizard. If he starts banning people, different people will come along and we'll all go through this again, and again. It would be best if people could just ignore them, so the attention seeking posters will lose their sense of power and move on.. But I don't see that happening. I will still lurk from time to time, but I will read fewer and fewer threads, as threads become filled with greater amounts of BS. It seems like everything somehow gets turned into some b.s. pissing match about how MLK has an IQ of 2045, or JL has 56 billion dollars in the bank, or Joe Schmoe's wife is hotter than Megan Fox...and I just don't care to waste my time sifting through it. I have better things to do with my time....

/rant

Might I gently suggest that you simply read the title of a thread before you decide to go there? This particular thread, for example, has basically been about giving various members the excuse to throw shitbombs at me, so there isn't going to be much rational discussion about anything, let alone gambling (though the net effect of this thread, aside from giving some people an excuse to rave, is that the proposition bet proposed was indeed agreed upon).

There have been long, rambling threads about esoteric mathematical minutae, buying and selling souls, blackjack counting systems, etc. etc. etc. Sometimes those threads have to do with gambling, sometimes not. Sometimes they are entertaining, sometimes less so. Any member can choose to read them or not, participate or not. That's the beauty of the whole setup--it's a free discussion arena. Sure, we have had Rob Singer and JerryLogan trying to turn this forum into their own personal soapbox, espousing, respectively, a flawed video poker "system", and hatred of everybody else in the world. But as you note, that's the price you pay for that freedom.

I post here frequently. That's because I choose to, and you can speculate endlessly on "why", if you choose. I kind of resent the implication, though, that my participation here is just some kind of ego trip. But insinuations like that are just another part of the price we pay for freedom of expression. I, however, am not presumptuous enough to attempt to delve into the psyche of the various forum members and divine their hidden motivations for posted here, however much they do so--nor would any such idle speculations be of any value.

Lastly, I'd like to note that as a forum member, you have the ability to change that content that you so decry--post your OWN thread(s). At least, post on others' threads. Everyone here has the right to do that, and you probably have much to contribute. That's better than observing from without, and bemoaning what you see.

Some people are surrounded by so much brilliance that they can't even see the point. Yes, this particular thread is about one member, his IQ, and the question of whether he will prove himself or not. I chose this thread for a reason--it is already about one of the people I am speaking of and has been frequented by another one of them. I could have started a new thread, but I chose this one just as the other members choose to hijack thread after thread.

The bottom line is that when the few people who insist on being heard drown out everyone, the forum is not as enjoyable to read. There end up being way too many threads dissolving into nothing more than barbs being tossed at one another without regard to the original topic.

If these folks don't go away (or get banned),the board will likely see a decline in visitors. I already don't read it as much as I used to because there are less interesting threads. I ignore most threads like this, but these folks don't ignore the regular threads-they take their act into those, too.

Quote: RonC

If these folks don't go away (or get banned),the board will likely see a decline in visitors. I already don't read it as much as I used to because there are less interesting threads. I ignore most threads like this, but these folks don't ignore the regular threads-they take their act into those, too.

No quarrel with that. what you might want to do is block these troublesome users, and post either in threads you care about, or start new threads on a topic that interests you. If we get enough people to do that, we may not drown or drive out the others but we'll get some islands of good conversations at the least.

Quote: RonC

Some people are surrounded by so much brilliance that they can't even see the point. Yes, this particular thread is about one member, his IQ, and the question of whether he will prove himself or not. I chose this thread for a reason--it is already about one of the people I am speaking of and has been frequented by another one of them. I could have started a new thread, but I chose this one just as the other members choose to hijack thread after thread.

But, of course, the snarky comment that began your post is PERFECTLY OKAY in your eyes. Why IS that, a neutral observer might ask? The answer is: you feel it's okay because it was something YOU said, not that someone else had said--and therefore should be held to a different standard.

Quote: RonC

The bottom line is that when the few people who insist on being heard drown out everyone, the forum is not as enjoyable to read.

I think, MKL's point was that you don't have to read what you don't enjoy.
It's one thing when an otherwise interesting, on-topic thread gets hijacked by individuals, involved into childish argument of who has a bigger (whatever), and it is quite another, when you are talking about a whole separate thread (quite appropriately located in the "off-topic" section, btw) - I don't think you have anything whatsoever to complain about in this case.
Instead of wasting your time on reading and posting to a thread, that you, by your own admission, do not even enjoy, you could start or contribute to one or more on-topic threads in the other areas of the forum, yet you choose to post here (and in fact, that's all you've been posting this year). Why?

Quote: RonC

All of these pages of talk about mkl and his IQ score are an example of how this forum has been hijacked by a few people. Just a few short months ago, there were interesting discussions of gambling odds, betting patterns, results, etc. There was even a good bit of disagreement between folks but it rarely got ugly. The overall theme of the board was Las Vegas; the overall discussion was about gambling. The threads took many directions, but the basic idea was the same. The only people that were subject to hostility were the ones who presented betting "systems" that were "proven" and refused to listen to the fact that the math was against them after their system was broken down and the flaws in it were explained.

Along come a few members who decide that they are better or smarter or richer than the rest of us and the board has gone to crap. Every thread that they post in becomes about them instead of the subject. This grows until whole threads become about them. What next? Their own category? Then we have contests to see which one of these folks can get banned the most/quickest/longest. All of this goes on while they contribute squat to the gaming/Las Vegas discussion. The board had become, well, all about them.

It isn't just one; one is no worse than the other. It is about the way they treat people. It is they way they treat each other. If you disagree, they don't just tell you they feel differently, they attack you.

I spend less time on this board than I have in the past. I don't post a lot, but I did start out reading and learning a lot. Now my visits here are just not as much fun. I don't know if JL is RS or if MKL has a 190 IQ. I don't care. I come here for good discussions of Vegas and gambling.

Ditto.

Ever notice the people who complain the most have the least number of posts? They contribute almost nothing yet want to control everything. Good luck with that...

The direction that this thread has gone has prompted me to say a few things about the reason I posted it and where I'd like to see it end.

To begin, I agree with those who say that this site has taken a turn for the worse with all of the backbiting that goes on. I did not intend for this topic to be cluttered with personal attacks against anyone. I saw that mkl had challenged another member to a $100 wager regarding his IQ.

Quote: mkl654321

Don't be snotty, Bob. It was administered by the University of California at Berkeley as part of a placement exam. I also took the Armed Forces General Intelligence Test some ten years later. Each gave similar results. This was quite some time ago. I might score somewhat lower today, I don't know--the tests are different these days.

I would also be quite happy to take any general intelligence test you care to name, and I'm willing to bet you $100 that I score in the 99th percentile, or whatever score equates to an IQ of at least 180 (to allow for measuring error). Of course, you'll have to put your money where your mouth is before I bother to do that...

I am seldom one who passes up the opportunity to be on the good side of a bet so I proposed one of my own. I told mkl I'd put up $500, even money, that he would not achieve a score of 180 (as he had stated he would) on a standardized intelligence test. He then said that the original bet had been only $100 and that he would take the bet.

Quote: mkl654321

OK. You pick the test. You send the Wiz the money. When he acknowledges receiving it, I will do the same. However, I only offered to wager $100, so unless you're laying odds...

The test can be any one of a number of standard intelligence tests. To settle the bet, the test scores would have to be correlated against IQ score ranges.

I then posted this thread. mkl has subsequently recanted and said that his (one time) tested IQ of 190 would most likely have been achieved by taking a test which is no longer valid.

Quote: mkl654321

Since my score of 190 twenty years ago equates to a score of 150 today (as I explained elsewhere), it would probably be impossible to score 180 even if I got every single question correct--the scores don't go that high any more, because a different scale is used today.
Therefore I amend the challenge to read: I will score at either an IQ equivalent of 150, or the 99th percentile, whichever you prefer.

He went on to say the following:

Quote: mkl654321

I said I'd accept a goal of 150, and only use the 99th percentile if the test chosen (remember, it'll be chosen by someone else, not me) doesn't have an IQ correlation.

Quote: mkl654321

And I amended the challenge simply because it isn't POSSIBLE to score 180/190 on an IQ test any more.

Not being an expert on IQ tests I decided to use the mkl method and Google it. It turns out that indeed, a measurable IQ of 180 and up is possible today. There are a number of High IQ groups who have stricter membership requirements than MENSA and in order to gain entry into the fold an IQ of 164+ must be proven.

Prometheus Society is one such group as is Mega Society which requires a measured IQ of 172+. Here are two tests which have a ceiling of 180 or higher: Terman Concept Mastery (190) and Four Sigma Qualifying Test 4 (181). These next 5 tests have a ceiling above 170: Langdon Adult Intelligence Test 6 (176), Langdon Intellectual Gradient High-range Test 6 (173), Mega Test 5 (178), The Mobius Test 4 (175) and Titan Test (179) among others.

I'd say this puts to rest the notion that an IQ of 180 is no longer measurable.

I have accepted mkl's amended challenge nonetheless as I am fairly confident that he would no sooner score over 150 than he would 180.

I offer mkl the opportunity to view these two websites as examples of evidence that a measured IQ of well over 150 (180+ as a matter of fact) is achievable today. Then I suggest that he takes this opportunity to admit that for a second time he has been proven wrong. I will still go ahead with the challenge as it stands (IQ 150+) but I want it understood by mkl and anyone else who might be interested that mkl's assertion that he can't score 180+ on an IQ test today because a measurable IQ of 180 isn't possible is simply a figment of his colourful imagination or his ignorance of the facts.

I'm not suggesting that mkl isn't an intellgent and knowledgable fellow. I believe that he is. He does however fall into that category of people about whom I've heard it said, "If he was half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he is". Take away his thesaurus and Wikipedia and I'm very interested to see what he's got... so interested in fact that I have $100 on the line. Not that $100 is much - nothing more than a pre-flop raise - but it's all about the gamble, isn't it?

This thread was simply a challenge to mkl for him to back up his words with his cash. Whatever it may have become it is nothing more than a bet between gentlemen. This is a gambling website is it not? I do not revel in demeaning people but I do so enjoy taking their money. If he doesn't mind eating a little crow along the way (due to his own unfortunate failure to think [or Google] before he spoke), then we can begin. I'll PM the Wizard about how we should proceed, send him my $100 and then let mkl prove one of us to be wrong.

}I'd say this puts to rest the notion that an IQ of 180 is no longer measurable.{

You're right, I looked it up last week and forgot to post it. Hey, make him go for the 190, its only fair.

If this is a gentlemen's bet, then please act like a gentleman, and stop indulging your urge to throw in little digs and jabs.

Only a standardized test would have any validity. The scoring scale of those esoteric tests hasn't been validated. In any case, the public can't take them.

And insofar as we have agreed on the 150 scoring threshold, why are you bothering to discuss the existence of tests that purportedly meet that earlier, higher threshold? I found half a dozen "IQ tests" on the internet that return an "IQ score" up to a range of 230 or higher. You would say they weren't valid, I suspect. I realize, of course, that you're trying to make a point at my expense--but after you clap yourself on the back, we should probably discuss the actual matter at hand.

I'm not going to "eat a little crow along the way", as you put it. Either stop with the bullshit little insults and jabs or the bet is off. EvenBob and all the other clowns who attack me at every opportunity can then have a field day bleating and chirping; I don't care. I have nothing to prove to them, to you, or to myself. My accomplishments speak to my intelligence more than any stupid "IQ" test would.

In short, behave like the "gentleman" you claim to be and we'll go through with the challenge as previously agreed.

Quote: mkl654321

But, of course, the snarky comment that began your post is PERFECTLY OKAY in your eyes. Why IS that, a neutral observer might ask? The answer is: you feel it's okay because it was something YOU said, not that someone else had said--and therefore should be held to a different standard.

I did in this thread the very same thing you do in so many other threads--that was part of the point. This thread is about a bet that you made. I took it off course and made a snarky comment about you just as you have in many, many other threads. Once you get the train headed off the track, it keeps on going. The snarky comment is addressed and then another one made and the thread never gets back to the original subject. The folks that do this, not just you, seem more interested in what they can say to, or about, each other.

I should not be held to a different standard. The problem is that we have to police ourselves a bit by trying not to hijack threads and not make comments that go after a person more than addressing the situation. Some of us will do that--I have made my point, I won't do it the same way again--and some will go on being prolific posters with some great comments and a whole lot of garbage. I will also ignore threads like this, but the problem is that too many "regular" threads get taken off track by the same folks each time.

Am I talking about a thread that changes topics a bit over time? No. I am specifically addressing ones that turn into urination contests and follow a straight track downhill.

With that, I hope you can take this thread back on track and address the bet. I've had my say, I am sure you'll have something to say back to me, but I am finished with the issue. It is up to the Wizard and mods to fix it if it is truly causing many members a problem.

Quote: mkl654321

Only a standardized test would have any validity. The scoring scale of those esoteric tests hasn't been validated. In any case, the public can't take them.

In that event, please name the standardized test or tests to which you are referring.

Quote: SanchoPanza

In that event, please name the standardized test or tests to which you are referring.

Any one of the tests I mentioned is by definition a standardized test. It has been agreed that the Wizard will choose the test anyway so whatever test mkl might find to his liking or call "esoteric" is irrelevant. The members of the societies I mentioned may be in somewhat rarefied air regarding their IQ scores but the idea that being in a group that values a high IQ or that is interested in high IQ or that because the tests they've taken as entry exams can't be found using Google makes such tests esoteric is simply not the case. On that note mkl, why don't you at least wait until the test has been chosen before you call foul or are you simply planning an escape route beforehand? Not a dig, just a question.

Quote: TheNightfly

Any one of the tests I mentioned is by definition a standardized test.

It sounds like you guys need to agree on the meaning of the term "IQ" test first :)
There are many standardized tests, that aren't measuring IQ in a generally accepted sense of the word, even if they have to do with scoring one's reasoning skills.

SAT for example is (highly) standardized, and you can score up to 2400 on it. If you score 1560 or higher, you can also be admitted to the Prometheus Society, that, btw, never positioned itself as a society of people with high IQ, AFAIK, but rather as a "small group of persons who have demonstrated a high level of cognitive ability."

Quote: weaselman

It sounds like you guys need to agree on the meaning of the term "IQ" test first :)
There are many standardized tests, that aren't measuring IQ in a generally accepted sense of the word, even if they have to do with scoring one's reasoning skills.

SAT for example is (highly) standardized, and you can score up to 2400 on it. If you score 1560 or higher, you can also be admitted to the Prometheus Society, that, btw, never positioned itself as a society of people with high IQ, AFAIK, but rather as a "small group of persons who have demonstrated a high level of cognitive ability."

I was just looking at the Prometheus Society's website. The 1560 qualifying SAT score is based on the old SAT where the top score was 1600. 1560 corresponds to getting two questions wrong on the whole test.

This page
http://www.prometheussociety.org/membership/index.html#SumCha
lists a variety of tests and their corresponding 99.9 percentile scores. If nothing else, that table shows how widely variable the scores can be which reflect the same putative level of intelligence. That said, the majority of the IQ-type tests, vs. college or graduate admissions tests, seem to approximate a score of 150 for the 99.9th percentile -- if that chart is accurate.

Quote: MathExtremist

I was just looking at the Prometheus Society's website. The 1560 qualifying SAT score is based on the old SAT where the top score was 1600. 1560 corresponds to getting two questions wrong on the whole test.

That's fine. My point was not that it is easy to qualify for the membership in that fine society, but that it is quite easy to score 190 points on the SAT test.

Quote: TheNightfly

Any one of the tests I mentioned is by definition a standardized test. It has been agreed that the Wizard will choose the test anyway so whatever test mkl might find to his liking or call "esoteric" is irrelevant. The members of the societies I mentioned may be in somewhat rarefied air regarding their IQ scores but the idea that being in a group that values a high IQ or that is interested in high IQ or that because the tests they've taken as entry exams can't be found using Google makes such tests esoteric is simply not the case. On that note mkl, why don't you at least wait until the test has been chosen before you call foul or are you simply planning an escape route beforehand? Not a dig, just a question.

Actually, it was a dig AND a question, but I'll ignore the dig and answer the question (I do wish you'd resist the urge to do the former, but that seems to be outside your skill set). A test constructed for the purpose of admission into some ultra-exclusive club isn't going to have been given to enough people to validate any "IQ scale" it may purport to have. In any case, if the Wiz is choosing the test, I'm sure it'll be a fair one, as well as a widely known one, not the Super Duper Knowledge Test For Admission Into the Brotherhood Of the Pink Dragon or something like that.

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, it was a dig AND a question, but I'll ignore the dig and answer the question (I do wish you'd resist the urge to do the former, but that seems to be outside your skill set).

People who live in glass pots should not throw stones at black kettles. Or something like that.

Quote: MathExtremist

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, it was a dig AND a question, but I'll ignore the dig and answer the question (I do wish you'd resist the urge to do the former, but that seems to be outside your skill set).

People who live in glass pots should not throw stones at black kettles. Or something like that.

MLK loves to pull the victim card, but he can't help tossing insults along with it.

Quote: MathExtremist

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, it was a dig AND a question, but I'll ignore the dig and answer the question (I do wish you'd resist the urge to do the former, but that seems to be outside your skill set).

People who live in glass pots should not throw stones at black kettles. Or something like that.

I knew somebody would fasten on that!

It's not an insult (or a "dig") if it's true. It truly IS outside his skill set. He literally can't resist. Every single one of his posts on this thread addressed to me has contained some little snide remark, usually more than one.

Quote: mkl654321

Quote: MathExtremist

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, it was a dig AND a question, but I'll ignore the dig and answer the question (I do wish you'd resist the urge to do the former, but that seems to be outside your skill set).

People who live in glass pots should not throw stones at black kettles. Or something like that.

I knew somebody would fasten on that!

It's not an insult (or a "dig") if it's true. It truly IS outside his skill set. He literally can't resist. Every single one of his posts on this thread addressed to me has contained some little snide remark, usually more than one.

Actually it can be an insult, even if it is true. Calling someone a Bastard maybe the truth, but it's still insulting. Calling someone who has sex with dogs a dogf***ker is insulting, but also true. Calling someone who revels in their own victimhood "a whiny little git" maybe the truth, but also still insulting.

In fact, the best insults, the really cutting ones that hit home hard and fast and leave the victim smarting... they have a large element of truth in them. You can send them out in a mean, hurtful way (see this forum) or a semi-humorous way (see Don Rickles).

Quote: mkl654321

It's not an insult (or a "dig") if it's true. It truly IS outside his skill set. He literally can't resist. Every single one of his posts on this thread addressed to me has contained some little snide remark, usually more than one.

Of course it's an insult - that's how you meant it, and that's how it came across. Truth has nothing to do with whether a verbal barb is an insult.

But that's beside the point. If you're going to take someone to task for verbal barbs, you should at least have the common sense to expect inordinate push-back when you do the same.

Quote: MathExtremist

Of course it's an insult - that's how you meant it, and that's how it came across. Truth has nothing to do with whether a verbal barb is an insult.

But that's beside the point. If you're going to take someone to task for verbal barbs, you should at least have the common sense to expect inordinate push-back when you do the same.

I consider that firing BACK isn't the same thing at all as firing the first shot. I get subjected to the same double standard ALL the time--I respond to shit being flung at me, and what gets paid attention to is whatever I fling back. In the specific case of NightFly, I don't like his tone, his attitude, or his manner. But I've dealt with him on an evenhanded basis, and I haven't (until now) made any personal insinuations about him.

Why isn't anybody using their moral high ground to get on NightFly's case? Could it be that everybody thinks that Person B attacking Person A is perfectly OK, but Person A retaliating is not? NAAAAAAH!!!! No one could POSSIBLY be that hypocritical!

(In any case, why are you on your white charger to defend the noble virtue of the sullied NightFly? He seems perfectly capable of defending himself.)

Quote: mkl654321

A test constructed for the purpose of admission into some ultra-exclusive club isn't going to have been given to enough people to validate any "IQ scale" it may purport to have.

The standard literature in the field of IQ testing is abundantly clear that scores of 150 and above cannot be valid indicators of minute gradations because of the infinitesimal number of people at that level. Not to mention 190.

Quote: mkl654321

I consider that firing BACK isn't the same thing at all as firing the first shot. ...

This type of conflict seems to come up quite often these days in this forum. I posted my opinion of it back here three weeks ago.

Quote: SanchoPanza

The standard literature in the field of IQ testing is abundantly clear that scores of 150 and above cannot be valid indicators of minute gradations because of the infinitesimal number of people at that level. Not to mention 190.

Isn't it what mkl was saying all along in this thread?

Quote: mkl654321

(In any case, why are you on your white charger to defend the noble virtue of the sullied NightFly?

I'm not, and nothing in my messages can reasonably be construed that way. I just think you'd make your point in a more credible fashion if you didn't decry certain behavior while displaying that behavior yourself. But your credibility isn't really up to me, and besides, my white charger is still up on blocks.

Quote: mkl654321

I consider that firing BACK isn't the same thing at all as firing the first shot. I get subjected to the same double standard ALL the time--I respond to shit being flung at me, and what gets paid attention to is whatever I fling back. In the specific case of NightFly, I don't like his tone, his attitude, or his manner. But I've dealt with him on an evenhanded basis, and I haven't (until now) made any personal insinuations about him.

Why isn't anybody using their moral high ground to get on NightFly's case? Could it be that everybody thinks that Person B attacking Person A is perfectly OK, but Person A retaliating is not? NAAAAAAH!!!! No one could POSSIBLY be that hypocritical!

(In any case, why are you on your white charger to defend the noble virtue of the sullied NightFly? He seems perfectly capable of defending himself.)

I'll use my moral high ground. I've made snide remarks about mkl that were unneccesary. I apologize to mkl for being rude. I don't like to see people make rude and nasty comments to one another on this site and I accept that I have been as guilty of this as the next person. I'll take steps to clean up my act. Sorry to any and all I've offended.